Look What They Have Done To Our Dogs.

[rebelsquest]

I understand that you guys are protective of purebreeds, I get that. It's a good thing to be and I respect you guys for it. I said that I could tell obvious visual signs of illness from a photo, skin, weight etc. As a training vet nurse and even a qualified vet nurse we are not allowed to diagnose anything, just say that the dog has skin issues (suspected mange etc), suspected ear mites or dog has a limp. We can't diagnose. The pictures I am referring to are pictures that show obvious signs of illness. You can justify the breed all you want but the bottom line is I don't agree with brachy breeds and never will. I'm just glad that bb breeders are working on it. and MUP has left the thread.

Could you post some of these photos that you have diagnosed illness from?

[german_shep_fan]

I just met a pug at the dog park who's owner claimed she was pedigree - except she screamed of a multi generation cross time me as she was skinny with long legs and had a bit of a nose. Obviously the owners word on her pedigree can't be taken at face value, but what if she was? It is possible to get a pedigree pug with a nose? Ignoring the breed standard obviously because she failed on that count miserably.

Genuine question. I'm a pug person, I have two from awesome breeders and am fully aware of the limitations of the brachy breeds, but don't think popping out crosses and calling them pedigree is the answer (nor do I claim to have an answer, before someone jumps on me :laugh: )

We have a "Jug" at our park :p Jack x Pug. Apparently breeder is trying to lengthen the nose so they won't have breathing issues according to owners. At least they are not under the false impression the dog a pure pug lol

[minimax]

I just met a pug at the dog park who's owner claimed she was pedigree - except she screamed of a multi generation cross time me as she was skinny with long legs and had a bit of a nose. Obviously the owners word on her pedigree can't be taken at face value, but what if she was? It is possible to get a pedigree pug with a nose? Ignoring the breed standard obviously because she failed on that count miserably.

Genuine question. I'm a pug person, I have two from awesome breeders and am fully aware of the limitations of the brachy breeds, but don't think popping out crosses and calling them pedigree is the answer (nor do I claim to have an answer, before someone jumps on me :laugh: )

We have a "Jug" at our park :p Jack x Pug. Apparently breeder is trying to lengthen the nose so they won't have breathing issues according to owners. At least they are not under the false impression the dog a pure pug lol

Yeh pug crosses are common, I'm disturbed by the amount of pugs with noses where the owners think they are pure!

[aussielover]

If BB people want to save their breeds reputation- health wise at least, they need to get out there and prove their breeding stock are fit and healthy.

Things like getting titles such as endurance, agility, obedience etc would go a long way to reassure people that bulldogs are fit and functional.

The endurance test is not demanding and IMO, any healthy fit dog should be able to complete it without issue.

In Australia we are lucky that you can get agility titles without necessarily having a super fast dog.

Although obedience is not as strenous as some other sports, it does require a reasonable level of fitness.

[Sheridan]

<br />I understand that you guys are protective of purebreeds, I get that. It's a good thing to be and I respect you guys for it. I said that I could tell obvious visual signs of illness from a photo, skin, weight etc. As a training vet nurse and even a qualified vet nurse we are not allowed to diagnose anything, just say that the dog has skin issues (suspected mange etc), suspected ear mites or dog has a limp. We can't diagnose. The pictures I am referring to are pictures that show obvious signs of illness. You can justify the breed all you want but the bottom line is I don't agree with brachy breeds and never will. I'm just glad that bb breeders are working on it. and MUP has left the thread.

I didn't say diagnose, I said in your care. I'm not sure how you can tell if a dog has a limp from a photo but I will put that down to your eponymous expertise in all things dog.

[raineth]

I think its close to useless to get into arguing about individual cases of either healthy or unhealthy dogs of any breed. What would be the most important information would be to know how many individuals of a particular breed are affected by a certain health problem.

It would be difficult no doubt, but surely it would be possible for breed clubs to gather such information. Imagine how useful it would be? Firstly it would allow pedigree breeders to have stats that are relevant only to pedigree dogs, thereby eliminating byb purebreds from the analysis. That would mean that pedigree breeders could say here is the evidence that this breed, when carefully bred, rarely suffers from xyz health problem.

[Alkhe]

That's a real stretch MUP. Im an ex vet nurse and unless a health issue is bleedingly obvious then I disagree that you can tell a dogs health by a photo, skin or otherwise. In fact, it took me weeks to work out that one of my own dogs had demodex and he was right in front of me!

Pretty sure she's talking about where a health issue is bleedingly obvious..

[Are You Serious Jo]

I understand that you guys are protective of purebreeds, I get that. It's a good thing to be and I respect you guys for it. I said that I could tell obvious visual signs of illness from a photo, skin, weight etc. As a training vet nurse and even a qualified vet nurse we are not allowed to diagnose anything, just say that the dog has skin issues (suspected mange etc), suspected ear mites or dog has a limp. We can't diagnose. The pictures I am referring to are pictures that show obvious signs of illness. You can justify the breed all you want but the bottom line is I don't agree with brachy breeds and never will. I'm just glad that bb breeders are working on it. and MUP has left the thread.

