What Breed

[Kavik]

I understand HW's point. She didn't say they couldn't do agility, just that they aren't the ideal build. I have a GSD and while GSDs can do agility, most of the GSD people I have spoken to (breeders, owners, enthusiasts) agree that they are not an ideal breed to do competitive agility with due to their size and weight.

[minimax]

I wouldn't recommend a stafford as a good agility prospect on a weight for height basis. Sure, some do it but you'd struggle to maintain soundness in a lot of dogs.

Frankly, as others have said, you won't keep any pup sound if it free runs with your Dobermanns

The tone of your posts suggest you don't think very highly of the SBT.

That's o'k, not everyone likes every breed.

But you comments regarding height to weight show you don't know enough about the breed to comment on them at all.

Look & learn.

Kinda have to agree here. (And so glad someone put up the clip of my old breed club :))

I was just about to say - what Staffords have you been observing Haredown Whippets? :) Height to weight? Really? :)

I can name several Staffords that have gained top agility titles.

But I have to agree with Sandra777. A Stafford probably wouldn't be the best choice in this particular case.

Did you listen to the commentary?

That was very interesting.

Most, if not all dogs live in multi dog homes, & not just staffies only homes.

What would be of interest to the O.P. is one lives with a dobermann & two chihuahuas, interesting combination.

Another was usually handled by an eleven year old girl who was unavailable on that day.

As a staffy person you must have been impressed by Mouse, the white boy with the black eye patch. He has junior warrants in both agility & conformation.

A little girl, Mia from memory, is a member of GB's agility team.

Not bad for a breed ''unsuitable'' for agility.

There was a couple of oldies in there also, both past ten. Bloody marvellous.

Plus three or four rescues.

I know pugs with agility titles too, doesn't mean every pug is suitable for agility. Same in this situation. Just because some staffys have titles and are suitable, doesn't mean they all are.

[jerry lee]

I understand HW's point. She didn't say they couldn't do agility, just that they aren't the ideal build. I have a GSD and while GSDs can do agility, most of the GSD people I have spoken to (breeders, owners, enthusiasts) agree that they are not an ideal breed to do competitive agility with due to their size and weight.

The point is HW's point is an uninformed point. It's the uninformed point of those who think that SBT's are muscle bound house bricks.

Nothing could be farther from the truth.

Muscular? definately, but athletic muscular.

Have a look at the video & see the ''build'' that is ripping the course up.

Not only ideal. Pretty well perfect. Seeing is believing.

There are plenty of dogs suited to the activity.

The SBT is one.

I do agree with you tho. Larger breeds like the GSD aren't suitable. They would struggle in the tunnel for a start. & the sharp turns would test them. It is a time trial after all.

It's the smaller more athletic & agile dogs forte.

I have a little girl at home, who when she was five months old could jump onto a regulation height table from a standing start. Looked up, jumped up....did it easily..not a problem.

I soon put a stop to that.

[jerry lee]

I know pugs with agility titles too, doesn't mean every pug is suitable for agility. Same in this situation. Just because some staffys have titles and are suitable, doesn't mean they all are.

Assuming we are talking about healthy sound animals.

The only ''some'' would be those whose owners aren't interested.

They are a robust, athletic, agile breed.

They are all up for it if their owners are.

They love to please, they love to run & jump.

They're built for the job.

No reason why every sound healthy pug couldn't do the job either, given the chance.

It's all about the dedication of the owner, the dogs are ready & waiting.

[Kavik]

I understand HW's point. She didn't say they couldn't do agility, just that they aren't the ideal build. I have a GSD and while GSDs can do agility, most of the GSD people I have spoken to (breeders, owners, enthusiasts) agree that they are not an ideal breed to do competitive agility with due to their size and weight.

The point is HW's point is an uninformed point. It's the uninformed point of those who think that SBT's are muscle bound house bricks.

Nothing could be farther from the truth.

Muscular? definately, but athletic muscular.

