Lablover Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 This puppy has a similar pedigree to a litter I am breeding (this is not an advertisment). 14 weeks old. I have shown a few people the video...and have received responses YES I will have a puppy like that one (desire, focus and other traits)............to, how dangerous running such a youngster on long distances. What do you all think? Tell me what you see. Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Hey LL Nice drivey pup! I would say not a problem if done for video purposes only. Done repeatedly every day I'd say over the top mentally and physically. Just because a pup WILL do something doesn't meant they should. Plenty of other stuff to do with a youngster. But context is everything! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 I don't don't anything about Labs or retrieving, but looks like a pretty awesome pup to me! Plenty of sheepdogs are put out in the paddock at this age to have a look at sheep, lots of running, twisting & turning. Doesn't seem to do them any harm, but they certainly don't do it every day until they are older. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J... Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Awesome drive on such a young puppy but I see a rapidly tiring puppy at the 2 minute mark. To continue asking such a young dog to keep working well past that point is wrong in my books. Just because a pup WILL do something doesn't meant they should. Totally agree with this. There comes a point where you need to protect them from themselves, not ask them for more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted December 14, 2012 Author Share Posted December 14, 2012 Thankyou for the replies so far. I would not consider under 4 minutes galloping excessive physically. Vickie, I am with you, on the twisting and turning concerns. I failed to see any real stress mentally. I did notice the puppy "loose" movement, as expected for age. I greatly appreciate your thoughts. Discussion is good!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackJaq Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 (edited) I think the retrieve was way too far since the puppy ended up dropping all the dummies instead of delivering them to the handler. This seems to be encouraging a sloppy retrieve from a young age to me personally, a habit that might be hard to break later, but I am myself at the very beginning of teaching dummy work, so I am anything but an expert. The pup itself seems to have what it takes to make a nice gun dog (or trial dog? if trained more carefully) but I do not see the point in doing this exercise if all the retrieves are going to be put down before reaching the handler. Sometime more is less and a shorter, clean retrieve might serve better to train the puppy, but that is just my opinion :) Edited December 14, 2012 by BlackJaq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 There was no way my puppy was that focussed on anything but chewing my toes at that age. It looks impressive to me - but I'd be impressed with a send out and retrieve at about 1/4 the distance and feel more comfortable about it. And with a longer play break between. But that's more a quibble about the training method than the dog conformation. The video is too blurry and poor quality for me to make any guesses about conformation other than seeing the puppy do all that without keeling over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Personally I don't see a problem with it. As Lablover said, it was only for under 4 minutes. Sometimes I think that lab breeders in particular are very precious about how much exercise their puppies can tolerate with some advising extreme exercise restriction which can be detrimental in the long term. Often these dogs end up overweight and hyperactive and end up doing more damage to their joints due to their weight and the fact they are always jumping around like crazy things because they don't get enough exercise. I've met some clients at work who still lift their 2 year old 30-40kg "puppies" in and out of the car and carry them up and down stairs on advice from the breeder! In some ways its actually a pleasant surprise to see that some lab breeders are obviously reasonable and sensible about letting pups exercise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasha Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 I think the puppy seemed pretty focussed on the job. It brought the bumper back, didn't obsess over it once returned and then refocussed back to the next retrieve. I think I would be happy with that kind of drive and focus in a young dog. And also impressed that it takes its job seriously. Thats a bonus. Pup will obviously get very well developed muscles from exercising and I PERSONALLY think that for a dog that will have a job, it is important to start getting it fit for the job as it grows. Nothing worse than nursing one for a year only to finally let is do something to find its not going to be suitable. I don't think it was too much for that pup, it still headed out very keen, of course it got a bit puffed coming back but it was uphill and it ran. It chose to run, a less drivey dog prob would have trotted back or came back without object. So well done puppy. I think pups need to be given the opportunity to express the instinct at an early age. And have a level a pup should be able to do something. Once you know you have the instinct, then you can pull back and focus on control, obedience life, before adding the stress of controlling the instinct and the dog. The correct delivery etc is training later on. No point having an awesome dummy delivery/handover, if it doesn't want to go get it. I don't do retrieving at all btw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 Labs are a working breed they should be out working. There is nothing wrong with that pup doing that my last couple of pups I got did the same thing, and earlier. From 5 weeks old they were chasing toys and rags around. Labradors are not couch ornaments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarieEvans Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Awesome drive on such a young puppy but I see a rapidly tiring puppy at the 2 minute mark. To continue asking such a young dog to keep working well past that point is wrong in my books. Yeah, I saw that too. Poor pup. Maybe a little more rest next time. Although he's such a driven dog, he shouldn't be pushed way beyond his capacity. If he seems tired, even if he's as active as before, let him rest. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Lovely drive! I want me one of those please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted December 27, 2012 Author Share Posted December 27, 2012 Dasha, For someone who does not "do" retrieving, you sure know dogs. RubyStar one of the proposed pups has been ordered by a Western Australian. I think it is important to remember the field labrador seen in the youtube is field bred, has high drive and been bred/selected, for working traits. No show in pedigree since the 1950s. Currently taking care of 7 month of my breeding......gosh what desire... great fun to train. Intelligent ++++. One days training (she knew the commands but chose/learnt to ignore), and she is much more behaved and is finally sleeping. Thanks everyone for your opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasha Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 Thanks Lablover. What that puppy was asked to do was no different to what I would do with sheep dog pups at 8-10 weeks of age. Put them in a pen yard with 5 or so quiet dog broke sheep and see what their natural instincts are.They only need a few mins to see if the instinct is there yet. So you see the lightbulb switch on, pup goes into automatic pilot, collecting, balancing sheep to you, watching their heads and responding to the sheep movements THEN once you have seen that, you spend the next 10 mins trying to catch them cause they keep balancing opposite you!! Then without correcting them or interfering with their drive and instinct, you finally catch them, take them away and then you don't need to put them back on sheep for a few months later. In that time, you work on 100% recalls, (under any circumstance) and general manners and obedience. Once you know you have the right instincts, you know they are worth putting in all the other work. If they don't show it at an early age, you wait a month and try again. But you don't want them to get a bad experience at the tender fear ages or you ruin it for life. So once the instinct is there, you keep them safe until they are big enough and fast enough to work them properly or get of the way if they need to! I also just love watching working bred dogs do what they were designed for whether it is a sheep dog, retrieving dog, or any dog that has to perform a job. As long as they do it with enthusiasm its all good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mixeduppup Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 Thanks Lablover. What that puppy was asked to do was no different to what I would do with sheep dog pups at 8-10 weeks of age. Put them in a pen yard with 5 or so quiet dog broke sheep and see what their natural instincts are.They only need a few mins to see if the instinct is there yet. So you see the lightbulb switch on, pup goes into automatic pilot, collecting, balancing sheep to you, watching their heads and responding to the sheep movements THEN once you have seen that, you spend the next 10 mins trying to catch them cause they keep balancing opposite you!! Then without correcting them or interfering with their drive and instinct, you finally catch them, take them away and then you don't need to put them back on sheep for a few months later. In that time, you work on 100% recalls, (under any circumstance) and general manners and obedience. Once you know you have the right instincts, you know they are worth putting in all the other work. If they don't show it at an early age, you wait a month and try again. But you don't want them to get a bad experience at the tender fear ages or you ruin it for life. So once the instinct is there, you keep them safe until they are big enough and fast enough to work them properly or get of the way if they need to! I also just love watching working bred dogs do what they were designed for whether it is a sheep dog, retrieving dog, or any dog that has to perform a job. As long as they do it with enthusiasm its all good. So true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 (edited) I do remember watching a sheep dog demonstration once where the guy put a young pup into the pen with some quiet sheep to gauge his instinct. The little dog was amazing so switched on, so drivey. His comment was great he is going to be a fantastic sheep dog. Now to try and catch the little blighter!!! It was so funny, it took him a good 10 minutes to catch the pup and everytime he got too close you could see the pup give him a quick glance like, get outta the way will ya, or geez he's moved a fair way, gotta get these sheep in the right place again - zoom. He did get a big cheer and a round of applause when he did catch the little fella. I think the pup looks great, yes he is young and yes you wouldn't want to do it every day but the way I look at it is, the Lab is a working dog they should be a sound breed that doesn't have to be wrapped in cotton wool just to get them through to adulthood. A fit working Lab is a sight to behold Edited December 27, 2012 by OSoSwift Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Looks like a nice little pup with good drive. I think the pup did obviously tire and I personaly would have wound up before that happened. I'm not a Gun Dog person so it's not really appropriate for me to comment on their training and methods etc. I don't think pups should be overly restricted. Like Labs, some Great Dane Breeders get excessive about exercise restrictions that aren't positive for the future of the dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted January 1, 2013 Author Share Posted January 1, 2013 ososwift, got ya!! Instinct is a marvellous thing....the breeders of yesterday worked hard and bred for working traits. Of course work to the dogs is rewarding. One would only have to gauge (the pup on youtube) in the next TRAINING session. I have capitalised training, as I do not call puppy conditioning "training". My seven month old has left the building, so to speak. 24 hours in its new home and the trainer is raving about her. I thought this experienced winning trainer would like this one. The police have six of her siblings. Very nice litter, showing its stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted January 1, 2013 Author Share Posted January 1, 2013 sas, so true. All my dogs and those in co homes are worked HARD!! Hips and elbows results/scores are noteworthy - noteworthy as being good!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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