Look What They Have Done To Our Dogs.

[Greylvr]

Who do you think would be putting up pics of their dogs if they had issues bad enough to identify from a photo? There are plenty of brachy dogs that are happy and healthy, they just don't get the same attention as they don't support the AR argument that EVERY brachy dog is unhealthy.

I also requested videos

Sure thing.

This is Gabe, he does agility Agility Bulldog

Also an agility Bulldog My link

And another one (this dog has a heap of titles) My link

You can't paint and entire breed by a few bad examples. I know some Bulldogs down here who are quiet energetic. They have no issues keeping up with my Samoyeds in the generals ring.

But wouldnt it be great if those examples were the norm? Wouldn't it be great if someone can come to a forum and say my dog cant walk very far without being in distress and have the normal response be thats not typical instead of it being typical?

To me they are normal. As I pointed out, the Bulldogs I'm use to seeing can move very happily.

What Bulldog person came on here saying their dog couldn't move? I've seen people who don't own Bulldogs making comments about a breed they don't own.

I'm not saying that the whole breed is fine but I am saying that seeing one or two bad examples isn't a good enough reason to blanket an entire breed as unhealthy.

Well thats true but its been every bull dog I have seen and I love them they are awesome temperament wise and I hope that maybe the bad breeders will get run out of the breeding business and let the professionals do it.

And every Bulldog you met was a pedigree was it? How many dogs are we talking about here?

I hope bad breeders vanish too. It would be wonderful.

yes they were pedigreed prob talking maybe 100+ in the 10 years in my vet tech days. I love the breed and am not knocking or trying to good bulldog breeders

[LizT]

Ground hog day again?

[Are You Serious Jo]

Someone telling you their dog is pedigree is not the same as the dog actually being a registered purebred. You ask some people if their dog has papers and they say yes, it turns out it is some photocopies of some dogs pedigree and they got it from the petshop. So basically you have no proof those BBs were bred by registered breeders.

[Cat]

except for the one she said she had

ETA, I don't really have an opinion either way but it does seem like the conversation is going around in circles.

I do think more should be done to eliminate hereditary problems in Shar Pei. Too many breeders are more concerned about looks, I can think of examples of some unethical ones listed on DOL. The majority of ones that end up in pounds seem to have problems. While a lot of them would be BYBs, I am sure not all of them are. I was looking at a breeder's page the other day - extremely rolly dogs whose eyes needed to be tacked because they couldn't see. While extreme rolls are really cute there are some studies that say the more rolls, the more chance of it getting Shar Pei Fever. Surely these sorts of things should be taken into account

But Yes, there are good breeders as well.

Edited December 29, 2012 by Cat

[Greylvr]

except for the one she said she had

and the multiple breeders/showers that used the vet I worked at.

[Are You Serious Jo]

So you saw over 100 purebred registered BBs. Say each breeder had 10 dogs (being generous) you saw that is about 10 registered breeders who show in that area. Really?

[Greylvr]

So you saw over 100 purebred registered BBs. Say each breeder had 10 dogs (being generous) you saw that is about 10 registered breeders who show in that area. Really?

Ok fine have it your way, the bulldog is awesome and the healthiest breed in the world there is nothing wrong with them and I suggest everyone go get one because your vet bills will be nil since they are no healthy.

Is that better? There is no denying it and I still don't agree with how they are built in the majority I have seen. Have fun denying that things need to change for the dogs.

[Greylvr]

except for the one she said she had

ETA, I don't really have an opinion either way but it does seem like the conversation is going around in circles.

I do think more should be done to eliminate hereditary problems in Shar Pei. Too many breeders are more concerned about looks, I can think of examples of some unethical ones listed on DOL. The majority of ones that end up in pounds seem to have problems. While a lot of them would be BYBs, I am sure not all of them are. I was looking at a breeder's page the other day - extremely rolly dogs whose eyes needed to be tacked because they couldn't see. While extreme rolls are really cute there are some studies that say the more rolls, the more chance of it getting Shar Pei Fever. Surely these sorts of things should be taken into account

But Yes, there are good breeders as well.

The saddest thing I saw was some breeders listed on DOL saying they are breeding the biggest Am staffs etc, its a shame that breed is another that is going down the tubes because people think bigger is better in the staffs

[Are You Serious Jo]

So you saw over 100 purebred registered BBs. Say each breeder had 10 dogs (being generous) you saw that is about 10 registered breeders who show in that area. Really?

Ok fine have it your way, the bulldog is awesome and the healthiest breed in the world there is nothing wrong with them and I suggest everyone go get one because your vet bills will be nil since they are no healthy.

Is that better? There is no denying it and I still don't agree with how they are built in the majority I have seen. Have fun denying that things need to change for the dogs.

If you are going to make claims then they need to be accurate and you should be happy to stand behind them. It sounds like a massive exaggeration to me. No one ever said there aren't some BB breeders doing the wrong thing, but the claims that every one of them is unhealthy is incorrect. Did you bother to watch the videos of the happy active BBs?

[Greylvr]

So you saw over 100 purebred registered BBs. Say each breeder had 10 dogs (being generous) you saw that is about 10 registered breeders who show in that area. Really?

