Look What They Have Done To Our Dogs.

[Sandra777]

I don't know what AR stands for so am missing the gist of your first sentence, but I'm not quite sure why any group would have an interest in the demise of the dog. Do they hate dogs? Or do they hate the idea of companion animals? Either way, surely it'll never take hold - too many dog/animal lovers in the world.

AR is Animal Rights and PETA for one is an AR group with a stated aim of eliminating domestic pets. It has already taken hold.

[murve]

I should have specify which type of Bull dog, you look at the BULL TERRIER, look at the head structurer & then the height, the Bull Terrier has been bred down, where is the stop on the head now to compare with the 1915 & 1920 photo's ?????? my father bred them for quite a no of years.

My step grandmother had British Bull dog back in the mid '70's, her bitches were a little taller,

[Sandy46]

First I am not a she, second I am not into AR or any other extreme body, third this is not my first post. I have been training, showing, trialing and breeding dogs for more than 50 years. So please do not jump to conclusions. I have seen the world of dog breeding and showing change quite a lot over many years. Careful, thoughtful breeding provided us with many excellent dogs and some breeds have benefited a lot from the care that has been lavished on them. As I stated in a previous post the video is low budget, poor quality and not too great all round but it does show some radical changes in a few breeds, changes that are probably not the best for the breed. Some of the early breeds of long hair dogs certainly were clipped for work, the coats being long for winter. But we also tend to show a number of dogs when they are in full coat and not when "Blown" To the inexperienced that does show a certain standard and mindset and judges will not approve of blown coats. It is so easy to criticize for this of for that. There was no attack on breeders intended, nor was it about animal rights. It was a question about where are we going with our breeding programs, are we improving the dogs or are we perpetuating the pretty and making dogs less functional. Are we perpetuating faults because they are admired and judged to be good perhaps? Are we too quick to accept modification of a dogs standard because it is what is being done or accepted by judges? It was intended as a question, not an attack. Over the years we have changed so much for the better of our dogs. cropping, docking, cruelty laws etc. As a community we can take pride in our achievements and our standards, the question is though are we allowing selective breeding in a very few instances that may not be best for those dogs. That is what I gleaned from that video. Nothing more, nothing as radical as that wild accusation and defense. Which was totally uncalled for as there was no attack on anybody here, this is an international thing not us.

[Are You Serious Jo]

I actually said second post, you can go back and see what I said, it will still be there. When I see a thread like this I automatically check the post count of the poster and it was your second post. If you have been showing dogs for as long as you say then you should have a good idea of what is happening. To spread this type of video around does the purebred world no favours. When the public see this sort of thing they extrapolate it to all breeds, especially on top of PDE and other negative propaganda. Have you seen the numbers of puppies bred and the numbers attending shows, it is dropping sharply. People are tired of being called puppy murdering shonks. I don't think domestic dogs will disappear but you'll be hard pressed to find a purebred, they'll all be DDs.

[Bullbreedlover]

gezzz both my great Uncles ran over 2,000 head of sheep on their large properties, they use to run 3 BC's with a herd of over 150 to 500 head of sheep at one time, so if they were to use 1 dog with 3 flighty sheep it would be a romp in the park for these guys :D their BC's were treated as part of the family, they were all groomed on a regular basis.

I had Whippets when I was a kid, dad & I would take them out to farming properties & let them loose on the Rabbits they did extreamly well with manovering & catching. One of our Whippets would also have done well in shows if he was shown.

Yes there is a no breeds that have had their original stanard changed over the many years to the point they just cannot do what the breed was used for : Basset Hound, Shar Pei, Bulldog

are just a couple of the breeds

I should have specify which type of Bull dog, you look at the BULL TERRIER, look at the head structurer & then the height, the Bull Terrier has been bred down, where is the stop on the head now to compare with the 1915 & 1920 photo's ?????? my father bred them for quite a no of years.

My step grandmother had British Bull dog back in the mid '70's, her bitches were a little taller,

There is only ONE TYPE OF BULLDOG. How can you of got the Bulldog and the Bull Terrier mixed up? They are worlds apart. You seemed clear enough in your first post that you were referring to the Bulldog. Now you have changed your story.

[Sandy46]

No need to put it in the public forum that is where it came from. It is all over Facebook, etc.. Yes I spend more time reading here than posting here, so that makes me what?

[Are You Serious Jo]

I don't know, your second post and first thread is saying that a AR type video is food for though, you tell me what that makes you?

[Rebanne]

No need to put it in the public forum that is where it came from. It is all over Facebook, etc.. Yes I spend more time reading here than posting here, so that makes me what?

as was said early in the thread, this video has already been done to death on DOL.

[Sandy46]

I don't know, your second post and first thread is saying that a AR type video is food for though, you tell me what that makes you?

A person with a life who does not attack occasional poster.

[Are You Serious Jo]

That is not an attack, but an observation, there is nothing personal in there, just a presentation of facts.

[Jed]

I dont really have an opinion on this.. but the lack of angulation in the 'bone mouth sharpei's' hind legs at 3:29 is a bit unsettling! Is that normal for a bone mouth sharpei??

the cropped ears on the bone-mouthed sharpei at 6:09 is the thing that unsettled me the most - or did noone else notice it?