The type of illnesses you think you can diagnose from photos are not specific to BBs. How can photos of general illnesses tell you the health of a specific breed? You were the one who said all BBs are unhealthy so don't be surprised when people make an effort to prove you wrong.

[Horsegal98]

This link discusses breed 'corruption' further, quite thought provoking:

http://rufflyspeaking.wordpress.com/2008/10/15/568/

[kobblyness]

I really like looking at photos of the old and the now of pedigree bred dogs, always interests me.

[~Anne~]

I just met a pug at the dog park who's owner claimed she was pedigree - except she screamed of a multi generation cross time me as she was skinny with long legs and had a bit of a nose. Obviously the owners word on her pedigree can't be taken at face value, but what if she was? It is possible to get a pedigree pug with a nose? Ignoring the breed standard obviously because she failed on that count miserably.

Genuine question. I'm a pug person, I have two from awesome breeders and am fully aware of the limitations of the brachy breeds, but don't think popping out crosses and calling them pedigree is the answer (nor do I claim to have an answer, before someone jumps on me :laugh: )

We have a "Jug" at our park :p Jack x Pug. Apparently breeder is trying to lengthen the nose so they won't have breathing issues according to owners. At least they are not under the false impression the dog a pure pug lol

Yeh pug crosses are common, I'm disturbed by the amount of pugs with noses where the owners think they are pure!

And unfortunately the people who make the ludicrous claim that they are crossing dogs to create a pug with a longer nose are even more dangerous than the breeder who is breeding pugs with papers with no thought or understanding of brachy syndrome. Someone who crosses a pug with a breed like the beagle, jack russel or cavalier are simply breeding cross bred dogs to sell. They're not engaging in a breeding program to fix the problems in the breed which is clearly what is needed and occurring in a very small number of breeders with foresight and courage.

As for pedigree pugs with longer noses, it could possibly be a very poorly bred pedigree. I have seen leggy, longer nosed pugs with papers over the years.

[Clyde]

As for pedigree pugs with longer noses, it could possibly be a very poorly bred pedigree. I have seen leggy, longer nosed pugs with papers over the years.

Yep, clients of mine brought their new black Pug pup over the other day. She is very leggy and longer nose. She has pedigree papers.

[minimax]

As for pedigree pugs with longer noses, it could possibly be a very poorly bred pedigree. I have seen leggy, longer nosed pugs with papers over the years.

Yep, clients of mine brought their new black Pug pup over the other day. She is very leggy and longer nose. She has pedigree papers.

The nosey / leggy ones in the park are always black... must be a few breeding them.

[Greylvr]

Who do you think would be putting up pics of their dogs if they had issues bad enough to identify from a photo? There are plenty of brachy dogs that are happy and healthy, they just don't get the same attention as they don't support the AR argument that EVERY brachy dog is unhealthy.

I also requested videos

Sure thing.

This is Gabe, he does agility Agility Bulldog

Also an agility Bulldog My link

And another one (this dog has a heap of titles) My link

You can't paint and entire breed by a few bad examples. I know some Bulldogs down here who are quiet energetic. They have no issues keeping up with my Samoyeds in the generals ring.

But wouldnt it be great if those examples were the norm? Wouldn't it be great if someone can come to a forum and say my dog cant walk very far without being in distress and have the normal response be thats not typical instead of it being typical?

[WreckitWhippet]

As for pedigree pugs with longer noses, it could possibly be a very poorly bred pedigree. I have seen leggy, longer nosed pugs with papers over the years.

Yep, clients of mine brought their new black Pug pup over the other day. She is very leggy and longer nose. She has pedigree papers.

The nosey / leggy ones in the park are always black... must be a few breeding them.

I'd have a guess and say they were mostly bred around Bargo. It's the meca for black Pugs, all using each others black dogs without a thought for anything else, besides them turning out black

[Bjelkier]

Who do you think would be putting up pics of their dogs if they had issues bad enough to identify from a photo? There are plenty of brachy dogs that are happy and healthy, they just don't get the same attention as they don't support the AR argument that EVERY brachy dog is unhealthy.

I also requested videos

Sure thing.

This is Gabe, he does agility Agility Bulldog

Also an agility Bulldog My link

And another one (this dog has a heap of titles) My link

You can't paint and entire breed by a few bad examples. I know some Bulldogs down here who are quiet energetic. They have no issues keeping up with my Samoyeds in the generals ring.

But wouldnt it be great if those examples were the norm? Wouldn't it be great if someone can come to a forum and say my dog cant walk very far without being in distress and have the normal response be thats not typical instead of it being typical?

To me they are normal. As I pointed out, the Bulldogs I'm use to seeing can move very happily.

What Bulldog person came on here saying their dog couldn't move? I've seen people who don't own Bulldogs making comments about a breed they don't own.

I'm not saying that the whole breed is fine but I am saying that seeing one or two bad examples isn't a good enough reason to blanket an entire breed as unhealthy.

Edited December 29, 2012 by Bjelkier

[Greylvr]

Who do you think would be putting up pics of their dogs if they had issues bad enough to identify from a photo? There are plenty of brachy dogs that are happy and healthy, they just don't get the same attention as they don't support the AR argument that EVERY brachy dog is unhealthy.

I also requested videos

Sure thing.

This is Gabe, he does agility Agility Bulldog

Also an agility Bulldog My link

And another one (this dog has a heap of titles) My link

You can't paint and entire breed by a few bad examples. I know some Bulldogs down here who are quiet energetic. They have no issues keeping up with my Samoyeds in the generals ring.

But wouldnt it be great if those examples were the norm? Wouldn't it be great if someone can come to a forum and say my dog cant walk very far without being in distress and have the normal response be thats not typical instead of it being typical?

To me they are normal. As I pointed out, the Bulldogs I'm use to seeing can move very happily.

What Bulldog person came on here saying their dog couldn't move? I've seen people who don't own Bulldogs making comments about a breed they don't own.

I'm not saying that the whole breed is fine but I am saying that seeing one or two bad examples isn't a good enough reason to blanket an entire breed as unhealthy.

Well thats true but its been every bull dog I have seen and I love them they are awesome temperament wise and I hope that maybe the bad breeders will get run out of the breeding business and let the professionals do it.

[Jed]

Obviously I mean skin issues, weight issues, teeth, visual stuff...

But your earlier contention is that you can tell the health of a british bulldog from photos.

Some photos you can, same with any other breed.

My daughter is a vet, with 3 degrees, and a couple of other qualifications. She is the practice manager at 3 large metropolitan vet clinics.

She says there is NO WAy she could tell the health condition of ANY dog, or any condition from a photo.

So you should be pleased to know you are better than a well qualified vet. By your own admission.

And if you want to see healthy Bulldogs, look here

There you will see Tillman skateboarding and surfing; Diesel another Bulldog, jetskiing, and Gus giving his plastic pool hell. In fact there are heaps of healthy bulldogs out there. Look on you tube.

Making the same assertion AR does - they are all unhealthy.

And Steve, there are plenty of purebred dog breeders, slugging along, as usual, breeding healthy dogs, and striving to fix problems.

Like AR, you seem to fail to get that.

Maybe they are not making enough noise

Not that it matters. But the incorrectness and assumptions annoy me.

Edited December 29, 2012 by Jed

[Bjelkier]

Who do you think would be putting up pics of their dogs if they had issues bad enough to identify from a photo? There are plenty of brachy dogs that are happy and healthy, they just don't get the same attention as they don't support the AR argument that EVERY brachy dog is unhealthy.

I also requested videos

Sure thing.

This is Gabe, he does agility Agility Bulldog

Also an agility Bulldog My link

And another one (this dog has a heap of titles) My link

You can't paint and entire breed by a few bad examples. I know some Bulldogs down here who are quiet energetic. They have no issues keeping up with my Samoyeds in the generals ring.

But wouldnt it be great if those examples were the norm? Wouldn't it be great if someone can come to a forum and say my dog cant walk very far without being in distress and have the normal response be thats not typical instead of it being typical?

To me they are normal. As I pointed out, the Bulldogs I'm use to seeing can move very happily.

What Bulldog person came on here saying their dog couldn't move? I've seen people who don't own Bulldogs making comments about a breed they don't own.

I'm not saying that the whole breed is fine but I am saying that seeing one or two bad examples isn't a good enough reason to blanket an entire breed as unhealthy.

Well thats true but its been every bull dog I have seen and I love them they are awesome temperament wise and I hope that maybe the bad breeders will get run out of the breeding business and let the professionals do it.

And every Bulldog you met was a pedigree was it? How many dogs are we talking about here?

I hope bad breeders vanish too. It would be wonderful.

Edited December 29, 2012 by Bjelkier

[Jed]

I understand that you guys are protective of purebreeds, I get that. It's a good thing to be and I respect you guys for it. I said that I could tell obvious visual signs of illness from a photo, skin, weight etc. As a training vet nurse and even a qualified vet nurse we are not allowed to diagnose anything, just say that the dog has skin issues (suspected mange etc), suspected ear mites or dog has a limp. We can't diagnose. The pictures I am referring to are pictures that show obvious signs of illness. You can justify the breed all you want but the bottom line is I don't agree with brachy breeds and never will. I'm just glad that bb breeders are working on it. and MUP has left the thread.

No one is protective of anything - except the truth. We don't see the truth, and when someone tells the truth, it is simply ignored, not exciting enough, so myths can persist.