Ok fine have it your way, the bulldog is awesome and the healthiest breed in the world there is nothing wrong with them and I suggest everyone go get one because your vet bills will be nil since they are no healthy.

Is that better? There is no denying it and I still don't agree with how they are built in the majority I have seen. Have fun denying that things need to change for the dogs.

If you are going to make claims then they need to be accurate and you should be happy to stand behind them. It sounds like a massive exaggeration to me. No one ever said there aren't some BB breeders doing the wrong thing, but the claims that every one of them is unhealthy is incorrect. Did you bother to watch the videos of the happy active BBs?

yes i did and I never meant to imply that all of them are unhealthy. If you got that idea I misworded it and I apologize for it. I know there are some good ones out there and I surely hope soon that the bad breeders just stop

[Jed]

Greylvr got a bulldog with problems.

I have had a heap of boxers - I had the sicko boxer from hell at one time - gorgeous looking, nice temperament, lovely pedigree, expensively ill. Cost about 6 zillion in vet fees!!

If that was my only boxer, I would be frightened off forever. However, I had two other well boxers at the time.

Animals get stuff. All we can do as breeders is try to ensure that we are improving any problems we find. Sometimes we breed and know not what we do -- a year or so later, we find we have bred a dog with problems. I hope all of us will do something critical about it. Some will.

"Improving the breed" doesn't just mean breeding dogs with a nice turn of stifle who will win lots of fringies.

[Are You Serious Jo]

Who do you think would be putting up pics of their dogs if they had issues bad enough to identify from a photo? There are plenty of brachy dogs that are happy and healthy, they just don't get the same attention as they don't support the AR argument that EVERY brachy dog is unhealthy.

I also requested videos

Sure thing.

This is Gabe, he does agility Agility Bulldog

Also an agility Bulldog My link

And another one (this dog has a heap of titles) My link

You can't paint and entire breed by a few bad examples. I know some Bulldogs down here who are quiet energetic. They have no issues keeping up with my Samoyeds in the generals ring.

But wouldnt it be great if those examples were the norm? Wouldn't it be great if someone can come to a forum and say my dog cant walk very far without being in distress and have the normal response be thats not typical instead of it being typical?

To me they are normal. As I pointed out, the Bulldogs I'm use to seeing can move very happily.

What Bulldog person came on here saying their dog couldn't move? I've seen people who don't own Bulldogs making comments about a breed they don't own.

I'm not saying that the whole breed is fine but I am saying that seeing one or two bad examples isn't a good enough reason to blanket an entire breed as unhealthy.

Well thats true but its been every bull dog I have seen and I love them they are awesome temperament wise and I hope that maybe the bad breeders will get run out of the breeding business and let the professionals do it.

And every Bulldog you met was a pedigree was it? How many dogs are we talking about here?

I hope bad breeders vanish too. It would be wonderful.

yes they were pedigreed prob talking maybe 100+ in the 10 years in my vet tech days. I love the breed and am not knocking or trying to good bulldog breeders

What you are saying now is very different to what you said above, do you really wonder why BB people are defensive when this sort of thing gets trotted out?

[Greylvr]

Who do you think would be putting up pics of their dogs if they had issues bad enough to identify from a photo? There are plenty of brachy dogs that are happy and healthy, they just don't get the same attention as they don't support the AR argument that EVERY brachy dog is unhealthy.

I also requested videos

Sure thing.

This is Gabe, he does agility Agility Bulldog

Also an agility Bulldog My link

And another one (this dog has a heap of titles) My link

You can't paint and entire breed by a few bad examples. I know some Bulldogs down here who are quiet energetic. They have no issues keeping up with my Samoyeds in the generals ring.

But wouldnt it be great if those examples were the norm? Wouldn't it be great if someone can come to a forum and say my dog cant walk very far without being in distress and have the normal response be thats not typical instead of it being typical?

To me they are normal. As I pointed out, the Bulldogs I'm use to seeing can move very happily.

What Bulldog person came on here saying their dog couldn't move? I've seen people who don't own Bulldogs making comments about a breed they don't own.

I'm not saying that the whole breed is fine but I am saying that seeing one or two bad examples isn't a good enough reason to blanket an entire breed as unhealthy.

Well thats true but its been every bull dog I have seen and I love them they are awesome temperament wise and I hope that maybe the bad breeders will get run out of the breeding business and let the professionals do it.

And every Bulldog you met was a pedigree was it? How many dogs are we talking about here?

I hope bad breeders vanish too. It would be wonderful.

yes they were pedigreed prob talking maybe 100+ in the 10 years in my vet tech days. I love the breed and am not knocking or trying to good bulldog breeders

What you are saying now is very different to what you said above, do you really wonder why BB people are defensive when this sort of thing gets trotted out?

yes everyone I have seen, I havent seen all the bulldogs in the world so I am sure there are healthy ones. I see people on this forum with healthy ones now. Anyway this is just us chasing our tails so I will just leave it at that.

[casowner]

Who do you think would be putting up pics of their dogs if they had issues bad enough to identify from a photo? There are plenty of brachy dogs that are happy and healthy, they just don't get the same attention as they don't support the AR argument that EVERY brachy dog is unhealthy.

