Another One Bites The Dust

[minimax]

Amazing. So how do you figure out if somebody has double accounts? Looks like Troy ha his work cut out for him!

Because they are equally moronic regardless of which account they use to post

[Loving my Oldies]

I thought steamboat didn't like bull breeds? Or was it mixed breeds? Or am I confusing them with m-sass now? Multi-accounts are so confusing!

No, it's mixed breeds Steamboat doesn't like (per m-sass). Steamboat has a staffy, jerry lee has a staffy, both write in the same way, particularly the accusing people of a conspiracy thing when someone has simply disagreed with his point of view.

I didn't realise that jerry lee was Steamboat, no point in discussing the matter any further then, a complete waste of time :laugh:

Actually now jerry lee has got his knickers in a bit of a knot the posting style does seems familiar.

Picked it a while ago. Look at the overreaction to my saying terriers are too hard. Demands to know why I said it and then when he doesn't get a response, says people have a problem with my posts.

Well, it is all a mystery to me, but I am sure you have alerted the moderators if you picked up that some one was using multiple whatzits??

[Crisovar]

JerryLee, we get that you are a terrier fan, but you need to accept that all breeds/types have pros & cons.

Terriers have very forceful personalities that require a certain kind of owner or problems can develop.

My next door have a Maltese. It's a real PITA. Cute as a button & one of the most vicious dogs I know.

Bad combo that seems quite common for the breed. Possibly why they aren't as common as they used to be.

I groom a few Maltese from good reg ANKC Breeders, they are true to the Breed being sweet tempered. Far cry from the generic SWF that can be bought on any street corner.

[Steve]

Maltese arent terriers are they?

[Salukifan]

Maltese arent terriers are they?

Nope. They are a Toy breed from the Bichon family.

[SkySoaringMagpie]

OK, so breed and group clubs can have flawed people in them? So what? What endeavour in life doesn't? Plenty of the people whinging from the sidelines about how the clubs aren't totally perfect are also flawed. The difference is only that some people get over it and get on with it - and others don't.

I agree with HW, so far I've not seen enormous privilege come my way from being a secretary for two dog clubs. I have seen whinging, hassle and a ton of hard work. I do it because I think I'm making a contribution.

And, bearing in mind I am not a toy person and know bugger all about toy politics, sometimes clubs fold because the alternative is worse. I would rather see a club fold out of a lack of suitable, honest volunteers than see yet another "shell" club that is just about setting up appointments for their mates.

[moosmum]

That is true. From my experience at a shelter, the general public see purebred dogs as being out of their league, unaccessible. That's why they go to a pet shop or BYB.

And sometimes they see purebred dog breeders as having no right to question their fitness for puppy ownership, or they don't want to wait. So off to the Trading Post or Gumtree or the pet shop they go.

Given that the existing number of ANKC breeders don't have any problem placing the pups they breed, what's the point in generating demand for pups that simply don't exist? Breeders aren't fading away because they can't sell their pups.

Maybe we need to encourage those breeding responsibly to keep doing it before we ramp up demand. Imposing legislation that treats them identically to puppy farmers ain't the way to go from where I sit.

replied to this last night and lost it but been thinking on it since.I'm not an optimistimist,but looking for solutions and causes,trying to see where we are headed and seeing only 2 possible out comes.

1) sees increasing legislation and restrictions ending with dog ownership going just where we don't want it.The way of every thing else these days.If theres profit in it,its a commodity to exploit.Legislate it into a trained,licensed, profession.Corner the market,franchise etc.An investment oportunity.Not far fetched at all when you look at what else has gone this way.ie child care.

The divisions and misinformation in the dog world are pushing us closer to this.

2) Sees people claiming dogs as a community issue and responsibility.A common cause and interest.For that to ever happen,there needs to be a single body to speak for and regulate,educate and provide a meeting point and social oportunities for all the various groups with out pushing any 1 agenda.A sort of ombudsman to promote responsible dog ownership and practices,education,research,law etc.

Maybe ANKC isn't the right choice for that job,Its too far from their purpose. But they would need to be a part of it and are ahead of most other groups.I could see a lot of benefits in it for them if they were a big part.

For example,what if,through news letters,gatherings,education and peer pressure,a buyer was taught that being grilled by a seller is par for the course with ANY responsible,caring breeder? If ALL sources of dogs were going to be doing the same?

As it stands,average Joe,who is most numerous,has no sense of belonging to any community and is powerless to influence direction apart from signing the latest poorly thought out petition.I think theres a huge opening there and would hope it doesn't come from a purely commercial interest.

