Another One Bites The Dust

[jerry lee]

If you go to enough shows with little competition in your own breed you'll probably eventually get a championship. Aren't these people derisively called 'petrol champions'?

yep

but only if the owner isnt a cliche member,when they are, then it isnt.

What ever,

The judge still signs the CC.

[moosmum]

As show dog said "I know what I would like to say but I would be hung and quartered on here for doing so, I blame part of this problem on the limited register good in theory bad in practice.

thanks to the stupid limit register even people who should know better are telling not only newbies, but themselves, that MAIN REGISTER means the pup can attain champion status and if it doesnt or doesnt always win challenges then take it back to the breeder for a refund.

Even an ex breeder did exactly that know full well main register cant guarantee any such thing, stupidly i GAVE HER THE poor DOG in question, yet when it was nil awarded twice because its adult bottom teeth hadnt come in at the same angle it ws as a pup and ended up level bite instead of scissor as before. even my so called friends who breed, show, AND judge, told me I had to at least give her half what the dog was worth back IF I WANTED TO KEEP MY REPUTATION. She loved it so much she couldnt give it back to me fast enough. Do any of us want to have a pup go to such a one? dumped the second it strayes even a little from perfect? Ive seen numerous champions of less quality than that one, capriole legs, mouths out u name it then you hear you dont fault judge, you look at the good points.

HOW STUPID OF THEM ALL, they cant guarantee their own dogs teeth either the idiots.

I later learned she had acquired another pup and the two played tug a war,,,a guaranteed way to influence the direction of growing teeth. so what was happening to his teeth wasnt genetic anyway. take away the rag and the ropes he would still have correct bite.

he had 60 points already, excellent example of the breed AND was still winning more challanges than nil awards anyway.

these are the people setting or telling others WHAT the example should be, yet do not do it themselves.

had a phone call from a very irate buyer of a pup from the very person who used their authority and status to influence me to go against my better judgement and not tell them all to go jump. the pup sent, sold for show and breeding perposes was so out at the mouth at 8 weeks old no way it was ever going to be any but a pet quality. yet, the learned one no longer was answerin the phone to this buyer or returning calls.

do as i say but not as I do , the showie set are messing the nest themselves, the libbers must be beside themselves with joy.

But this is what I am getting at.There is a community problem and we can't face it as a community.If we refuse to own the problems its about WHO is wrong,not what is wrong.

So every one tries to stay out of the firing line and NOT draw attention to themselves.Whos left to have a public profile?

[asal]

As show dog said "I know what I would like to say but I would be hung and quartered on here for doing so, I blame part of this problem on the limited register good in theory bad in practice.

thanks to the stupid limit register even people who should know better are telling not only newbies, but themselves, that MAIN REGISTER means the pup can attain champion status and if it doesnt or doesnt always win challenges then take it back to the breeder for a refund.

Even an ex breeder did exactly that know full well main register cant guarantee any such thing, stupidly i GAVE HER THE poor DOG in question, yet when it was nil awarded twice because its adult bottom teeth hadnt come in at the same angle it ws as a pup and ended up level bite instead of scissor as before. even my so called friends who breed, show, AND judge, told me I had to at least give her half what the dog was worth back IF I WANTED TO KEEP MY REPUTATION. She loved it so much she couldnt give it back to me fast enough. Do any of us want to have a pup go to such a one? dumped the second it strayes even a little from perfect? Ive seen numerous champions of less quality than that one, capriole legs, mouths out u name it then you hear you dont fault judge, you look at the good points.

HOW STUPID OF THEM ALL, they cant guarantee their own dogs teeth either the idiots.

I later learned she had acquired another pup and the two played tug a war,,,a guaranteed way to influence the direction of growing teeth. so what was happening to his teeth wasnt genetic anyway. take away the rag and the ropes he would still have correct bite.

he had 60 points already, excellent example of the breed AND was still winning more challanges than nil awards anyway.

these are the people setting or telling others WHAT the example should be, yet do not do it themselves.

had a phone call from a very irate buyer of a pup from the very person who used their authority and status to influence me to go against my better judgement and not tell them all to go jump. the pup sent, sold for show and breeding perposes was so out at the mouth at 8 weeks old no way it was ever going to be any but a pet quality. yet, the learned one no longer was answerin the phone to this buyer or returning calls.

do as i say but not as I do , the showie set are messing the nest themselves, the libbers must be beside themselves with joy.

But this is what I am getting at.There is a community problem and we can't face it as a community.If we refuse to own the problems its about WHO is wrong,not what is wrong.