Have a look at the video & see the ''build'' that is ripping the course up.

Not only ideal. Pretty well perfect. Seeing is believing.

There are plenty of dogs suited to the activity.

The SBT is one.

I do agree with you tho. Larger breeds like the GSD aren't suitable. They would struggle in the tunnel for a start. & the sharp turns would test them. It is a time trial after all.

It's the smaller more athletic & agile dogs forte.

I have a little girl at home, who when she was five months old could jump onto a regulation height table from a standing start. Looked up, jumped up....did it easily..not a problem.

I soon put a stop to that.

There is a Great Dane doing agility, and is fantastic! But if I was choosing a breed for agility, they would not be the top of my list. Same for SBT,as I said I have friends with SBT crosses which are awesome. If they were 'perfect' and 'ideal' for agility than all the top handlers would have them. What do the top handlers have the world over - Border Collies. There is nothing mean spirited about it, and I don't believe HW meant it that way either.

Edited December 18, 2012 by Kavik

[Salukifan]

Assuming we are talking about healthy sound animals.

The only ''some'' would be those whose owners aren't interested.

They are a robust, athletic, agile breed.

They are all up for it if their owners are.

They love to please, they love to run & jump.

They're built for the job.

No reason why every sound healthy pug couldn't do the job either, given the chance.

It's all about the dedication of the owner, the dogs are ready & waiting.

No it isn't just about the dedication of the owner. It's about the structural suitability of the dog for the job asked of it. The fact that they'll try till they break shouldn't mean you ignore that some breeds are not ideally suited for some dog sports.

Staffords carry three times the weight of some dogs competing at the same height. Some will be jumping 400 - a big ask for such a breed. Constant landing on slightly turned out feet stresses ligaments and joints. Their stifle construction can make them prone to cruciate ligament rupture so tight turns and constant wear will challenge their structural integrity. Some of their fronts are narrower than the dog walk plank they have to negotiate. This is a job they are NOT built for.

I'd no more recommend a SBT as a likely agility prospect than I'd recommend taking up weight pulling with a Whippet.

Horses for courses.

Braccy breeds like Pugs struggle in agility in all but the mildest weather.

It's no insult to a breed to point out that some activities will be challenging for it. I've seen enough dogs and owners struggle in classes to steer folk away from some breeds and towards those better suited. And that's not an insult to the dogs - its an interest in their welfare.

Uninformed? How many dogs have you titled in agility Jerry Lee? How many handlers and dogs have you trained? The ONLY purebred SBT I know of that commenced training couldn't get across the dog walk. Too narrow for it. Of course that was before you could just do jumping.

I appreciate that people are passionate advocates for their breed of choice but no one should be blind to the limitations that certain structures have. The dogs can suffer as a result.

Edited December 18, 2012 by Haredown Whippets

[minimax]

Assuming we are talking about healthy sound animals.

The only ''some'' would be those whose owners aren't interested.

They are a robust, athletic, agile breed.

They are all up for it if their owners are.

They love to please, they love to run & jump.

They're built for the job.

No reason why every sound healthy pug couldn't do the job either, given the chance.

It's all about the dedication of the owner, the dogs are ready & waiting.

Uh, they are not built for the job, physically or temprament wise!

As HW said, even a we'll bred pug would struggle in the breathing department during an agility run.

Plus have you ever tried to get a pug to go in a tunnel or over a jump when it didn't want to? They are the most stubborn creatures, and for no reason will often decide to forget what that piece of equipment is for.

Trust me, pugs are not built for agilty!

[jerry lee]

Assuming we are talking about healthy sound animals.

The only ''some'' would be those whose owners aren't interested.

They are a robust, athletic, agile breed.

They are all up for it if their owners are.

They love to please, they love to run & jump.

They're built for the job.

No reason why every sound healthy pug couldn't do the job either, given the chance.

It's all about the dedication of the owner, the dogs are ready & waiting.

