Assistance Dogs Help

[Guest _MADCAT_]

I was just wondering... I have 2 Bullmastiffs and a Great Dane X... my girl Bullmastiff, Dora is 7 months old ... I have severe anxiety and 3 days ago had such a huge panic attack that I actually fainted and my partner had to pull me outside for fresh air, I eventually came to but its been 3 days and I'm not 100%... but as I've been having my freak out moments my puppy Dora has been coming up and gently sitting next to me softly nuzzling me..

She makes me feel really calm and safe... I had to goto the hospital as I didn't feel "apart of my body" it felt like I was on fire or thrown in lava. Eating is scary at the moment which is weird... I've only had anxiety for just over a year but lately its affecting my job as a Support Worker for ParaQuad. They are wonderful and understanding... but I was just wondering is there any places in Adelaide that I could talk to to see if Dora is worthy of an assistant dog.. not like 24/7 with me, just the days I wake up feeling shaky or off.(I can feel the panic attack coming and I run outside for fresh air or I'll get shaky and fall over..)

Sorry for the long post but my life goal is to eventually be a speciality needs dog trainer (since I work so closely with people with disabilities)

If anyone has advice or a name to call it would be greatly appreciated.(I'm only 24 by the way)

Edited December 20, 2012 by _MADCAT_

[yellowdog]

Hi,

Does anyone know about how you would get your own dog (future) trained to be an assistance dog (with full public access rights)?.

Yes I do, why? It would take a lot to fill you in on what to do etc.

Cheers

yellowdog

[Tapua]

May I ask what you are wanting your dog to assit you with? The type of assitance required of the dog will determine which training service might suit you.

Edited December 29, 2012 by Tapua

[mixeduppup]

Try mind dog. My friend goes through them with her own dog. She has to do training and everything, that's generally for psychological disabilities though. I don't know about physical.

Here's their website. http://minddog.org.au/

Edited December 29, 2012 by mixeduppup

[pipsqueak]

Tray www.awaredogs.org.au. . They are based in Qld but I believe help owners to train their own dogs. I could be wrong, but worth checking out.

[Salukifan]

If you've never trained a dog to a high level before, I do wonder how successful how many pet dog owners are at training their own assistance dogs, particularly if the dog has not been sourced for that purpose in particular.

We've had at least one other member here want to train an assistance dog for themselves and as I recall, they failed. More than once.

I suppose it depends on what you're trying to achieve but I'd have thought some one on one assistance from a trainer would have been essential.

[tdierikx]

I can personally vouch for bdierikx's post - way back on page 1 for any actually interested - he has listed a large number of excellent resources for those truly seeking to train an assistance dog.

bdierikx has trained his own assistance dog, and knows what he's talking about with regards to same. He has also assisted others in training their own dogs.

When I saw the original post here, I flung him an email asking if he'd help out with some info for the OP... and I think he's put together a very well considered reply. Hopefully the OP got to read it through before this thread turned into a bit of a mess.

(and, yes, bdierikx is related to me)

T.

[yellowdog]

Sorry for the long post but my life goal is to eventually be a speciality needs dog trainer (since I work so closely with people with disabilities)

If anyone has advice or a name to call it would be greatly appreciated.(I'm only 24 by the way)

Most probably I am too late in replying, get in touch with your council, they should be able to help you on this. Adelaide have a public assess test qualifying dogs in your own state. Sorry but I cannot remember who to get in touch with. The dogs need to be 18 months of age to do take the test but I don't know about your state. cheers Yellowdog :)

[Brookestar]

The Disability Discrimination Act requires dogs to be trained to cover a number of different areas.

Firstly they must alleviate the effects of the disability. Being there for you, making you feel better even if you have anxiety is not going to count. ALL dogs do that ALL the time. Put simply the dog MUST perform tasks that are essential for your disability, ie they guide a person who is blind, alert a person who is deaf to sounds, pick up items for the physically disabled, etc.

They must also be trained to meet health, hygiene and behaviour requirements necessary for an animal to operate in a public place. Ie the training the community has come to expect of guide dogs.

ANY public place can legally ask for proof of that training at any time. If you cannot provide that proof they can legally ask you to leave. The dog must be under effective control at all times and they can be removed if they are not. ALL dogs will break training. You MUST be able to maintain the dogs training and behaviour, health, hygiene, etc, etc. There are hygiene risks to having dogs in public places and you need to consider those things.

