Greylvr Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 That is garbage SD, there has been no rubbishing of people who choose to source their dog from rescue. You'll actually find that a lot of people who have registered dogs also have rescues or have in the past. It's the nonsense about don't buy or a dog dies garbage. If you read the posts before actually posting you might notice that. But I never said that what I said was twisted into it. I said people may want to adopt because if they dont that dog will die it was twisted to say if you buy a dog from a breeder a shelter dog dies I NEVER said that. See so there were no AR rubbish coming from any one until someone tool something and twisted it into AR rubbish. still trying to guilt people into buying a dog that may not be suitable for them No I dont tell people that lol I am saying SOME PEOPLE MAY WANT TO ON THEIR OWN FREE WILL are you guys really this thick or are you jsut trying to entertain yourself tonight by picking fights? Lots of people know that dogs in shelters dont find homes and get put to sleep so they choose to adopt how is that wrong? Just like lots of people want a papered purebred dog and buy from a breeder people will do what they want to do. Your not going to convince someone who wants a pedigreed dog to adopt no matter how much your pour on the guilt, just like some people hate breeders and wont ever buy a dog from one no matter how much you explain or educate about breeders. Everyone has a right to get their dogs from where they feel comfortable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 That is garbage SD, there has been no rubbishing of people who choose to source their dog from rescue. You'll actually find that a lot of people who have registered dogs also have rescues or have in the past. It's the nonsense about don't buy or a dog dies garbage. If you read the posts before actually posting you might notice that. But I never said that what I said was twisted into it. I said people may want to adopt because if they dont that dog will die it was twisted to say if you buy a dog from a breeder a shelter dog dies I NEVER said that. See so there were no AR rubbish coming from any one until someone tool something and twisted it into AR rubbish. still trying to guilt people into buying a dog that may not be suitable for them No I dont tell people that lol I am saying SOME PEOPLE MAY WANT TO ON THEIR OWN FREE WILL are you guys really this thick or are you jsut trying to entertain yourself tonight by picking fights? Lots of people know that dogs in shelters dont find homes and get put to sleep so they choose to adopt how is that wrong? Just like lots of people want a papered purebred dog and buy from a breeder people will do what they want to do. Your not going to convince someone who wants a pedigreed dog to adopt no matter how much your pour on the guilt, just like some people hate breeders and wont ever buy a dog from one no matter how much you explain or educate about breeders. Everyone has a right to get their dogs from where they feel comfortable. funny how you adopt from a pound/shelter but buy from a breeder. It's one and the same thing, choosing a dog and paying for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staffydave Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 (edited) ha ha its pritty funny on here sometimes. Damn my PETA cover has been blown shouldnt have done those naked ads Edited December 31, 2012 by staffydave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 No I dont tell people that lol I am saying SOME PEOPLE MAY WANT TO ON THEIR OWN FREE WILL are you guys really this thick or are you jsut trying to entertain yourself tonight by picking fights? Lots of people know that dogs in shelters dont find homes and get put to sleep so they choose to adopt how is that wrong? Just like lots of people want a papered purebred dog and buy from a breeder people will do what they want to do. Your not going to convince someone who wants a pedigreed dog to adopt no matter how much your pour on the guilt, just like some people hate breeders and wont ever buy a dog from one no matter how much you explain or educate about breeders. Everyone has a right to get their dogs from where they feel comfortable. Well, Rebanne has a good point here. You still pay for dogs from pounds and rescue, do you not? Why is the language different? I'm not having a go at you here but it's interesting that it is different and it's only been different in recent years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 The next dog I adopt will be a mains registered Anatolian or pug :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staffydave Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 fair point sheridan you are right you are purchasing the dog in both instances no argument here . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 fair point sheridan you are right you are purchasing the dog in both instances no argument here . It was actually Rebanne's point first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WExtremeG Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 If you want a Staffy a GSD or Lab maybe a whippet all good but try going shopping for another breed especially if you are not in with the in crowd or its a new breed for you and you want a main register...worse if you want a female... I could understand if you had a bad reputation (google is wondrous!) and/or were not a current financial member of your dog controlling body of your state. Not saying any of those apply to you- sometimes breeders only can go by their 'gut' feelings- or all maybe good but the breeder is wanting to keep the pick bitch for themselves. In my last litter I wouldn't sell a bitch puppy to someone cause they already had a bitch(desexed). Fairly new dog owners but I did sell let them adopt a male. yep, can understand- bitches can certainly get nasty with each other- this wasn't just about the sex though- it was about also being on the main register I was talking about main register dogs. ah okay. I was lucky enough to have been introduced to pedigree dogs by my mother who taught me a lot that I might not have normally known. I always find it strange that main register entire dogs (and bitches) are offered to people who have no interest in showing or other ANKC events. To me it seems a bit of a waste or an excellent opportunity for the unscrupulous buyer - who can then advertise litters with a 'main pedigree parent'. I've seen enough of your posts though, to know you'd never sell knowingly to such a person. My point to Joany was that breeders may have very good reason- as you did. (: Thank you :) The dog was shown and titled by his new owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelsquest Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 That is garbage SD, there has been no rubbishing of people who choose to source their dog from rescue. You'll actually find that a lot of people who have registered dogs also have rescues or have in the past. It's the nonsense about don't buy or a dog dies garbage. If you read the posts before actually posting you might notice that. But I never said that what I said was twisted into it. I said people may want to adopt because if they dont that dog will die it was twisted to say if you buy a dog from a breeder a shelter dog dies I NEVER said that. See so there were no AR rubbish coming from any one until someone tool something and twisted it into AR rubbish. Why assume the post was about you? I'm not going back through all the pages of this thread, but the "don't breed or buy while a shelter dog dies" was certainly brought up, and not initially by you from memory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greylvr Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 No I dont tell people that lol I am saying SOME PEOPLE MAY WANT TO ON THEIR OWN FREE WILL are you guys really this thick or are you jsut trying to entertain yourself tonight by picking fights? Lots of people know that dogs in shelters dont find homes and get put to sleep so they choose to adopt how is that wrong? Just like lots of people want a papered purebred dog and buy from a breeder people will do what they want to do. Your not going to convince someone who wants a pedigreed dog to adopt no matter how much your pour on the guilt, just like some people hate breeders and wont ever buy a dog from one no matter how much you explain or educate about breeders. Everyone has a right to get their dogs from where they feel comfortable. Well, Rebanne has a good point here. You still pay for dogs from pounds and rescue, do you not? Why is the language different? I'm not having a go at you here but it's interesting that it is different and it's only been different in recent years. No that is true, I guess society has used those words for those types is all. That is garbage SD, there has been no rubbishing of people who choose to source their dog from rescue. You'll actually find that a lot of people who have registered dogs also have rescues or have in the past. It's the nonsense about don't buy or a dog dies garbage. If you read the posts before actually posting you might notice that. But I never said that what I said was twisted into it. I said people may want to adopt because if they dont that dog will die it was twisted to say if you buy a dog from a breeder a shelter dog dies I NEVER said that. See so there were no AR rubbish coming from any one until someone tool something and twisted it into AR rubbish. Why assume the post was about you? I'm not going back through all the pages of this thread, but the "don't breed or buy while a shelter dog dies" was certainly brought up, and not initially by you from memory. Because I was quoted and told not to bring that AR shit here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelsquest Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 That is garbage SD, there has been no rubbishing of people who choose to source their dog from rescue. You'll actually find that a lot of people who have registered dogs also have rescues or have in the past. It's the nonsense about don't buy or a dog dies garbage. If you read the posts before actually posting you might notice that. But I never said that what I said was twisted into it. I said people may want to adopt because if they dont that dog will die it was twisted to say if you buy a dog from a breeder a shelter dog dies I NEVER said that. See so there were no AR rubbish coming from any one until someone tool something and twisted it into AR rubbish. Why assume the post was about you? I'm not going back through all