So every one tries to stay out of the firing line and NOT draw attention to themselves.Whos left to have a public profile?

good question.

barring a mirical I dont see a solution , they just wont work together, havent in 40 years, Ive known so many join work their butts off , become breed club secetaries,what ever, raise money for trophies, do months and years of work for the benefit of the breed and the club, then some one with goodness knows what agenda stabs them in the back and Im left with them sobbing wondering "what did I do wrong?" How do I know? because I was usually the one who either gave them a start with a m/r puppy and they wanted to show despite my warnings to enjoy their dog and forget the show scene. or got to know them as they searched for their pup.

Usually I think, they have been winning a bit more than some can put up with, then knives start to slide out. the usual reason for making it too hot to handle. the backstabbing that goes on is incredible.

Ive had many showi friends, but rarely showed, just hated the , o my darling friend one minute, then you know shes unethical u know. and thats just the tame stuff.

Sadly have to take your hat off to the libbers, even if they are busy backstabbing each other, which i expect still goes on, human nature and club culture being what it is. At least they present a united front regardless.

Shame isnt it, that the dog fraternity cant take a leaf from the same book.

Edited December 23, 2012 by asal

[Sheridan]

If you go to enough shows with little competition in your own breed you'll probably eventually get a championship. Aren't these people derisively called 'petrol champions'?

Judges sign the CC that in their opinion the exhibit is worthy of the title "Australian Champion"

All the exhibitor can do is enter & turn up.

The rest is out of their hands.

Thank you for that sterling elocution, steamboat.

[moosmum]

As show dog said "I know what I would like to say but I would be hung and quartered on here for doing so, I blame part of this problem on the limited register good in theory bad in practice.

thanks to the stupid limit register even people who should know better are telling not only newbies, but themselves, that MAIN REGISTER means the pup can attain champion status and if it doesnt or doesnt always win challenges then take it back to the breeder for a refund.

Even an ex breeder did exactly that know full well main register cant guarantee any such thing, stupidly i GAVE HER THE poor DOG in question, yet when it was nil awarded twice because its adult bottom teeth hadnt come in at the same angle it ws as a pup and ended up level bite instead of scissor as before. even my so called friends who breed, show, AND judge, told me I had to at least give her half what the dog was worth back IF I WANTED TO KEEP MY REPUTATION. She loved it so much she couldnt give it back to me fast enough. Do any of us want to have a pup go to such a one? dumped the second it strayes even a little from perfect? Ive seen numerous champions of less quality than that one, capriole legs, mouths out u name it then you hear you dont fault judge, you look at the good points.

HOW STUPID OF THEM ALL, they cant guarantee their own dogs teeth either the idiots.

I later learned she had acquired another pup and the two played tug a war,,,a guaranteed way to influence the direction of growing teeth. so what was happening to his teeth wasnt genetic anyway. take away the rag and the ropes he would still have correct bite.

he had 60 points already, excellent example of the breed AND was still winning more challanges than nil awards anyway.

these are the people setting or telling others WHAT the example should be, yet do not do it themselves.

had a phone call from a very irate buyer of a pup from the very person who used their authority and status to influence me to go against my better judgement and not tell them all to go jump. the pup sent, sold for show and breeding perposes was so out at the mouth at 8 weeks old no way it was ever going to be any but a pet quality. yet, the learned one no longer was answerin the phone to this buyer or returning calls.

do as i say but not as I do , the showie set are messing the nest themselves, the libbers must be beside themselves with joy.

But this is what I am getting at.There is a community problem and we can't face it as a community.If we refuse to own the problems its about WHO is wrong,not what is wrong.

So every one tries to stay out of the firing line and NOT draw attention to themselves.Whos left to have a public profile?

good question.

barring a mirical I dont see a solution , they just wont work together, havent in 40 years, Ive known so many join work their butts off , become breed club secetaries,what ever, raise money for trophies, do months and years of work for the benefit of the breed and the club, then some one with goodness knows what agenda stabs them in the back and Im left with them sobbing wondering "what did I do wrong?" How do I know? because I was usually the one who either gave them a start with a m/r puppy and they wanted to show despite my warnings to enjoy their dog and forget the show scene. or got to know them as they searched for their pup.

Usually I think, they have been winning a bit more than some can put up with, then knives start to slide out. the usual reason for making it too hot to handle. the backstabbing that goes on is incredible.

