Look What They Have Done To Our Dogs.

[moosmum]

To be honest,I think the problems are overwhelming people so they can't see the positives any more than they can see the solutions.

To my eyes,its not pedigree breeders under attack,its the communities attitudes to dogs under attack.And thats a good sign.It means people ARE looking for a better way forward.

Pedigree breeders are part of that community and so far the ONLY real critique has been PDE.Thats realy pretty mild.

Yes,its being addressed,but at the same time theres a retreat from the general community by breeders who are scared to be noticed.Hence why the actions being taken aren't making news.

If designer dogs can be shown to be suffering in a demonstrable way thru' being bred solely for their marketability,then they will get a lot of attention from the media too.And legislation that will affect us all,and in the end,just makes it harder for people to own or care for their dogs in the best way for their own personal situations.

But people need a comparison and they aren't getting that unless they go looking for you.Most don't KNOW enough to do that.

If we keep saying " WE are under attack,leave us alone,theres worse" and point the finger at some one else,all we are showing those people is what a bloody mess WE, the community are making. So 'round it goes.

As a community,we know whats in front of us.That ain't pedigree dogs or their breeders values.

Pedigree breeders appear to be holding themselves apart and immune from community concerns with defensiveness,and the push for ONLY pedigree breeds.

Thats not offering solutions to community concerns.Offering yourselves as an alternative to community concern isn't a solution.

All that would accomplish is being the sole target.

We, as a community need to push values,not legislation and that can only benefit pedigree breeders.

[Are You Serious Jo]

It's not just PDE though, it's the rspca and other groups pushing the don't buy adopt and lumping registered breeders in with puppy farmers. There is a real backlash against breeders and you only have to talk to the average person in the street to see the general attitude and it's very negative. You have the gardener led fad for crossbreds and I don't see community attitudes under attack at all, it's very specific about who are being made the bad guys.

[~Anne~]

As for pedigree pugs with longer noses, it could possibly be a very poorly bred pedigree. I have seen leggy, longer nosed pugs with papers over the years.

Yep, clients of mine brought their new black Pug pup over the other day. She is very leggy and longer nose. She has pedigree papers.

The nosey / leggy ones in the park are always black... must be a few breeding them.

I'd have a guess and say they were mostly bred around Bargo. It's the meca for black Pugs, all using each others black dogs without a thought for anything else, besides them turning out black

And a breeder up north, around Newcastle way, churning out leggy fawns. Interestingly the 3 I saw, all papered, all had behavioural issues too.

[Alyosha]

OT but I hate the don't buy adopt thing. Rescue dogs have price tags, and breeders dogs are just as unlikely to return any profit. Why is buying from a breeder not adopting??

[Sheridan]

OT but I hate the don't buy adopt thing. Rescue dogs have price tags, and breeders dogs are just as unlikely to return any profit. Why is buying from a breeder not adopting??

Adopt don't buy assumes that any dog will do. Not for me, it won't.

[~Anne~]

in my breed you could easily wait 2 years or more to get a pup. There are very few people out there who want one. And even fewer that are suitable. So it certainly doesn't make breeding more very attractive. I had a school principal try and tell me that greyhounds were non shedding, she had read it on the net so it must be true. Didn't want to believe me when I told her that was not true, in fact she outright didn't believe me and challenged me on it. She was a high school principle, she knew much better then me, that was her whole attitude. Didn't want to listen to me at all. No hope of educating her.

It's annoying isn't it and absolutely wrong. I've experienced a similar attitude. I've had my opinion and knowledge continually battered simply because I don't actually breed pugs. Breeding them it seems gives you all the knowledge known of the breed it seems. I just wish someone would tell breeders churning out pugs with massive health issues this theory.

Back to a point someone raised earlier, there are obvious defensive positions held by both sides of the debate with over reactions to comments made on both sides. Its understandable and most are guilty of it. Still, it certainly makes for education and I'm all for that though. It's hard not to be defensive when you are a breeder and you're told your breed is riddled with health issues. It's hard to step back and look at the issue objectively. I find it hard, as an advocate of the pug, to step back and view the discussion objectively too. However from the other side of the coin.