We need organisation and unity to promote best practice in all areas,and average Joe needs to be included.ATM,hes only aware of what any one interest group is pushing the loudest,and nothing about basic issues at all.Try to change that ATM and another group will only tell him different.

Edited December 21, 2012 by moosmum

[Christina]

I honestly think the demise of this breed in popularity is completely due to the celebrity & media promoting the designer dog/cross breed hybrid vigour crap over so many years.

Love the Maltese as a breed but would be so scared where a pup may end up with it being one of those in big demand. Well was, hardly any left now. This is so sad. There won't be any of this gorgeous breed left soon

The breed clubs are great, so miss the poodle club in SA. We don't have one now but years ago they were a fun day out. I do think that breed clubs should only be for that breed, not cross bred. The idea of having a club is to promote the breed not mutate it.

[espinay2]

I think one of the issues with breed clubs is that they do take dedication to run, but for the 'average person', they just want to join a club and get something out of it. I know myself on the odd occasion I have been slack rejoining a club (talking breed clubs not just for dogs here) as I didn't see the 'worth' in it for me personally (particularly in time of competing priorities for funds). I have been on the other end of the stick too, trying to do the work on committee to keep the club functioning and trying to work out ways to get and keep people involved. I personally don't know what the answer is and I guess it all comes down to what any breed club is actually there for - what their aims are (and how much of those aims and attitudes are about people giving to the club versus the club giving to people). And whether there is going to be a strong base of people there to support its continued running or not who can provide a service to encourage those other members. I agree that we may need to start thinking outside the box rather than try and stick to the way things have always been done. We can change things without degrading the message.

Having a 'smaller' breed I know how difficult it can be. While our registration numbers are small though (around 50 per year on average) they have remained reasonably constant (with occasional ups and downs) since the 1980's. A breed like the Maltese though is IMO a 'bellwether' breed for the state of purebred dogs as a whole and we need to all take heed of what is happening here. What can be done to prevent this type of thing or turn it around? We KNOW SWF are popular. So what are the reasons that purebred registered Maltese are not? Is it (lack of or poorly focussed) marketing? Something to do with the dogs themselves? The expectations in regards to showing and coat? An aging breeder population? Are the breeders there and not breeding, or are there less breeders? WHY are they not breeding or WHAT made them get out? (survey?) I really think we need to know, for all our breeds sake.

[mita]

Well bred purebred Malts are wonderful little dogs, very smart and quite easy to train. I have never seen an aggressive one and had a friend who used to successfully trial several in obedience. I cannot see what you could improve on by crossbreeding them.

An example. About 18 months ago, an elderly lady in Brisbane had to go into a nursing home at short notice. She owned a purebred Maltese boy. Her daughter was unable to take him in, so I put her on to an experienced small dog rescue.

That rescuer, after fostering him, said he was the best small dog she'd ever had... sensible, biddable, confident & gentle with people, and affectionate. Before, she'd always said the best small dog she'd had was a Tibbie!!! So i'm 'fessing up that the Malt boy knocked a Tibbie off top spot! Moi.... a Tibbie Tragic. :)

At same time, a nurse was looking for a small companion dog that would be suitable to take with her to the nursing home where she worked three days a week. Nursing home management checked the Malt boy out... and he passed with full approval.

He now has a wonderful life, with his new 'mum' and being the perfect 'visitor' for the elderly people.

Registered Maltese breeder (whoever you were)... take a bow & keep up the good work!!!

BTW Wish I'd kept his photo. He was also the most gorgeous looking creature.

Edited December 21, 2012 by mita

[Guest crickets]

That is true. From my experience at a shelter, the general public see purebred dogs as being out of their league, unaccessible. That's why they go to a pet shop or BYB.

And sometimes they see purebred dog breeders as having no right to question their fitness for puppy ownership, or they don't want to wait. So off to the Trading Post or Gumtree or the pet shop they go.

Given that the existing number of ANKC breeders don't have any problem placing the pups they breed, what's the point in generating demand for pups that simply don't exist? Breeders aren't fading away because they can't sell their pups.

Maybe we need to encourage those breeding responsibly to keep doing it before we ramp up demand. Imposing legislation that treats them identically to puppy farmers ain't the way to go from where I sit.

replied to this last night and lost it but been thinking on it since.I'm not an optimistimist,but looking for solutions and causes,trying to see where we are headed and seeing only 2 possible out comes.

1) sees increasing legislation and restrictions ending with dog ownership going just where we don't want it.The way of every thing else these days.If theres profit in it,its a commodity to exploit.Legislate it into a trained,licensed, profession.Corner the market,franchise etc.An investment oportunity.Not far fetched at all when you look at what else has gone this way.ie child care.