Ive had many showi friends, but rarely showed, just hated the , o my darling friend one minute, then you know shes unethical u know. and thats just the tame stuff.

Sadly have to take your hat off to the libbers, even if they are busy backstabbing each other, which i expect still goes on, human nature and club culture being what it is. At least they present a united front regardless.

Shame isnt it, that the dog fraternity cant take a leaf from the same book.

Theres also the mentality that says ANKC IS the dog fraternity.There would be better progress made if people can accept the dog fraternity should include anyone you hope will ever come to the KCs.

Expecting them to come to YOU before they can be accepted just isolates you.Isolated,you have no public profile except what others choose to put forth.The experiences of those unaccepted isn't likely to be rosy and they will paint it any colour they see.

That attitude also makes the KCs focus ever more narrow.The conformation shows are all they are left with,and any competition only amongst themselves.

NO,not saying cross breeds should be shown.There are other forms of competition out side the show ring.But good breeding shouldn't be just about pedigrees and show wins.Joe sees a display dog.You want to talk pedigree,Tell him about history and he might start to get it.But there has to be the chance to KEEP making history outside the show ring.

Association with cross breeds doesn't cause them.Not knowing pure breeds might.

Edited December 24, 2012 by moosmum

[asal]

pinched from another forum, similar subject

There are hundreds or pure dog breeds throughout the world' date=' each having been specifically bred to specific traits to suit various human needs from sled pulling to tracking, hunting, retrieving, herding, guarding etc. so I see absolutely [b']no[/b] genuine need to cross breed any & in doing so, there is no guarantee of obtaining specific traits of either parent. The same can be said for cats.

My ideal world would see a well supervised, 'licence only' dog/cat breeding world whereby each puppy was chipped/registered & castrated unless bought for breeding & showing purposes, again, subject to licence. This would alleviate much of the 'discarded' population giving a better chance of rehoming to the lesser numbers in pounds & these being purebred would then be chosen for their known breed traits rather than the present guessing game associated with selecting rescue dogs. Fat chance of this ever taking effect as it's not a vote winner :D

Probably a very flawed ideal so feel free to find fault ...............aa........mindari? :)

the idea is excellent.

the implementation pretty difficult, maybe? impossible.

all the legislation going on already only affects those who are stupid/ethical? (which is it?) enough to have applied for a council kennel license and/or ankc members.

the tens of millions born yearly in backyards all over australia with no way traceable , even the vets know there are entire populations (in this country, not some third world) that do not vaccinate, do not microchip, do not register with council and sell to neighbours, friends, at the pub, signs on telegraph poles, at neighbourhood shops, u name it. legislation to stop anyone advertising a pup in the paper without a breeders license wont have any effect whatever on these...but hey legislate the idiots who obey the law out of existance to 'SAVE' the spawn of the great uncaring..good one

If it becomes a nusince its dumped like the one I saw the other day and dozens more like that every year. If it gets lost, its cheaper to get another pup than go to the pound and have to pay for microchip and lifetime rego. so another dog into rescue with more rights to life than a pedigree that according to aa shouldnt be allowed to be born because it causes one less home vacancy for the likes of the dumped or unwanted lost dogs.

unless its now going to include weekly or at least monthly house to house checks to see who has puppies and confiscated if they dont have the regulatory licence sounds more science fiction than reality. But thats the only way to make it work.

except when did a government take the hard option, especially when that would mean less available funds for overseas junkets and the like woulnt it? eeeek!

Edited December 24, 2012 by asal

[asal]

According to the article he got more money for them than he would have meat off them. So I don't count that as "finding homes". That's just finding profit. Considering that he probably did NOT pay $400 each for them he was making a profit just like anyone else.

This is exactly why' date=' anything that will sell on does not end up in the slaughter pen.

completely different story if its sold to the qld one, they go to the holding yards and trucked to qld.

they cant be bothered with onselling, too many people have sneaked pack to the holding paddocks and stolen what they wanted instead. so they wont let anyone know where they are .

stupid mongrels who do that, make it well nigh impossible for everyone else after doing that.