South Australia has processes in place to accredit dogs, and Queensland is also accrediting programs and trainers. Queensland will accredit programs and trainers in ANY state. There are programs in other states who do not place dogs in Queensland who are accredited under QLD laws. WHY. Because the Disability Discimination Act says that any dogs accredited by a state and territory government are automatically covered under the act. They will issue state ID cards to people who do not live in QLD.

Other states are watching what is happening and will follow suit. There is a push for the fed's to take over, but as animals are a state issue by the constitution, that becomes much more complicated. States are also responsible for health and disability services under the constitution and so to argue they are disablity or health supports then the states are responsible.

Contrary to popular belief, ALL dogs are allowed in most places. The ONLY places where dogs are LEGISLATIVELY prohibited from being is in places that sell fresh and prepared food. Difference is you cannot legally demand access to public places with a pet, but that does not mean you cannot ask if you can bring the dog in.

ALL Guide, Hearing and Assistance Dogs will experience access refusals on a regular basis. Even fully trained Guide Dogs from the top guide dog programs, who have ID cards issued by the Attorney General still experience regular access disputes. You have to consider how you will handle that. Have to consider all the work involved. Not as simple as just taking the dog everywhere with you. You need to ensure the dog is clean, dry, has toileted, healthy, etc, before you go anywhere at all. A trip to buy a litre of milk can take half an hour of preperation. What will you do when the dog is sick or injured and all dogs will be at some stage? You cannot work a sick or injured dog. If you can go a day without someone coming up and telling you about their dead dog you will be going well. If you can go a day without haveing someone swear at you for having the dog in a public place you are going well. You are guaranteed to have at least once a week, a young child, declare at the top of there voice (screaming), that the person over there has a dog and dogs are not allowed in public places. Everyone will stare at you. Members of the public will take photo's on mobiles with you. Parents will tell the child to go and pat that nice doggy. EVERYONE will believe it is there legal right to know everything about your health and disability.

Laws only require and only ever will require REASONABLE accommodations. Employers will ALWAYS argue, sorry someone we have come in MIGHT be allergic to dogs. Students in TAFE and Uni classes will be totally fearful of dogs. The dog will have to be able to sit through exams, job interviews, etc, all without asking to go to the toilet. Thousands of people have a command to ask the dog to pee before they go to bed. Can you train a dog to toilet exclusively on command, to never ever ask to go to the toilet, even if they are desperate to poo. This is one of the reasons why only some programs are approved for long haul flights, they do not trust the dogs toilet training.

Pet therapy dogs are required to pass a multitude of health tests every 3 months to be allowed in hospitals. While not required of Guide, Hearing and Assistance Dogs as they do not interact with other people, one does have a moral and ethical obligation to do the right thing. Most Guide Dog programs do do such tests on a semi annual basis for good reasons. Dogs can pass diseases onto people.

There is no law that prohibits anyone from putting a sign on their door saying Assistance Dog Trainer. Some of the programs mentioned on this site have done just that. There are many very gullable people who will believe anything they are told. If you do not know how to assess a quality program, then be very very very careful. If the program is not accredited by the QLD government ask why?? The Civil Aviation Safety Authority has to approve any dog to be in the aircraft cabbin. They have given approval to a number or programs, which are those that Virgin that will agree to fly. Qantas will agree to fly just about any dog at all, as long as you provide some proof of training, but that proof must be provided each and every time. If your flight gets cancelled it will take another 14 days to get approval to get the dog on another flight. That will not happen if the dog is from an approved program. Much easier to ensure the dog is from an approved program to begin with.

Guide dog programs began there own breeding programs in the late 1960's. About 50% of dogs make the grade. Many others are very close but not quite there. Given that they have put so much money and time into these dogs they decided to offer them to other people with disailities, and they called them companion dogs. They usually issue about half of them to children who are blind or vision impaired, and the others to people with disabilities. They have no more rights than a pet, although they would all very easily pass any therapy dog test or the like. These are advanced failures - they have passed the health and temperament tests, or done all but a very minor aspect of it. Most enter advanced training and are removed from it. Those that do not get that far are offered back to puppy raisers or sold to the general public as pets. Assistance Dogs Australia offers companion dogs to children, and many of them are task trained to help at home. They do not have public access rights.