The divisions and misinformation in the dog world are pushing us closer to this.

2) Sees people claiming dogs as a community issue and responsibility.A common cause and interest.For that to ever happen,there needs to be a single body to speak for and regulate,educate and provide a meeting point and social oportunities for all the various groups with out pushing any 1 agenda.A sort of ombudsman to promote responsible dog ownership and practices,education,research,law etc.

Maybe ANKC isn't the right choice for that job,Its too far from their purpose. But they would need to be a part of it and are ahead of most other groups.I could see a lot of benefits in it for them if they were a big part.

For example,what if,through news letters,gatherings,education and peer pressure,a buyer was taught that being grilled by a seller is par for the course with ANY responsible,caring breeder? If ALL sources of dogs were going to be doing the same?

As it stands,average Joe,who is most numerous,has no sense of belonging to any community and is powerless to influence direction apart from signing the latest poorly thought out petition.I think theres a huge opening there and would hope it doesn't come from a purely commercial interest.

We need organisation and unity to promote best practice in all areas,and average Joe needs to be included.ATM,hes only aware of what any one interest group is pushing the loudest,and nothing about basic issues at all.Try to change that ATM and another group will only tell him different.

You have pretty much echoed exactly my thoughts Moosmum!

[Jed]

Animal Rights said that ethical breeders would only breed when they wanted something for themselves.

That entered the culture of dog breeding, so where once breeders would have a litter or two to supply pets to nice families, and help others into the fancy, as they saw that as part of being responsible breeders - helping others to buy and enjoy their breeds - they then changed to only breeding for themselves --- which may have meant a litter once a year - or twice. So numbers bred Australia wide, fell to 299.

Additionlly maltese are beloved of puppy farming, so breeders either bred less to stop bitches falling to into the hands of puppy farmers, or desexed before sale, but were in every case, very careful where pups went. And who could blame them?

Those thousands of people (the public) who are buying oodles and maltese x have no hope of getting a purebred maltese - there are simply not enough being bred

So there are not enough people to run breed clubs, to work to run shows - and gradually the fancy disappears.

Edited December 21, 2012 by Jed

[asal]

I don't think many of the pet owners that are members of affiliated trianing clubs even know that there is an affiliation, or what that means.

Ask the average mum or dad or first time dog owner down at the local club about the ANKC I bet they'd say 'what, who?' . This is what I'd like to see change. If the pure breed dog fraternity want people to take more interest in them, they need more people to know who they are. While the dog world is divided into 'us & them' well that is the way it will stay.

My ideas aren't unique, and they aren't going to be the only way forward, but unless new thinking is at least thought about & discussed, there is no new horizon.

And yes regarding the right of dog ownership, I agree entirely....but what better place to educate ordinary folk by encouraging them into the world of purebreed dogs. But they need to feel like they belong there and that there is something on offer for them. Lets face it, would any of us want to join an organisation that didn't want us to bring our pedigree dogs along?

trouble is doing that is something of a minefield for the puppy buyer, go to a show with their new puppy if it came from a breeder tht doesnt show, can find them being told its a crossbred and they have been dudded.

the purebred worlds greatest enemies are not just the animals libbers but the self labled 'ethicals' they are so busy destroying the reputation and name of anyone they either dont like personally or have decided doesnt fit their notions of ethical they are too selfish to realise they not only destroy the reputation and credibility of any other registered breeder but themselves as well to the hapless victums whose only crime was to purchase a pup from someone who isnt a clique member, it was happening in the 70's when Elfreda kennel puppy buyers received an icy reception and sady is still going on today.

I still enjoy remembering the realisation of what they have just been tricked (its a fact that some adolecant puppies like adolescant teens go through some real unglies periods, aka the ugly duckling story) by the two people who where suckered in to agreeing a newbies pup was a x bred and called me to either replace with a show quality pup or return the purchase price that they bred the parents.... I know who was laughing fit to wet themselves, the breeder to set them up and disliked both, and me and didnt realise who I got the parents from in the first place.

the self proclaimed ETHICALS are helping the animal libbers destroy themselves, I doubt they have the brains to ever see it for themselves.

.

Edited December 22, 2012 by asal

[asal]

Animal Rights said that ethical breeders would only breed when they wanted something for themselves.

That entered the culture of dog breeding, so where once breeders would have a litter or two to supply pets to nice families, and help others into the fancy, as they saw that as part of being responsible breeders - helping others to buy and enjoy their breeds - they then changed to only breeding for themselves --- which may have meant a litter once a year - or twice. So numbers bred Australia wide, fell to 299.

