Look What They Have Done To Our Dogs.

[Bjelkier]

IMO 'show' is about 'community'. A lot more happens (or should happen) outside the ring that in. It is a place to start (or continue) to make contacts (not just in your own breed) to help develop skills which allow the objective choice of breeding stock. It is about not breeding in a vaccum. The winning is just the 'side bar' really. In the end though the experience anyone gets out of it is what they make of it, the opportunities they seek out and who they choose to listen to or associate with along the way as well as how caught up they get in the 'compeition' side of the activity. JMHO.

I like how you've worded that Espinay. Well said

[hortfurball]

So how do you explain the fact that sometimes dogs which are not champions are used for breeding by those who show?

I don't show but that doesn't mean I cant have a method of ensuring I'm breeding within the standard and most often using champions to breed with to breed champions I don't show personally.

Easy - the dog has characteristics desirable in the breeding program, whether it's a champion or not. Sometimes you might have a dog that, while not champion material in itself, has traits that will counter shortcomings in a line, and hopefully the pups will be an improved version due to this new blood. Anyway, figured that particular question was mostly aimed at me, but I'm really no expert, so will bow out of this particular debate. :)

[Steve]

So how do you explain the fact that sometimes dogs which are not champions are used for breeding by those who show?

I don't show but that doesn't mean I cant have a method of ensuring I'm breeding within the standard and most often using champions to breed with to breed champions I don't show personally.

Easy - the dog has characteristics desirable in the breeding program, whether it's a champion or not. Sometimes you might have a dog that, while not champion material in itself, has traits that will counter shortcomings in a line, and hopefully the pups will be an improved version due to this new blood. Anyway, figured that particular question was mostly aimed at me, but I'm really no expert, so will bow out of this particular debate. :)

yep it was aimed at you and I think you're right in theory - just not convinced in practice its been the best method of selection.

[pebbles]

Or perhaps the dog/bitch has sustained an injury which keeps it out of the ring?

[hortfurball]

So how do you explain the fact that sometimes dogs which are not champions are used for breeding by those who show?

I don't show but that doesn't mean I cant have a method of ensuring I'm breeding within the standard and most often using champions to breed with to breed champions I don't show personally.

Easy - the dog has characteristics desirable in the breeding program, whether it's a champion or not. Sometimes you might have a dog that, while not champion material in itself, has traits that will counter shortcomings in a line, and hopefully the pups will be an improved version due to this new blood. Anyway, figured that particular question was mostly aimed at me, but I'm really no expert, so will bow out of this particular debate. :)

yep it was aimed at you and I think you're right in theory - just not convinced in practice its been the best method of selection.

Nor am I, if you read my previous posts that would be clear. :) The theory is a good one, but interpretation can sway things, but then I'm not convinced breeding to your own judgment solely (with no peer group input/discussion/debate) is the answer either. Please note this is a generalised statement and not aimed at any individual.

[minimax]

As a random (yet somewhat educated) person looking for a pedigree pet dog, I was 'taught' to be somewhat suspicious of a breeder who does not show, at least occasionally. Oddly enough, having their dogs winning doesn't come into the equation, it seems to merely be the attendance at shows that ticks the right boxes.

[moosmum]

IMO 'show' is about 'community'. A lot more happens (or should happen) outside the ring that in. It is a place to start (or continue) to make contacts (not just in your own breed) to help develop skills which allow the objective choice of breeding stock. It is about not breeding in a vaccum. The winning is just the 'side bar' really. In the end though the experience anyone gets out of it is what they make of it, the opportunities they seek out and who they choose to listen to or associate with along the way as well as how caught up they get in the 'compeition' side of the activity. JMHO.

This.

I no longer show my horses,but its in my own interest to show again when circumstances are better.

The culture is different,with no pressure to show,but if people don't know my horses,no matter how good they are,they won't come looking here. (or dogs,I assume the principles are the same).

We don't tell new comers to be wary of those who don't show.We advise that they take along an experienced person whos judgement they have confidence in.

I can't say my horses are supreme champions.I have confidence in my ability to make my OWN judgements,for my own reasons.I KNOW that none of my horses will be out of place at the nationals,or royal shows.Though I have very small numbers bred or sold a year,I believe all that have gone to show homes have won at least one supreme champion.

Otherwise,I would be unknown.I can still get by not showing myself while "Big names" are successfully showing with horses THEY bought in confidence.

The only buyers though are going to be others with the same confidence in their own judgement.

IMO There should be no stigma attached if you don't show.I've seen a few judgements that were very wrong,but for the most part a good judge can usually explain why they made a call,and often teach you something new .Its a big part of how I learned to judge for myself.Meeting and talking to others and learning to compare every thing to see where you yourself can improve.Play find the fault on the best. :D

I still go as a spectator to shows(Dog shows too). You can often learn more ringside than in it anyway,(but kennel or stable)blindness is going to affect your choices if you can't make an effort to compare,honestly and harshly.Shows can teach how to do that,even if its just being a critic with other spectators.

Show wins don't mean I should get some of that.Most often not.

Edited January 4, 2013 by moosmum