I haven't viewed the video that started this thread as my iPad doesn't have the right bits to make it work. However, I think I could have a pretty well educated guess as to what it looks like. It would possibly be very much like the anti BSL videos showing the pit bull to be a teddy bear, or the pro docking videos showing graphic illustrations of damaged tails. I guess that's the irony. The only way to push a point is to show that point in all it's exaggerated glory. It is a tactic used by everyone who wants to get a point across. In advertising, the better you do it, the more money you earn.

[~Anne~]

I don't want large numbers of my breeds out there.

Neither do I but unfortunately, according to an editorial I read recently, they are on a rocket rise to popularity.

Edited December 30, 2012 by ~Anne~

[casowner]

OT but I hate the don't buy adopt thing. Rescue dogs have price tags, and breeders dogs are just as unlikely to return any profit. Why is buying from a breeder not adopting??

We support a rescue group and through our customers have rehomed dozens of animals, I think the adoption angle works because of the emotive pull it has - these are unwanted, abandoned animals looking for their last hope, well that is the message I get from the "adopt don't shop" message. Adopting a rescue animal makes people feel happy that they have helped save a life and have given their pet a second chance and I think that is admirable.

I fully support ethical registered breeders and I will only ever own pedigree dogs not because of status or the desire to have one of "those" dogs but because of the time invested in lineage, back up support and dogs specifically chosen for their breed traits. In my life I need to have a reliance on reasonable predictability when it comes to my dogs, my other animals are too important to have unknown factors at play. I lost my little cross over a year ago and she was my heart but after owning my CAO I have realised that I desire specific traits in any dog in my home. I will do whatever I can to help support the rescue group that is ethical but I will also always support people making informed, educated choices and that includes pointing them in the direction of registered breeders also

[Diva]

It's not just PDE though, it's the rspca and other groups pushing the don't buy adopt and lumping registered breeders in with puppy farmers. There is a real backlash against breeders and you only have to talk to the average person in the street to see the general attitude and it's very negative. You have the gardener led fad for crossbreds and I don't see community attitudes under attack at all, it's very specific about who are being made the bad guys.

Yes I agree, I have had reservations about the way the incentive structure in the current show scene impacts breeds for some time, but those concerns have become marginal in the face of the current push against pure breeds and breeders.

I have a friend who is a vet in the US, and also a breeder of many dual performance/show champions, who recounted how a newly graduated vet told her she should be ashamed to be a breeder. Aparently that attitude is not at all uncommon now.

[Sheridan]

I don't want large numbers of my breeds out there.

Neither do I but unfortunately, according to an editorial I read recently, they are on a rocket rise to popularity.

Pugs, you mean?

[~Anne~]

I don't want large numbers of my breeds out there.

Neither do I but unfortunately, according to an editorial I read recently, they are on a rocket rise to popularity.

Pugs, you mean?

Sorry yes, Pugs. I can't recall the figure but it was something like a rise in popularity by 500 odd percent. Even if that is grossly exaggerated, which I assume it is, the numbers of registered Pugs have been rising very steadily for many years. As they are not a breed for the inexperienced, or stupid to breed, I can only see the health issues getting worse.

Edited December 30, 2012 by ~Anne~

[Diva]

Certainly see more pugs and pug crosses around here over the last couple of years.

I find it one of the great ironies that people can on the one hand become incensed over 'irresponsible' breeding by whatever the current definition is but on the other hand enthusiastically jump on the latest breed/crossbreed/pound dog bandwagon with barely a serious or considered thought as to whether it actually suits them, let alone connect the dots back to breeding practices.

Edited December 30, 2012 by Diva

[Sheridan]

I don't see a lot of pugs other than at shows. I see the occasional odd looking dog that I think is probably a cross. Mostly working dogs, bitsas, and labs around here.

[The Spotted Devil]

I'm doing behavioural research across 4 different shelters and it's amazing the difference in dog types (I won't say breeds!) depending on the socio-economic area. I see very few dogs that look like pedigreed dogs even though many are listed as breeds. I will certainly be pointing that out when I write up.

Edited December 30, 2012 by The Spotted Devil

[~Anne~]

Another thing to look for is cultural differences Spotted Devil. For example, Renbury often gets a high number of swf and breeds such as poms. This is due to the European and Asian influences in the council areas linked to Renbury I am sure you'll find. Blacktown appears to get a lot of bull type breeds and similar and this, again, would be due to the socio economic and cultural differences in the LGAs feeding Blacktown.