Additionlly maltese are beloved of puppy farming, so breeders either bred less to stop bitches falling to into the hands of puppy farmers, or desexed before sale, but were in every case, very careful where pups went. And who could blame them?

Those thousands of people (the public) who are buying oodles and maltese x have no hope of getting a purebred maltese - there are simply not enough being bred

So there are not enough people to run breed clubs, to work to run shows - and gradually the fancy disappears.

spot on.

unfortunately doesnt seem like many people have the brains to turn it around. too scared of being deemed unethical if they dont follow the "party line" and too slow to realise the line didnt come from fellow breeders in the first place.

it is amazing how many people follow like lambs to the slaughter and never question who is leading the line?

[grace]

I bought my first pedigree dog back in the 70's I was given her registration paper, pedigree and twelve months membership to the breed club. I remained a member of that club for a few years. Around four years ago I decided to join the club of my present breed and having some time on my hands was looking to be involved in some way. I was greatly disapointed never received a receipt for the membership so had no idea when renewal was and only received one news letter (no mention of renewal in that one) needless to say I never renewed membership and the club lost someone that really wanted to be involved.

[mita]

Just like any kind of organisation, the quality & endurance, depends on the people who are willing and able to step up to do all the volunteer work & effort required to run a breed club well.

As a pet owner, over many years, I've been fortunate in the handful of breed clubs I've had direct experience with.

Sheltie Club of Q'ld. Extraordinary people from the first time I met them. From what I've heard, still are.

Poodle Club of Q'ld. More extraordinary people. What they did to provide all the support for RSPCA -seized 100 +poodles in dreadful state, was awesome.

Tibetan Spaniel Association of Victoria, Tibetan Spaniel Club of NSW & Tibetan Spaniel Club of America. Just as long-running as the other two & exceptional in what they offer to their breed & to anyone who owns one of them. I've always known how helpful the Australian clubs are, but was amazed to get informative emails from US breeders, too, when one of my little dogs had a persisting tummy upset.

Edited December 23, 2012 by mita

[asal]

As show dog said "I know what I would like to say but I would be hung and quartered on here for doing so, I blame part of this problem on the limited register good in theory bad in practice.

thanks to the stupid limit register even people who should know better are telling not only newbies, but themselves, that MAIN REGISTER means the pup can attain champion status and if it doesnt or doesnt always win challenges then take it back to the breeder for a refund.

Even an ex breeder did exactly that know full well main register cant guarantee any such thing, stupidly i GAVE HER THE poor DOG in question, yet when it was nil awarded twice because its adult bottom teeth hadnt come in at the same angle it ws as a pup and ended up level bite instead of scissor as before. even my so called friends who breed, show, AND judge, told me I had to at least give her half what the dog was worth back IF I WANTED TO KEEP MY REPUTATION. She loved it so much she couldnt give it back to me fast enough. Do any of us want to have a pup go to such a one? dumped the second it strayes even a little from perfect? Ive seen numerous champions of less quality than that one, capriole legs, mouths out u name it then you hear you dont fault judge, you look at the good points.

HOW STUPID OF THEM ALL, they cant guarantee their own dogs teeth either the idiots.

I later learned she had acquired another pup and the two played tug a war,,,a guaranteed way to influence the direction of growing teeth. so what was happening to his teeth wasnt genetic anyway. take away the rag and the ropes he would still have correct bite.

he had 60 points already, excellent example of the breed AND was still winning more challanges than nil awards anyway.

these are the people setting or telling others WHAT the example should be, yet do not do it themselves.

had a phone call from a very irate buyer of a pup from the very person who used their authority and status to influence me to go against my better judgement and not tell them all to go jump. the pup sent, sold for show and breeding perposes was so out at the mouth at 8 weeks old no way it was ever going to be any but a pet quality. yet, the learned one no longer was answerin the phone to this buyer or returning calls.

do as i say but not as I do , the showie set are messing the nest themselves, the libbers must be beside themselves with joy.

Edited December 23, 2012 by asal

[Sheridan]

If you go to enough shows with little competition in your own breed you'll probably eventually get a championship. Aren't these people derisively called 'petrol champions'?

[jerry lee]

If you go to enough shows with little competition in your own breed you'll probably eventually get a championship. Aren't these people derisively called 'petrol champions'?

Judges sign the CC that in their opinion the exhibit is worthy of the title "Australian Champion"

All the exhibitor can do is enter & turn up.

The rest is out of their hands.

[asal]

If you go to enough shows with little competition in your own breed you'll probably eventually get a championship. Aren't these people derisively called 'petrol champions'?

yep

but only if the owner isnt a cliche member,when they are, then it isnt.

Edited December 23, 2012 by asal