No it isn't just about the dedication of the owner. It's about the structural suitability of the dog for the job asked of it. The fact that they'll try till they break shouldn't mean you ignore that some breeds are not ideally suited for some dog sports.

Staffords carry three times the weight of some dogs competing at the same height. Some will be jumping 400 - a big ask for such a breed. Constant landing on slightly turned out feet stresses ligaments and joints. Their stifle construction can make them prone to cruciate ligament rupture so tight turns and constant wear will challenge their structural integrity. Some of their fronts are narrower than the dog walk plank they have to negotiate. This is a job they are NOT built for.

I'd no more recommend a SBT as a likely agility prospect than I'd recommend taking up weight pulling with a Whippet.

Horses for courses.

Braccy breeds like Pugs struggle in agility in all but the mildest weather.

It's no insult to a breed to point out that some activities will be challenging for it. I've seen enough dogs and owners struggle in classes to steer folk away from some breeds and towards those better suited. And that's not an insult to the dogs - its an interest in their welfare.

Uninformed? How many dogs have you titled in agility Jerry Lee? How many handlers and dogs have you trained? The ONLY purebred SBT I know of that commenced training couldn't get across the dog walk. Too narrow for it. Of course that was before you could just do jumping.

I appreciate that people are passionate advocates for their breed of choice but no one should be blind to the limitations that certain structures have. The dogs can suffer as a result.

Absolute & utter rubbish.

[Salukifan]

Absolute & utter rubbish.

Your opinion. Based on what I don't know since you didn't say. Do you have any agility experience with SBTs?

What is it about their structure that, in your opinion, makes them ideal for the sport?

Edited December 18, 2012 by Haredown Whippets

[aussielover]

Well i think the issue is whether she wants a potential world champion, in which case get a border collie

Or whether she just wants a dog that can do agility and go through the levels with her- which is most healthy dogs of many breeds.

[Salukifan]

Well i think the issue is whether she wants a potential world champion, in which case get a border collie

Or whether she just wants a dog that can do agility and go through the levels with her- which is most healthy dogs of many breeds.

.

I have seen enough young handlers in tears of frustration or that simply fade away to recommend any dog that is going to impede, rather than encourage, an interest in agility.

I'm sure most agility folk have seen the same. It's not fun at all with a dog that's simply not "into" it.

I've had to retire a dog due to soundness issues. Not a fate I'd wish on anyone, let alone an 11 year old.

[jerry lee]

Well i think the issue is whether she wants a potential world champion, in which case get a border collie

Or whether she just wants a dog that can do agility and go through the levels with her- which is most healthy dogs of many breeds.

.

I have seen enough young handlers in tears of frustration or that simply fade away to recommend any dog that is going to impede, rather than encourage, an interest in agility.

I'm sure most agility folk have seen the same. It's not fun at all with a dog that's simply not "into" it.

I've had to retire a dog due to soundness issues. Not a fate I'd wish on anyone, let alone an 11 year old.

the O.P. asked for opinions re a suitable breed for an eleven year old to train for agility that could ''survive'' living with two robust dobes.

My advice is a staffy.

Your contribution was to denigrate a breed you obviously have no knowledge of or affection for.

A question

maybe two.

how much does a coursing fit whippet weigh?

Similarily, a beagle?

According to your rational they would only weigh a third the weight of a agility fit staffy.

Which would make them around the 6kg mark.

Ridiculous.

Like your uninformed anti staffy posts.

Btw....the staffy standard was written on the ideal model for their pit fighting ancestors.

For them, agility, & a couple of frisky dobes is a doddle.

Edited December 18, 2012 by jerry lee

[prodigybxr]

Uh, they are not built for the job, physically or temprament wise!

As HW said, even a we'll bred pug would struggle in the breathing department during an agility run.

Plus have you ever tried to get a pug to go in a tunnel or over a jump when it didn't want to? They are the most stubborn creatures, and for no reason will often decide to forget what that piece of equipment is for.

Trust me, pugs are not built for agilty!