Just because someone has approved the dog to begin with does not and never will guarantee that the dog will make the grade. Guide dog programs despite all the best efforts only have 50% make the grade. Even if they temperament test at placement with puppy raisers, even if they are given to Guide Dog Trainers to raise, they still only have a 50% chance of making the grade. The best breeding does not guarantee that the dogs will pass the necessary health checks. If you are going with a program, what health checks are being done on the dog and why?? If they are not doing FULL checks of hips, elbows, eyes, thryoid, kidney tests, etc, WHY? Even the hearing dog program, which uses largely small breeds, still does full hip and elbow x-rays on all dogs. The stress of having to get on and off public transport, walking so long, on hard surfaces, means one needs to ensure that the dogs really are in top shape. ALL dogs can have hip and elbow issues, not just large breed dogs, although they are more common.

Guide Dog programs only breed from dogs that have a 0 score for everything. If they are not perfect in every way they do not breed them. They very carefully monitor food and exercise as puppies, they still have dogs who are removed due to displasia.

no one can guarantee a dogs ability to cope with anything. These dogs are regularly faced with children jumping on them, shoving pencils up noses, having toxic food shoved into there mouths, dogs lunging at growling at them, trollies and prams running into them, people hitting and kicking them, tails pulled, fire crackers set off 50cm in front of there faces etc. Can the dog cope with that. Can you cope with that. The dog cannot growl, just because someone really did hurt it. It can't growl or lunge back at an out of control dog. These things are not tested for in public access tests, but any half decent program does do very stringent temperament tests, ie, those done by Guide Dog Schools, but you MUST be prepared for them. Even then dogs are removed because they later find they cannot cope with them, even though they did pass a stringent temperament test.

There are programs that will certify dogs sight unseen. others that claim you can get a dog from a shelter and have it trained in a matter of months. It is easy to train a dog to pass a test, it is very hard to train a dog to be proofed to the level required, and that needs to happen, they have to be able to do these things when hot, tired, profoundly stressed or the like. I know of hundreds of people who have carfully planned the time of day and place of the test, and prepared the dog for just that. Passed, but could not cope for one second anywhere else. It was trained to pass a test, not to really work in public. Reminds me of my drivers licence. The driving school I was with drove only on test routes, I never ever drove on anything else. They had leggo pieces stuck to the windows for me to line up when parallel parking between the poles. I could not drive into a parking space or do anything else, but I did pass the test. You have to ask if you are willing to put your dog or one who acquire through such things. Very easy to get an ID card, living with the dog on a daily basis is a totally different thing. If is not as simple as taking a dog in pulbic. With rights also come responsiblities.

There are places that these dogs can legally be excluded from. Zoo's are all covered by the quarantine act. ALL food preperation and food serving areas are excluded. You can sit in a resturant, if you work in a nursing home or the like the dog cannot enter the kitchen under any circumstances - if it is found to have occured the nursing home will be closed. They are legally banned from operating theratures and can be excluded from many other areas of hospitals, on a case by case basis. It is not an automatic right to enter most parts of a hospital.

I've been a puppy raiser for a number of programs and have close friends with Guide, Hearing and Assistance Dogs. I am disabled now and will not use a dog. I could not cope with the pressures placed on them or me. Having sid that the dogs, from the top of the top programs take it in there stride and would not consider anything else. I have been known to need to walk away from what is being done to them, simply not coping with the crap being heaped on.

Edited January 6, 2013 by Brookestar

[zeebie]

I do have a QLD certified fully accredited service dog now 9yrs old, his early training pre registration took 2 years of very hard and constant work, his training had to be based on that similar to a customs detection dog and at the time their were not many places in Australia doing this specific type of training for general dogs in the public sector. Through the help of an excellent mentor and having a dog which came from a scenting breed we managed to 'make the grade' and he led the way for many many more service dogs to follow that have now been trained for a specific medical anomaly.

This is the relevant QLD government Public access test for dogs as it currently stands, http://www.communities.qld.gov.au/disability/key-projects/guide-hearing-and-assistance-dogs/public-access-test-pat

when I did the test 7years ago with my current dog it was as per the international public access test and was by far harder and stricter then this current one.There is also a lot of useful information contained on this site.

http://www.assistancedogsinternational.org/standards/public-access-test/

This site may offer insight to people interested in service dogs in NSW this organisation does not certify people's own dogs.

http://www.assistancedogs.org.au/faqs.php

this organisation has a NSW section and may be helpful. they do commit to helping with self training of your own dog, but at a cost, and not always guarantee of passing.

http://www.aiddogs.com.au/recognised.htm

This organisation has already been mentioned and does commit to using owners dogs if suitable.

http://minddog.org.au/the-dogs/

Hope this helps :)

[Brookestar]

I was just wondering... I have 2 Bullmastiffs and a Great Dane X... my girl Bullmastiff, Dora is 7 months old ... I have severe anxiety and 3 days ago had such a huge panic attack that I actually fainted and my partner had to pull me outside for fresh air, I eventually came to but its been 3 days and I'm not 100%... but as I've been having my freak out moments my puppy Dora has been coming up and gently sitting next to me softly nuzzling me..