Yes both, ears are not a problem - hindquarters are

[Jed]

Hotfurball, you have obviously missed the carry on about AR and dogs.

Ingrid Newkirk, ex president of PETA said

The bottom line is that people don't have the right to manipulate or to breed dogs and cats... If people want toys, they should buy inanimate objects. If they want companionship, they should seek it with their own kind.

Ingrid Newkirk, Animals, May 1993

and

I dont use the word 'pet.' I think its speciesist language. I prefer 'companion animal.' For one thing, we would no longer allow breeding. People could not create different breeds. There would be no pet shops. If people had companion animals in their homes, those animals would have to be refugees from the animal shelters and the streets. You would have a protective relationship with them just as you would with an orphaned child. But as the surplus of cats and dogs (artificially engineered by centuries of forced breeding) declined, eventually companion animals would be phased out, and we would return to a more symbiotic relationship enjoyment at a distance.

Ingrid Newkirk, The Harper's Forum Book, Jack Hitt, ed., 1989, p.223

No one took her seriously, except her followers, who have almost reached their goals. Even bringing "companion animal" into the language instead of "pet" changes the connotation, and you will not see "pet" written anywhere much.

Dog breeders, particularly those over 50, are aware that what AR has planned will come to pass, so they are making hay while they can - you beaut champion imported dogs at huge expense, AI, developing lines at huge expense ..... their last hurrah, as there is not much time left.

Her aims have been fostered by such places as Sydney Uni which wanted to control the way those shonky purebreds were bred, by the English government which has moved legislation in line with Jemima Harrisons' "Pedigree Dogs Exposed" which was an untruthful and sentationalized video on pedigree dogs in England.

Each little nibble into the fancy drives more away - finally there will be no one left and they will blame those damn breeders who walked away!!!

Edited December 27, 2012 by Jed

[hortfurball]

Hotfurball, you have obviously missed the carry on about AR and dogs.

Wow! Scary stuff indeed. Yes, you're right, I missed this. Time for a revivalist movement to counter THAT kind of craziness don't you think? I'm surprised anyone but a handful of extremists would buy into that sort of fanaticism. Well some of us are going the OTHER way. I started with mutts and have moved to a purebred, there's hope yet.

Edited to shorten quote, seeing as it's right above!

Edited December 27, 2012 by hortfurball

[Jed]

:laugh: There are a lot of extremists out there. Here is an article from a US paper. Wayne Pacelle is the president or CEO of HSUS - animal rights. They collect donations for their shelters but don't have any shelters. I think they are currently being examined by congress. As well as "no pets" there is also vegetarianism ....

HSUS CEO drops bid for Tyson board seat

December 26, 2012 By Meghan Grebner 1 Comment

HSUS President and CEO Wayne Pacelle has dropped his bid to run for a seat on Tyson Food’s board. Pacelle announced in October he was seeking the seat to urge Tyson to phase the use of gestation stalls out of its supply chain.

According to MarketWatch.com a HSUS spokeswoman said because of Tyson’s dual-class voting structure, “it’s apparent that the company [Tyson] will use its voting power to reject Mr. Pacelle’s candidacy.”

A spokesman for Tyson confirmed that Pacelle is no longer a board candidate and said “the nomination had zero effect on the company.”

They are on the job 100% of the time. Because dogs seem such a sort of small and harmless activity, and a hobby, no one in dogs "got it" for quite a long time.

I hate saying anything because I sound like a nutter ... but ah, who cares?? :laugh:

[mixeduppup]

All these acronyms, I have to google half of them :laugh:

[The Spotted Devil]

Jed, I'm no AR nutter but there are quite a number of HSUS shelters in the States. The ones I have dealt with are extremely committed to animals in their care, fostering, rescue networks and adoption. Some of them even have special training/adoption programs for pit bull types where the legislation banning them has been repealed. Let's not make the same mistake of tarring everyone with the same brush.

[andrewang]

All these acronyms, I have to google half of them :laugh:

same here. sometimes even google couldn't help. lol

[tdierikx]

No need to put it in the public forum that is where it came from. It is all over Facebook, etc.. Yes I spend more time reading here than posting here, so that makes me what?

... and Facebook is the home of all truths... ?

T.

[megan_]

It is a sad day when everyone who dares question whether we have done the right thing by dogs is branded an AR nut.

I have no doubt that there are extremists out there, but the dog world has let this happen by burying their head in the sand and saying nothing is wrong, most dogs are okay etc. There is no doubt that some breeds are in very big trouble. Why not stand up and fix those issues rather than being in a constant state of denial. If a breed as a whole can't mate and give birth without medical intervention (a csection is major abdominal surgery) then surely we have gone too far? If a dog needs to be kept in sirconditioning lest it can't breath then there is an issue. It a significant number of dogs in a breed need eye surgery because of entropin (sp) then there is an issue. NIMBY doesn't solve these issues.

[becks]

The shar pei with 'cropped ears' would that be the one with an ear folded backwards? All the others have normal enough ears for the breed on that video.