the pages of this thread, but the "don't breed or buy while a shelter dog dies" was certainly brought up, and not initially by you from memory. Because I was quoted and told not to bring that AR shit here Quoted by who?? You quoted Rev Jo, who did not quote you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 No I dont tell people that lol I am saying SOME PEOPLE MAY WANT TO ON THEIR OWN FREE WILL are you guys really this thick or are you jsut trying to entertain yourself tonight by picking fights? Lots of people know that dogs in shelters dont find homes and get put to sleep so they choose to adopt how is that wrong? Just like lots of people want a papered purebred dog and buy from a breeder people will do what they want to do. Your not going to convince someone who wants a pedigreed dog to adopt no matter how much your pour on the guilt, just like some people hate breeders and wont ever buy a dog from one no matter how much you explain or educate about breeders. Everyone has a right to get their dogs from where they feel comfortable. Well, Rebanne has a good point here. You still pay for dogs from pounds and rescue, do you not? Why is the language different? I'm not having a go at you here but it's interesting that it is different and it's only been different in recent years. No that is true, I guess society has used those words for those types is all. That is garbage SD, there has been no rubbishing of people who choose to source their dog from rescue. You'll actually find that a lot of people who have registered dogs also have rescues or have in the past. It's the nonsense about don't buy or a dog dies garbage. If you read the posts before actually posting you might notice that. But I never said that what I said was twisted into it. I said people may want to adopt because if they dont that dog will die it was twisted to say if you buy a dog from a breeder a shelter dog dies I NEVER said that. See so there were no AR rubbish coming from any one until someone tool something and twisted it into AR rubbish. Why assume the post was about you? I'm not going back through all the pages of this thread, but the "don't breed or buy while a shelter dog dies" was certainly brought up, and not initially by you from memory. Because I was quoted and told not to bring that AR shit here Where, I just looked back to page 23 and can't see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greylvr Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 sorry not quoted but here is what I was saying Look What They Have Done To Our Dogs. Short video#331 tdierikx DOL Dissident & Dog Lover Posts:9,544 Joined:27-April 08 Location:Sydney, Australia State:NSW Posted 30 December 2012 - 05:45 PM May I interject here and state categorically that not all people in rescue share the same views as the vocal minority? Greylvr - may I suggest that given the fact that you are posting on a PUREBREED dog forum, that maybe you could tone down the emotive AR sounding rhetoric... or at least save it for the Rescue forums where the rules are a little more relaxed due to the nature of all things rescue... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 No I dont tell people that lol I am saying SOME PEOPLE MAY WANT TO ON THEIR OWN FREE WILL are you guys really this thick or are you jsut trying to entertain yourself tonight by picking fights? Lots of people know that dogs in shelters dont find homes and get put to sleep so they choose to adopt how is that wrong? Just like lots of people want a papered purebred dog and buy from a breeder people will do what they want to do. Your not going to convince someone who wants a pedigreed dog to adopt no matter how much your pour on the guilt, just like some people hate breeders and wont ever buy a dog from one no matter how much you explain or educate about breeders. Everyone has a right to get their dogs from where they feel comfortable. Well, Rebanne has a good point here. You still pay for dogs from pounds and rescue, do you not? Why is the language different? I'm not having a go at you here but it's interesting that it is different and it's only been different in recent years. No that is true, I guess society has used those words for those types is all. That is garbage SD, there has been no rubbishing of people who choose to source their dog from rescue. You'll actually find that a lot of people who have registered dogs also have rescues or have in the past. It's the nonsense about don't buy or a dog dies garbage. If you read the posts before actually posting you might notice that. But I never said that what I said was twisted into it. I said people may want to adopt because if they dont that dog will die it was twisted to say if you buy a dog from a breeder a shelter dog dies I NEVER said that. See so there were no AR rubbish coming from any one until someone tool something and twisted it into AR rubbish. Why assume the post was about you? I'm not going back through all the pages of this thread, but the "don't breed or buy while a shelter dog dies" was certainly brought up, and not initially by you from memory. Because I was quoted and told not to bring that AR shit here Where, I just looked back to page 23 and can't see it. sorry not quoted but here is what I was saying Look What They Have Done To Our Dogs. Short video#331 tdierikx DOL