I also requested videos

Sure thing.

This is Gabe, he does agility Agility Bulldog

Also an agility Bulldog My link

And another one (this dog has a heap of titles) My link

You can't paint and entire breed by a few bad examples. I know some Bulldogs down here who are quiet energetic. They have no issues keeping up with my Samoyeds in the generals ring.

But wouldnt it be great if those examples were the norm? Wouldn't it be great if someone can come to a forum and say my dog cant walk very far without being in distress and have the normal response be thats not typical instead of it being typical?

To me they are normal. As I pointed out, the Bulldogs I'm use to seeing can move very happily.

What Bulldog person came on here saying their dog couldn't move? I've seen people who don't own Bulldogs making comments about a breed they don't own.

I'm not saying that the whole breed is fine but I am saying that seeing one or two bad examples isn't a good enough reason to blanket an entire breed as unhealthy.

Well thats true but its been every bull dog I have seen and I love them they are awesome temperament wise and I hope that maybe the bad breeders will get run out of the breeding business and let the professionals do it.

And every Bulldog you met was a pedigree was it? How many dogs are we talking about here?

I hope bad breeders vanish too. It would be wonderful.

yes they were pedigreed prob talking maybe 100+ in the 10 years in my vet tech days. I love the breed and am not knocking or trying to good bulldog breeders

What you are saying now is very different to what you said above, do you really wonder why BB people are defensive when this sort of thing gets trotted out?

yes everyone I have seen, I havent seen all the bulldogs in the world so I am sure there are healthy ones. I see people on this forum with healthy ones now. Anyway this is just us chasing our tails so I will just leave it at that.

Not if you are a bulldog :laugh:

I have worked with animals for 20 years and would be lucky to have met over 10, I love them but I do have a soft spot for braccy breeds not that I have ever owned one - yet

[Danois]

Watched the cutest BB pup take puppy in group tonight. Such a funny little thing!

5 plus years of going to dog shows (and being in Group 7 and all), I still reckon I've only seen around 20 different BB.

[rebelsquest]

Greylvr, if you saw so many poor examples of BB, why did you still choose to get one?

[tdierikx]

You know what I'd love to see?

I'd love to see large numbers of registered breeders breeding awesome dogs for the pet market.

We can't deny that there is a market for pet dogs, and we can't deny that there are some really good breeders breeding nice quality dogs of all sorts of breeds.

Wouldn't it be brilliant if there were some way to marry the two camps?

T.

[Salukifan]

You know what I'd love to see?

I'd love to see large numbers of registered breeders breeding awesome dogs for the pet market.

We can't deny that there is a market for pet dogs, and we can't deny that there are some really good breeders breeding nice quality dogs of all sorts of breeds.

Wouldn't it be brilliant if there were some way to marry the two camps?

T.

Most ANKC pedigreed dogs ARE pets. Their breeders don't have "pet breeding" as their primary goal but only a few pups at most in litters end up in show or breeder homes.

The result is the same but the aims of the breeder are what differ. If all you are breeding is "pets" then why look outside your own yard for breeding stock? That's where the term "backyard breeder" comes from as I understand it.

[tdierikx]

I understand that HW - and as bound by the ANKC/State CC rules they are supposed to be aiming at producing show quality dogs in their breeding programs...

... but I'd still like to see maybe a few more initiatives within the pedigee world aimed at supplying an obviously large pet dog market with great quality healthy examples of each breed - otherwise, how are the general public to change their minds about pedigreed dogs? At the moment, the pet buying public are getting the impression that the only pedigreed dogs available to them are "discards" (a horrible word, I'm sorry) that weren't good enough to show - and that these "discards" are too highly priced (which we all know is actually a fallacy - but that's how Joe Public is perceiving it).

T.

[Salukifan]

I understand that HW - and as bound by the ANKC/State CC rules they are supposed to be aiming at producing show quality dogs in their breeding programs...

... but I'd still like to see maybe a few more initiatives within the pedigee world aimed at supplying an obviously large pet dog market with great quality healthy examples of each breed - otherwise, how are the general public to change their minds about pedigreed dogs? At the moment, the pet buying public are getting the impression that the only pedigreed dogs available to them are "discards" (a horrible word, I'm sorry) that weren't good enough to show - and that these "discards" are too highly priced (which we all know is actually a fallacy - but that's how Joe Public is perceiving it).

T.

The general public, to a fair degree, don't value pedigrees. They want a dog today, they want it cheap and they don' want the spanish inquisition about how they propose to care for it. We need to educate those willing to listen to put more thought into how they source a dog.

And quite frankly, there are a fair number of dog owners out there that responsible breeders would NOT be willing to sell to. No amount of PR is going to convince such breeders to sell to homes wholly unsuitable for the pup they propose to buy or simply not interested in having anything more than an animated garden ornament. Head down to any dog pound to see how that frequently turns out.

The solution lies in better education across the board but no amount of education can teach people that dog ownership is NOT a right. It's a privilege that comes with certain responsibilites and the primary one is the welfare of the dog.