[moosmum]

It's not just PDE though, it's the rspca and other groups pushing the don't buy adopt and lumping registered breeders in with puppy farmers. There is a real backlash against breeders and you only have to talk to the average person in the street to see the general attitude and it's very negative. You have the gardener led fad for crossbreds and I don't see community attitudes under attack at all, it's very specific about who are being made the bad guys.

I don't see it so much as lumping registered breeders with puppy farmers.More lumping ALL breeders together.

And sure,you will get Commercial interests dominating the the issues in their favour.We play right into their hands.

As long as this is going to be about whos left standing we're all going down.

Except commercial interests 'cos they will meet every requirement and come up trumps with no competition left.

Surely its about finding the healthy balance? We have to be involved in that.

Edited December 30, 2012 by moosmum

[WreckitWhippet]

It's not just PDE though, it's the rspca and other groups pushing the don't buy adopt and lumping registered breeders in with puppy farmers. There is a real backlash against breeders and you only have to talk to the average person in the street to see the general attitude and it's very negative. You have the gardener led fad for crossbreds and I don't see community attitudes under attack at all, it's very specific about who are being made the bad guys.

I don't see it so much as lumping registered breeders with puppy farmers.More lumping ALL breeders together.

And sure,you will get Commercial interests dominating the the issues in their favour.We play right into their hands.

As long as this is going to be about whos left standing we're all going down.

Except commercial interests 'cos they will meet every requirement and come up trumps with no competition left.

Surely its about finding the healthy balance? We have to be involved in that.

and that's the biggest concern of all, whilst most ANKC registered breeders strive to produce happy, healthy and good examples of the breed, through careful choices and decision making, the average BYBer does none of the aforementioned

It's an effing insult to have your pedigree dogs lumped in the same basket and condemned along with every mongrel bred dog that may or may not be your breed of choice.

[moosmum]

It's not just PDE though, it's the rspca and other groups pushing the don't buy adopt and lumping registered breeders in with puppy farmers. There is a real backlash against breeders and you only have to talk to the average person in the street to see the general attitude and it's very negative. You have the gardener led fad for crossbreds and I don't see community attitudes under attack at all, it's very specific about who are being made the bad guys.

I don't see it so much as lumping registered breeders with puppy farmers.More lumping ALL breeders together.

And sure,you will get Commercial interests dominating the the issues in their favour.We play right into their hands.

As long as this is going to be about whos left standing we're all going down.

Except commercial interests 'cos they will meet every requirement and come up trumps with no competition left.

Surely its about finding the healthy balance? We have to be involved in that.

and that's the biggest concern of all, whilst most ANKC registered breeders strive to produce happy, healthy and good examples of the breed, through careful choices and decision making, the average BYBer does none of the aforementioned

It's an effing insult to have your pedigree dogs lumped in the same basket and condemned along with every mongrel bred dog that may or may not be your breed of choice.

Can totaly agree. But if we take our marbles and go home,the game will go on with out us,and might not be there to come back to later.

[Are You Serious Jo]

The game is already lost, numerically the number of registered breeders is too small and from that there aren't enough taking it seriously. The canine councils of each state have not been proactive enough to counteract the bad publicity so now it's become folk law.

[Greylvr]

Greylvr, if you saw so many poor examples of BB, why did you still choose to get one?

Because I did research and went to a good breeder guess not good enough.

in my breed you could easily wait 2 years or more to get a pup. There are very few people out there who want one. And even fewer that are suitable. So it certainly doesn't make breeding more very attractive. I had a school principal try and tell me that greyhounds were non shedding, she had read it on the net so it must be true. Didn't want to believe me when I told her that was not true, in fact she outright didn't believe me and challenged me on it. She was a high school principle, she knew much better then me, that was her whole attitude. Didn't want to listen to me at all. No hope of educating her.

I find lots of people want greyhounds, greyhound rescue NSW homed 80 this year

FOTH placed like 125 dogs last year

There seems to be a demand for greyhounds and no trouble finding people who want to take one in.

OT but I hate the don't buy adopt thing. Rescue dogs have price tags, and breeders dogs are just as unlikely to return any profit. Why is buying from a breeder not adopting??

Because adopting a dog from a shelter or rescue is saving its life when other people have turned their backs, their breeders arnt there for them, the owners dont give a rats they face death. Dogs from breeders wont face death or at least shouldn't ever face death just because it doesnt get bought.