Dissident & Dog Lover Posts:9,544 Joined:27-April 08 Location:Sydney, Australia State:NSW Posted 30 December 2012 - 05:45 PM May I interject here and state categorically that not all people in rescue share the same views as the vocal minority? Greylvr - may I suggest that given the fact that you are posting on a PUREBREED dog forum, that maybe you could tone down the emotive AR sounding rhetoric... or at least save it for the Rescue forums where the rules are a little more relaxed due to the nature of all things rescue... What tdierikx actually said is very different to Because I was quoted and told not to bring that AR shit here. She actually was quite polite about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Because I was quoted and told not to bring that AR shit here Where, I just looked back to page 23 and can't see it. sorry not quoted but here is what I was saying Look What They Have Done To Our Dogs. Short video#331 tdierikx DOL Dissident & Dog Lover Posts:9,544 Joined:27-April 08 Location:Sydney, Australia State:NSW Posted 30 December 2012 - 05:45 PM May I interject here and state categorically that not all people in rescue share the same views as the vocal minority? Greylvr - may I suggest that given the fact that you are posting on a PUREBREED dog forum, that maybe you could tone down the emotive AR sounding rhetoric... or at least save it for the Rescue forums where the rules are a little more relaxed due to the nature of all things rescue... What tdierikx actually said is very different to Because I was quoted and told not to bring that AR shit here. She actually was quite polite about it. yeah but it sounds better Greylvr's way :rofl: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Another reminder... this is a PUREBREED dog forum... and they let us involved in rescue play here as long as we are civil. Oh - and respect is a two way street - if you'd like people to show it to you, then you need to show them a bit yourself... Coming on here and spouting that AR shite isn't doing some any favours. As for the PB people who hold their own strong views about this topic, they may have some very good reasons to do so, and to vilify them about it rather than engaging in a civilised debate makes you look quite silly really... T. Actually - I did refer to certain parts of this debate as "AR shite"... but I don't see where I actually "accused" a particular person of doing it... *grin* What I directed at Greylvr personally, was the fact that she has used emotive AR sounding rhetoric in a number of her posts in this debate... which is actually a little different when you take both of the posts I have made in their correct (read having literacy skills above those of a flea) context. You want to know something Greylvr? EVERY single person participating in this debate knows EXACTLY what happens to unwanted dogs in pounds... so you really don't have to preach to the choir on that point either. The trick to a good debate is exploring all sides of the argument and educating oneself about the many different points of view about a particular subject. Screaming from the rooftops that YOUR point of view is the only "right" one wears a bit thin, and people actually tend to switch off and not even bother considering that side of the debate... but well thought out and carefully considered replies as to WHY you hold your particular point of view actually ADDS something to the debate instead of turning it into a slanging match. The other trick to participating in a good debate is actually READING and UNDERSTANDING exactly what is being said... grabbing snippets of posts and trying to claim persecution is a tactic reserved for those with closed minds. I'm sure my contributions to this thread have caused many more people than yourself to feel that I've been "mean" to them, or not understood their particular views on the topic - but you are the only one who is taking it all as an attack on you personally. I assure you that is not the case... I am simply exploring the many facets of the debate, and if my telling you that you need to find a better way to convince me of your point of view is upsetting you, then maybe you need to try a more reasoned approach to your replies, no? Quite frankly, I'm enjoying the great - and for the most part - civilised debate we are all having here on this particular topic... let's keep it like that, OK? T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espinay2 Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 I'm not arguing that breeders aren't looking for the best homes for their pups/dogs Bjelkier - but I am querying whether those who sourced their first pedigreed dogs as novice owners ever felt that were looked upon with the same suspicion as they now look upon prospective pet owners.I'm thinking that there looks to be a whole lot more distrust of the buying public now than there used to be many moons ago. T. Absolutely, I can still remember the day vividly, although there was cups of tea and biscuits provided, there was still an inquisition. I can remember even getting dressed that day and hoping that I'd chosen then right thing LOL Almost 20 years ago, and yes I clearly remember getting the third degree and having to answer LOTS of questions :laugh: . At that point I was just buying a pet too. Just wanted a purebred