She makes me feel really calm and safe... I had to goto the hospital as I didn't feel "apart of my body" it felt like I was on fire or thrown in lava. Eating is scary at the moment which is weird... I've only had anxiety for just over a year but lately its affecting my job as a Support Worker for ParaQuad. They are wonderful and understanding... but I was just wondering is there any places in Adelaide that I could talk to to see if Dora is worthy of an assistant dog.. not like 24/7 with me, just the days I wake up feeling shaky or off.(I can feel the panic attack coming and I run outside for fresh air or I'll get shaky and fall over..)

Sorry for the long post but my life goal is to eventually be a speciality needs dog trainer (since I work so closely with people with disabilities)

If anyone has advice or a name to call it would be greatly appreciated.(I'm only 24 by the way)

If you work as a support worker you are entering peoples private homes. Guide, Hearing and Assistance Dogs only have PUBLIC access, not private access, You can not demand or even expect access to anyones personal home. You do not spend years and thousands of hours training to dog to just use sometimes. A dog who is trained to the level of an Assistance Dog relies on working to keep them going. They rely on the stimulation they obtain from working and being in public places. It is not something that they just turn and turn off. Sure they have plenty of time off to be dogs, but they are very highly motivated dogs who thrive on the work they do.

The Dog and Cat Management Board of SA will assess Disability Dogs, providing appropriate evidence is provided. You need to provide evidence from both a GP and a suitable medical specialist, in your case a psychiatrist detailing how the dog is necessary for you to carry out activities of daily living. The dog will also need to pass a temperament and public access test, which generally goes for about 4 hours in length. It is much tougher than other public access tests, but in QLD the certifying trainer is legally responsible for the dog. If the dog does something wrong EVER the trainer or program will loose the right to accredit and place dogs under the legislation. SA does not do that, and allows anyone to have dogs certified, not relying on them being with certain programs, and since the dogs are so unknown, they test them that much more.

This is an information sheet about the situation in SA: http://www.gooddogsa.com/files/InfoSheet[special_Circumstances_Dogs]_2.pdf

A copy of the public access test for SA used to be online, but I cannot find it at present. That is where the 4 hours comes from. You are charged for that test, but the cost of the first 4 hours will be refunded if the dog passes. If you fail the test, then you will not get any money back. If they want more than 4 hours to assess the dog as they are not totally convinced, then you will not be reinbursed for the extra hours. They will provide you with a copy of the public access test before the test. But much of it is not something you can prepare for.

[Brookestar]

when I did the test 7years ago with my current dog it was as per the international public access test and was by far harder and stricter then this current one.

The two tests are testing different things and it would also very much depend on the person doing the testing. And of course after working for 7 years things are very very different than they were when you were just starting out. To me personally the QLD one is much more broad, assesses the dog in more different and appropriate situations. But of course it depends on who is doing the testing. That is the major flaw with any of these tests. There is very very little consistency and the QLD test does not give any real guidance on what is required. I have seen numerous dogs tested with very differing trainers and the differences are profound. The ADI test barely tests for anything, and that is the problem. It might have more guidance on what is required in the settings provided, but it does not require the use of lifts, esculators, buses, trains, etc. Yet these are things that these dogs are exposed to everyday. It was very easy to simply take a dog to a small grocery store and pass the ADI test. That really should not be possible with the QLD test, but of course it will depend on how thorough the tester is. If you are going to give a dog a legal right to be in places that are more likely to be stressful then you really do need to be testing them. But of course that depends on the tester knowing what they should be looking for and haveing some idea of what the dog should be doing, how the dog should be behaving, etc. But knowing the dog can cope in those environments is much more important, than it walking in a straight line. It is the dogs ability to cope with the stress placed on it in public places which is what is important. The other big big difference is that if you read the ADI test, a large number of items are not compulsory. A dog is not required to be able to load or unload from a vehicle and they are not tested on the ability to travel in a car problerly, yet people then want to force taxi drivers to carry the dog. Should anyone be forced to carry a dog that has not had any form of testing to even show it can travel in a car. The non compulsory parts of the ADI test are huge, and is its major flaw, along with not testing the dog in any various situations.

Edited January 6, 2013 by Brookestar