I did get to buy one from them after I discovered one of mine had ended up there. but it took phone calles direct to the owner and weeks trying to arrange a pickup with the agent here. only massive floods saved him from going, the trucks couldnt get in. even then it was a chance meeting with the agens wife that finally let me get him. her hubby had lost faith and trust with people out to SAVE the horses he bought by stealing them, persistance and luck might get you one from that source but dont count on it.

of course he "was making a profit just like anyone else"

its only dog people who have to promise they are not in it to make money or be tarred and featherd.

how long would you be in business if you were not?

anyone who can make a profit on selling animals has my outright admiration. seems as if no one wants to actually pay a price that covered the costs of breeding,feeding and training for a horse that if its not done properly can kill em in a matter of seconds.

people will pay thousands for a cute puppy that max will have for 10 to 15 if a medium breed 14 to 20 if its a toy breed, yet you could have your horse for 17 to 30 years. weird absolutely weird.

doesnt cost a fraction of the sale price to breed and raise a pup to the same age as it does for a foal

cheap or else .....had em up to the gills.[/quote']

had the strangest thought last night.

the general dislike of knackers , yet they do a necessary job and they shouldnt have to justify making a profit, that is business. you cant pay for groceries with good will.

funeral directors dont have to do the dirty work and put the client down, but gee , now theres a good income earner.

$6,000 for a spot to put a plaque with the ashes under or behind it.

thats not counting the service costs, the cremation costs....

knackers are in the wrong business............

merry christmas everyone.

Edited December 24, 2012 by asal

[tdierikx]

I and thousands like me are quite happy to share our lives with crossbreeds... just as there are thousands of people who prefer the predictability of a pedigreed dog.

I'm not against either being bred, and it's nice to be able to have the amazingly broad choice of breeds or breed mixes available, yes?

At the moment the loudest voices out there are from the animal rights activists... and really not enough countering voices from the purebred groups. The notion that it's too hard to acquire a pedigreed dog of great breeding, or that if one does get one, that they need to be shown or whatever, is still a very popular notion amongst the general public.

So what are the purebreed people doing to quash the claims being made by the activists?

T.

[moosmum]

I believe if KCs were to stop focusing on negatives and blame,they can win the support of the public.they are the only group with enough public profile,support and organisation left to take on the commercial breeders and animal rights groups.

instead we allow them to paint us into a corner.

But they need the public support.

Then the problems can be tackled together,because the problems are universal.Pure breed dogs weren't the invention of the KCs,they were developed in communities,to meet those communities needs. The pedigrees came after Dogs were proved in the community.Locking them in as property of the KCs is never going to work.

If KCS can win support to come out fighting we might be able to turn this around.

As for fears cross breeds will some how take overcome the success of pedigree dogs? Its only in the public light that they can shine.Pedigree dogs are the safest of all! If society sees the value of keeping dogs a community rather than corporate interest,its the KCs who have the knowledge and history of how to breed with clear goals and success,and have to hand reliably breeding stock of known and measurable qualities.

Those will always be essential to a community that can can value dogs into the future.

Hybrid vigour can only occurr by breeding 2 pure breed dogs.anything after 1st cross is back to being a plain mongrel and relies on good,thoughtful breeding as much as any other other dog.

There are more reasons for communities to values pedigree dogs than there are breeds by far.

The focus shouldn't be on whos doing it right,just on making sure we all understand what WE need to do to stay true to our unique history and partnership with dogs,and helping others to understand that too. Or else it seems we will lose a part of our humanity to let dogs go.

Edited December 24, 2012 by moosmum

[asal]

I believe if KCs were to stop focusing on negatives and blame,they can win the support of the public.they are the only group with enough public profile,support and organisation left to take on the commercial breeders and animal rights groups.

instead we allow them to paint us into a corner.

But they need the public support.

Then the problems can be tackled together,because the problems are universal.Pure breed dogs weren't the invention of the KCs,they were developed in communities,to meet those communities needs. The pedigrees came after Dogs were proved in the community.Locking them in as property of the KCs is never going to work.

If KCS can win support to come out fighting we might be able to turn this around.

As for fears cross breeds will some how take overcome the success of pedigree dogs? Its only in the public light that they can shine.Pedigree dogs are the safest of all! If society sees the value of keeping dogs a community rather than corporate interest,its the KCs who have the knowledge and history of how to breed with clear goals and success,and have to hand reliably breeding stock of known and measurable qualities.

Those will always be essential to a community that can can value dogs into the future.

Hybrid vigour can only occurr by breeding 2 pure breed dogs.anything after 1st cross is back to being a plain mongrel and relies on good,thoughtful breeding as much as any other other dog.

There are more reasons for communities to values pedigree dogs than there are breeds by far.

The focus shouldn't be on whos doing it right,just on making sure we all understand what WE need to do to stay true to our unique history and partnership with dogs,and helping others to understand that too. Or else it seems we will lose a part of our humanity to let dogs go.

