AIRBUS Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 I agree with the calls for getting a lawyer on the case. I'm aware of a case in NSW where a private person gave a dog to someone else who failed to change the microchip details. The dog wandered off and was found by a passer-by who took it to a local vet. The vet checked the chip contacted the original owner who pointed out they had given the dog away years before. He went to retrieve the dog (because he didn't want to see it go to the pound) but the vet had handed the dog over to the "new" owner who made an off the street inquiry. The vet refused to hand over the contact details of the person they gave the dog to because of privacy. You can say what you like about the various people's actions (and I'd probably agree - free to a good home etc) but the legal advice to the original owner was quite clear. He was told by the local council that while the dog was microchipped to him he was responsible for any actions of the dog and any fines etc. Also the vet was formally informed at that they were looking at a possible ten-thousand dollar fine for giving the dog to someone who was not registered as the owner on the microchip. In the RSPCA case they would be in the same position as the vet - if the registered owner (by whatever means is used - council documentation - chips etc) didn't authorize the surrender then the RSPCA has no right to hold the dogs. Any expenses are their problem. Sadly in the eyes of the law dogs are property and if you look at other property the law is simple - you can't hold onto someone's property once a proper demand for it's return has been made by the legal owner - if you do it's theft. If you want to claim expenses - you can bill them - even sue them - but you can't refuse to return their property. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 I don't know what the rules are in SA, but in NSW the animal should be scanned at the time of being handed in and if chipped, the person surrendering needs to show that they are in fact the owner listed on the chip, then formally sign over said dog to the shelter, etc... In states where chipping is not mandatory, it's not necessarily the first thing the shelter is going to check for I suppose - they would most likely take the easy option and assume that the person surrendering the dog is telling the truth about owning the dog. However, in this case, the dogs had been at the shelter for some period of time before they were scanned for a chip, and it has come to light that the person who surrendered them may not have actually been the owner listed on said chips. The fact that the shelter has had someoone working with 2 obviously frightened dogs in that environment really is moot... the person who surrendered the dogs is NOT the owner listed on the chips, and the person who IS listed on the chips wants them back... it should be fairly simple to resolve the issue - but no - now the owner on the chip is being told that they will have to cough up some exhorbitant sum of money for the animals' care whilst in the shelter - or a general member of the public can come adopt the dogs for a paltry $400 for the pair. Please show me where it's not a case of extortion being exercised here? T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Possession is 9/10ths of the law in this instance. If the dog has been given or sold to someone else, the original chipped owner can not make claim. The Council worker was wrong in the advice given I believe AIRBUS. I had an instance where a dog (RIP Lilly 23.12.12) was sold as a puppy to another person. 8 years later that dog ended up in rescue. The chip was still in the breeders name. The breeder had no claim on that dog whatsoever unless they could prove the dog lived with them and was cared for by them. Obviously they couldn't. The receipt of sale was enough to show the dog was not their dog. I've said it before and I will repeat it - microchips do not prove ownership of a dog. Ownership of a dog is proven by evidence showing the dog has been in your possession and cared for by you. Obviously if the animal came into your care illegally, such as it being stolen, the. That would be different. The percentage of error in the chip databases is very high. For this reason alone you couldn't use a microchip as sole evidence of ownership. Microchips are only a registration device, not an ownership statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 (edited) Oops, wrong thread! Edited December 30, 2012 by ~Anne~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indigirl Posted December 30, 2012 Author Share Posted December 30, 2012 Too late, according to the RSPCA bth dogs have been adopted. I am suspicious because they were there with no interest for so long, so I am wondering if they were PTS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyosha Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Perhaps apply through freedom of information for the dog's records? You wouldn't get adopter details obviously, but it would show whether they were pts or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 (edited) Given the RSPCA is a charity is it FOI-able? It's never too late for a lawyer even if it's just for an inquiry Edited December 30, 2012 by Sheridan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Too late, according to the RSPCA bth dogs have been adopted. I am suspicious because they were there with no interest for so long, so I am wondering if they were PTS Send them an email and request the information about the dogs. See if they will put in writing if they were adopted or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indigirl Posted December 30, 2012 Author Share Posted December 30, 2012 But I'm not the registered owner.. Wy should they have to answer my query? The breeder has foundit all too hard and is convinced they have found them a lovely home now etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 But I'm not the registered owner.. Wy should they have to answer my query? The breeder has foundit all too hard and is convinced they have found them a lovely home now etc I didn't say you should. I just assumed the breeder would. If it's all too hard for her then perhaps she should just let it go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ringo Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 For 'owner' of a dog (as property) in New South Wales, refer to section 7 of the Companion Animals Act Gives three definitions of 'owner'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leema Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 I know someone who has submitted FOI requests to the AWL and received them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Link to the FOI information for SA - http://www.archives.sa.gov.au/foi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 (edited) For 'owner' of a dog (as property) in New South Wales, refer to section 7 of the Companion Animals Act Gives three definitions of 'owner'. They're not legal definitions of ownership however. They're definitions of ownership purely under the act. It's a shame the owner has given up. I agree with the freedom of information request although I am not sure it is applicable in this instance? Again, I would put it in writing. Edited December 30, 2012 by ~Anne~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 If you have the chip numbers, then it's probably not all that hard to find someone with enough access to the registries to check whether the dogs have been listed as deceased, or in someone else's name other than the breeder's... they don't have to tell you where they are, the Privacy Act being what it is and all... T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ringo Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Part 1 (5) Dog & Cat Management Act South Australia Definition of owner as far as dogs & cats are concerned for owner Yes it is a legal definition for the enforcement of this act Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indigirl Posted December 31, 2012 Author Share Posted December 31, 2012 I Might follow up on the FOI application ... Thsnks :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loving my Oldies Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 8 days since this thread started. Are the dogs still needing rescue/adoption. Hard to believe a solution can't have been found in this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minimax Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 8 days since this thread started. Are the dogs still needing rescue/adoption. Hard to believe a solution can't have been found in this time. OP has already said the rspca have told them the dogs have been adopted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greylvr Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 I dont understand why this has all fallen on a rescue does the breeder not want to know what happened to the dogs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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