Sheridan Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 I feel for the bulldog people and the pug people, especially. The extreme in wheatens seems to be limited in certain quarters to making them look like blonde kerry blues, which is annoying but not life threatening (but hey, back problems ...) but the extremes in bulldogs and pugs have tainted the whole. Bullbreedlover, can you relate some of the positive things British bulldog people are doing to stop the extremes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyosha Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Just a quick anecdote from the other side of the Bulldog debate. I work with a lady who wanted a BB for a pet. She researched, talked to breeders, did all the right things basically. She waited for her pup to be born and when she got her, she was gorgeous, and healthy, and active (she's an absolute livewire!). Her pup is registered, and yes, she was expensive. But her owner figured she was getting what she paid for - quality. And she did. No regrets. She has grown into the same thing as an adult - beautiful and still super active, healthy and robust. Constantly into mischief and adored by all her family. But you won't see their story on forums, or in vet reports etc. Again, I'm not remotely defending the breeding of dogs that have health issues or physical traits that may impact on the wellbeing of their offspring. I'm simply pointing out that making value judgments about entire breeds based on selective examples is dangerous. And if we sink to the level of doing that from within the dog community, those on the outside have got little hope of seeing a full picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 I saw a british bulldog at a show recently and I doubt I would have been able to keep up with him. Very active youngster. I agree with Alyosha that judging breeds by the extremes doesn't the whole any favours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy46 Posted December 29, 2012 Author Share Posted December 29, 2012 There is good, there is bad and there is the original problem. Lets not play the blame game. I know quite a few breeders and even the ones with the short straw when it comes to dogs with problems are concerned and careful breeders and care about their dogs and their dogs health and well being. Cannot say the same for puppy farm. The three I have run across don't seem to care much about the dogs well being. But all that is another matter. We are facing a problem that started with a small gene pool, that applies to a number of breeds, certain features were judged to be good and many started breeding for those features, a somewhat gradual progression to accent those features more and more. Now we have a couple of breeds leading the field, we can perhaps avoid following that trend with the rest but first we need to accept the problem is there, then use our collective knowledge and experience to try to remedy the problem before those fanatics from AR or the keyboard trolls stop us entirely. We are at a point in time where we cannot let personal preference or bias rule. There is a wealth of know how on this forum, lets apply it before the fanatics turn the general public against us. Lets just for once get constructive and leave attitudes and blame out and see what the hell we can do to slowly repair the problem. Vets and other members of the scientific community are telling us we have inherited a problem and some of our dogs are suffering because of it. Lets ensure it stays a minority of breeds and see what we can do to repair many generations of error. It is not about show or work dogs it is about our integrity in the community. When keyboard trolls and fanatics start posting this sort of thing on facebook, twitter and Utube we as a community have a problem. We are the best placed to fix it. It will take concerted action and will require attitudes be left on the shelf. So anybody with any ideas on how best to do this. Lobby for changes and slowly bring the dogs back to a healthy standard? Not all the radical modifications are unhealthy but some certainly are, lets identify the problem and see what we can do it fix it. Some people blame the standard, others blame international trends, well blaming perhaps makes them feel better but not too many will argue for changes to the standard. Perhaps that is where we need to start. Draw back a bit from the more radical. Slowly get back to where we were 20 or 30 years ago, keep the good and repair the bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra777 Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 We had a fair bit to do with a Bulldog owned by a friend's 19-20 year old son. That dog went pighunting, swimming with the family Labrador and ran up and down steep hills with the pig dog pack. Yep, pure bred registered Bulldog. He mated naturally no problems at all (even bigger bitches because he was bred to pig-dog bitches, not my dog, not my decision); and on the two occasions he was shown he won 'Best on Parade' (NZer's will know this one - small comp's not unlike the Australian open show or member's comps) at all breeds events and both judges were astonished to see a Bulldog with actual muscles. His littermates that we saw were the same in activity level, saw him mum and she was the same, his dad I saw in pictures and he was a similar style of dog but a pet and not kept fit. They walk among us..... :laugh: :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mixeduppup Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 I'd love to see photos of the bbs that are apparently healthy and have no problems or even a video. I've searched and searched and have yet to see one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruin Maniac Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 I'll admit as much as I admire bostons, frenchies and english bulldogs (had cuddles with one perhaps 2 weeks ago at the local park - beautiful young lad, about a year old), their issues