bitch and wasn't interested in papers as such (at that point is was main or nothing for pets and she came with none - just a handwritten copy of her pedigree). I got the same third degree from a different breeder about a year later when I was looking for a main register bitch. Once I 'passed the test' all was good and we became great friends. I have been patient and was prepared to wait for the right dog though. Some people aren't and want the dog right then. Unfortunately in some smaller numbered breeds, waiting is something that may have to be done. I do understand some people frustration with waiting though. But there is a fine line with some breeds that require a certain type of owner between too many pups to place and not enough to fill requirements. It can be boom or bust sometimes so breeding more to have one available for a few homes that want one now just doesn't really work well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy46 Posted January 1, 2013 Author Share Posted January 1, 2013 (edited) So having stated our requirements for potential owners, argued about Pure breed opposed to rescue, we have very effectively stuck our head in the sand and not really addressed the real issue. There is a concerted campaign out there to make show dog breeders and pure breeds look bad, we are accused of breeding for extremes so we get show quality, by our own admission we only get one or two "Show quality" pups from a litter. That is being used against us. As is the medical problems of some breeds. There is a very concerted campaign in the public face to turn the public towards "Designer dogs" They are quoting vet scientists who have made a study of genetics and DNA and can prove our pure breeds come from relatively small gene pools. ie King Charles, supposedly a gene pool of 6 dogs. While "Designer dogs" are healthy, strong dogs featuring the best of two breeds without the problems of either. The biggest problem is that there are some big commercial interests backing some of these puppy farms. They were the target for AR for a while and some of the smaller ones still are but the big commercial interests keep a low profile, have reasonable conditions and are going to be hard to get rid of. But they are quietly throwing lots of money at telling the public how wonderful they are. Money going into so called scientific research to get books published listing the bad points of pure breeds and advocating cross breeding to improve the dog. Look at John Bradshaws book Dog Sense. It is there it is subtle but it mentions it on a few occasions. Slowly but surely it will erode our position as "Setting the Standard" to the point where we are the bad guys. More and more we are becoming a target, do not think that you are immune to a few AR people sneaking onto your property and taking video of your dogs. Many of them are well intentioned fanatics, easily pumped up to believe what they are told and as we have seen recently only one bad thing on Utube is enough to case a lot of grief to people. AR exists on donations, if you think that certain commercial interests don't donate then you live in an ideal world. Defending our position to breed show dogs is fine, but perhaps we need to use some of mother natures throw backs to remedy some of the problems we have made for ourselves. At least that way we retain the line. But to do that we need to alter the standards a little. After the hoorah about "Jugs" I went and approached a pug breeder I know and asked, yes she has had a few "pet quality" dogs with less prominent eyes and longer nose. She is not proud of them but very proud of their litter sister who has taken out a few show. That may be mission impossible to change that attitude. It does appear to be a fairly common mind set. I have no doubt that some of the key board trolls on this list will now have a field day but if only a few of you think about the problem then it may not be too late for us to not end up being victims. Edited January 1, 2013 by Sandy46 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 (edited) Erny taps fingers on desk ...... But I still don't get why the Purebreed show-line breeding people don't put up the "good" about what they breed and why, instead of being drawn in to a line of defence against those who do criticise. Working-line put up why their dogs are better (their point of view). Why not show-line simply take the same line? I'd be interested to hear. Personally and generally speaking, I like working-line bred dogs. But putting up reasons where show-line have advantages might be helpful to a cause to demonstrate to people reading an argument the "balanced" version of debate ??? Edited to add in the words "and generally speaking" above. Edited January 2, 2013 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosmum Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 (edited) Sounds like a plan! Would be nice though if it could be done in way to avoid buying into controversy with claims of being better(which would just increase the voices wanting to prove otherwise) Pointing out advantages in the interests of balance.? Don't think I've read anything like that in too long.Yep,would be nice! Edited January 2, 2013 by moosmum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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