Sorry, however, this is a bit of a generalisation.

Mine's nothing super-human in the Pug department, but can do all of the above plus Obedience, Rally and gain an 20km Endurance Title..

It's just that they're generally not owned by dog sport folk :)

[jerry lee]

Uh, they are not built for the job, physically or temprament wise!

As HW said, even a we'll bred pug would struggle in the breathing department during an agility run.

Plus have you ever tried to get a pug to go in a tunnel or over a jump when it didn't want to? They are the most stubborn creatures, and for no reason will often decide to forget what that piece of equipment is for.

Trust me, pugs are not built for agilty!

Sorry, however, this is a bit of a generalisation.

Mine's nothing super-human in the Pug department, but can do all of the above plus Obedience, Rally and gain an 20km Endurance Title..

It's just that they're generally not owned by dog sport folk :)

Don't sweat it.

The put downs are from those with little or no actual experience of the breeds they are putting down.

[minimax]

Uh, they are not built for the job, physically or temprament wise!

As HW said, even a we'll bred pug would struggle in the breathing department during an agility run.

Plus have you ever tried to get a pug to go in a tunnel or over a jump when it didn't want to? They are the most stubborn creatures, and for no reason will often decide to forget what that piece of equipment is for.

Trust me, pugs are not built for agilty!

Sorry, however, this is a bit of a generalisation.

Mine's nothing super-human in the Pug department, but can do all of the above plus Obedience, Rally and gain an 20km Endurance Title..

It's just that they're generally not owned by dog sport folk :)

Yes, of course it's a generalisation, we are talking about an entire breed of dog LOL

[Salukifan]

the O.P. asked for opinions re a suitable breed for an eleven year old to train for agility that could ''survive'' living with two robust dobes.

My advice is a staffy.

Your contribution was to denigrate a breed you obviously have no knowledge of or affection for.

A question

maybe two.

how much does a coursing fit whippet weigh?

Similarily, a beagle?

According to your rational they would only weigh a third the weight of a agility fit staffy.

Which would make them around the 6kg mark.

Ridiculous.

Like your uninformed anti staffy posts.

Btw....the staffy standard was written on the ideal model for their pit fighting ancestors.

Agility for them is a doddle.

I didn't denigrate anything. And if you think I"m "anti-staffy" you are sadly mistaken. I wouldn't own a Stafford but there's one in particular I'm very fond of.

I have frequently recommended Staffords on this forum as great kids dogs. But for agility? Sorry but no

For your information, I did agility with poodles weighing 4.5 and 6kg. The Miniatures were the same height as my friends show SBT who weighed 18kg. The SBT standard is what responsible breeders breed to - it is not a historic document.

Whippets are taller than Staffords by the way. In case it's escaped your notice, I didn't recommend THEM as agility prospects either, even though a handful have done well. It's not a simple task training a Whippet for that sport regardless of how athletically suited they might be. And I have quite a bit of affection for Whippets. :)

Edited December 18, 2012 by Haredown Whippets

[Kavik]

jerry lee

You seem to be taking this a bit personally.

In suggest breed threads people are looking for the most suitable breed for their situation. This means a lot of breeds are not going to be suitable for some reason. This is not putting down the breeds that aren't suitable.

[Simply Grand]

jerry lee, what height do SBTs normally run at in agility in your experience?

[huski]

I find a common theme in these threads is that a lot of people want to recommend their breed of choice often regardless of whether it would actually be suitable. We all love our chosen breeds but the reality is that no breed is suitable for everyone. I think Malinois are the best dogs in the whole wide world, but a lot of people would be miserable living with one. I also love hounds and spitz breeds and again they aren't for everyone. As much as we love and are passionate about our chosen breeds, sometimes a bit of objectivity is needed :)

[Simply Grand]

I think you are right huski, although like you I wouldn't recommend my breeds for many situations (although as I said possibly a carefully selected Aussie Shepherd in this case... maybe).