regarding reproduction and respiratory issues have put me off considering one as a future dog entirely. Not that I'm going to start beating my chest and abusing BD breeders, as I know and appreciate very much that efforts are being made by good breeders to fix these issues (isn't that a large part of purebreeding in all breeds?). Regardless, and call me an idiot, I don't think I'd be comfortable taking one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 I'd love to see photos of the bbs that are apparently healthy and have no problems or even a video. I've searched and searched and have yet to see one. I've seen several, they were posted on FB, after Crufts this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mixeduppup Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 I'd love to see photos of the bbs that are apparently healthy and have no problems or even a video. I've searched and searched and have yet to see one. I've seen several, they were posted on FB, after Crufts this year. I saw those Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 I'd love to see photos of the bbs that are apparently healthy and have no problems or even a video. I've searched and searched and have yet to see one. I wouldn't determine the health of a dog via a photo. I'm not sure how anyone could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mixeduppup Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 (edited) I'd love to see photos of the bbs that are apparently healthy and have no problems or even a video. I've searched and searched and have yet to see one. I wouldn't determine the health of a dog via a photo. I'm not sure how anyone could. I've seen enough in real life to know that bbs are at a severe disadvantage. Breeders can justify it all they like but action in a positive direction is much better. I'm glad to see that they are working toward fixing these issues. And photos are great ways to determine health, we use them in a vet nursing assignments all the time. Edited December 29, 2012 by mixeduppup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 I'd love to see photos of the bbs that are apparently healthy and have no problems or even a video. I've searched and searched and have yet to see one. I've seen several, they were posted on FB, after Crufts this year. I saw those we can't have seen the same ones cause I saw fit and happy BB's, yet you say you have yet to see one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 I'd love to see photos of the bbs that are apparently healthy and have no problems or even a video. I've searched and searched and have yet to see one. I wouldn't determine the health of a dog via a photo. I'm not sure how anyone could. I've seen enough in real life to know that bbs are at a severe disadvantage. Breeders can justify it all they like but action in a positive direction is much better. I'm glad to see that they are working toward fixing these issues. And photos are great ways to determine health, we use them in a vet nursing assignments all the time. sorry but that's just rubbish, you can't tell just by looking at a photo that the dog is healthy. I could show you photo's of my GSD who had severe HD and you would never pick it. In fact I could have shown her to you in the flesh and you still wouldn't have picked it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 I'd love to see photos of the bbs that are apparently healthy and have no problems or even a video. I've searched and searched and have yet to see one. I wouldn't determine the health of a dog via a photo. I'm not sure how anyone could. I've seen enough in real life to know that bbs are at a severe disadvantage. Breeders can justify it all they like but action in a positive direction is much better. I'm glad to see that they are working toward fixing these issues. And photos are great ways to determine health, we use them in a vet nursing assignments all the time. sorry but that's just rubbish, you can't tell just by looking at a photo that the dog is healthy. I could show you photo's of my GSD who had severe HD and you would never pick it. In fact I could have shown her to you in the flesh and you still wouldn't have picked it. agreed.. I can show you a picture of a dog that appears shiny, healthy and active. He was dead less than three weeks later from aggressive cancer. Tell me how you are going to pick that from a photo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 (edited) Photos may be useful for determining some structural, teeth/gum or skin health issues but I can't see them being useful for much else. Edited December 29, 2012 by Haredown Whippets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 (edited) Photos may be useful for determining some structural, teeth/gum or skin health issues but I can't see them being useful for much else. It certainly wouldn't tell you what was wrong with this bitch. Edited December 29, 2012 by Pav Lova Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 The only way you could tell state of health was if there were close ups of body parts that were affected such as skin, teeth etc. like you'd find in text books. There is no way to tell health from a stacked picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mixeduppup Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Obviously I mean skin issues, weight issues, teeth, visual stuff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Who do you think would be putting up pics of their dogs if they had issues bad enough to identify from a photo? There are plenty of brachy dogs that are happy and healthy, they just don't get the same attention as they don't support the AR argument that EVERY brachy dog is unhealthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Obviously I mean skin issues, weight issues, teeth, visual stuff... mostly you can't see teeth in photo's and often can't see skin problems either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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