I for one anyway, think your idea is a great one.

Although I have to say, when the phone rings now and its someone looking for a pup, the joy I feel in being able to say, sorry I am retired now, give them some phone numbers of other breeders, then relax knowing have passed the danger onto someone else to supply them a pup is amazing.

so much has changed in attitude to a breeder from 40 years ago and so have the breeders attitudes, you have more chance of finding snow in sydney than a breeder willing to sell a M/R pup to a newbie.

[asal]

Moosesmum you have it so right.

there are still 'breeds' that are still flourishing which have never been applied for KC recognition..

GERMAN COOLIES for a start.

they are the founding "breed" for the Aussie Shepherd that boomeranged back from America some 100 years later after the original dogs arrived in yanki land with a shipload of aussie sheep.

then theres the new kid on the block, the mini foxi.

yes they have been applied for and slid into the KC as a breed now (tenterfield terrior), but they were created and developed by people who loved their foxi's but wanted a smaller version they are a very 'new breed' one of my chihuahua males was used by one of the early creaters to scale down her foxies, a friend over the road has been breeding his descended from his foxi bitch (not a pedigreeed ancestor in her far as he knew) and a very off type foxi looking chi boy that turned up in one of my litters, Im saying to him, what on earth went wrong with this pup, hes opening his wallet letting the moths out in his haste to buy him????

that was 30 years ago, his pups sell like hot cakes to the neighbourhood. hes never bothered to get his rebadged as tenterfield terriors.

You have it spot on.

Edited December 25, 2012 by asal

[Jed]

Hybrid vigour can only occurr by breeding 2 pure breed dogs

Somehow,because Don Burke said the above, it has moved into a popular belief. Hybrid vigour occurs when one species is mated with another (lion x tiger etc). The info is on the net about breeding one dog breed to another, but if you check the proper scientific information, it is incorrect.

If you cross a linebred dog with an outcross, you often get stunning pups, same if you cross one linebred example with another from a different line.

[mixeduppup]

Almost all maltese I've ever met are not actually maltese, just a small, fluffy (sometimes all white) little dog. Maltese is just a word to describe any swf in my area. I don't think anyone knows what a real malt is. I've only ever seen one.

[moosmum]

Hybrid vigour can only occurr by breeding 2 pure breed dogs

Somehow,because Don Burke said the above, it has moved into a popular belief. Hybrid vigour occurs when one species is mated with another (lion x tiger etc). The info is on the net about breeding one dog breed to another, but if you check the proper scientific information, it is incorrect.

If you cross a linebred dog with an outcross, you often get stunning pups, same if you cross one linebred example with another from a different line.

Yep,I agree. Technicaly,they are not hybrids at all,or they would be sterile.But the "invigoration" happens.

[moosmum]

Almost all maltese I've ever met are not actually maltese, just a small, fluffy (sometimes all white) little dog. Maltese is just a word to describe any swf in my area. I don't think anyone knows what a real malt is. I've only ever seen one.

My brother in South Africa tells me SWF are called Poodles there.

Edited December 25, 2012 by moosmum

[mixeduppup]

Almost all maltese I've ever met are not actually maltese, just a small, fluffy (sometimes all white) little dog. Maltese is just a word to describe any swf in my area. I don't think anyone knows what a real malt is. I've only ever seen one.

My brother in South Africa tells me SWF are called Poodles there.

It may well be a location and cultural thing. Any SWF is just a maltese or MaltX here.

[tdierikx]

Almost all maltese I've ever met are not actually maltese, just a small, fluffy (sometimes all white) little dog. Maltese is just a word to describe any swf in my area. I don't think anyone knows what a real malt is. I've only ever seen one.

If you come to Sydney, I can take you to visit my friend... she has 15 pedigreed and beautiful Maltese... and she doesn't need a doorbell... lol!

T.

[mixeduppup]

I'd love to actually spend time and meet a 'proper' maltese, to see their actual nature. I've had a few older people ask about companion dogs and I have tentatively suggested a pedigreed malt by reading the breed description online, but I hope to one day have a proper meeting with some to learn more about them. The "maltese" here, vary so much in shape, temp and type.

[tdierikx]

You could get complete Maltese overload at my friend's house... 15 lovey little dogs all wanting to sit on your lap or just get cuddles in any way they can...

T.

[mixeduppup]

Sounds like fun. We currently have 7 dogs here of various sizes and I love nothing better than sitting on the ground and being pummeled, it's my idea of heaven. :laugh: