tandn Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Hey everyone, Just wanting to get my facts straight before I leash out, I know this person who is planning on breeding (byb) Staffords cos they will make him a fortune ???? he has become a 'registered breeder' but can you all give me some info on a few things, What's the minimum age to breed a bitch an all the legalities on getting the puppies on papers. Do u breed parents of the same size roughly? What are your rates on c-sections? And just any info I could use would be helpful not necceserrily to use it all at once but when I comes up I have an answer straight away, and I know I won't stop him from doing it I'd just like to be negative towards it an be there to say I TOLD YOU SO!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tandn Posted December 8, 2012 Author Share Posted December 8, 2012 We're in nsw aswell if that changes anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Her Majesty Dogmad Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 You can tell him that the NSW pounds/shelters are full of Staffies and Staffy crosses, adults and puppies alike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffyluv Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 You could show him all the badly bred staffys and crosses in pounds.. Get him to read the rescue section (urgent section) and let him see how many are put down each week.. Hopefully he loves his dogs and is not just looking at them like they will make him money.. To be honest a lot of BYBs are probably not going to care or spend the money on vet care for the bitch or the pups.. His girl will probably just pump out a couple of litters, will be sold off to whoever and he will make money, cause none will be vaccinated or microchipped.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyosha Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 (edited) If the dog and bitch are registered and good examples of their breed they should be a similar size, and certainly a suitable size to breed. If not, there is a problem. And an oversize male over a smaller bitch, especially in a breed that has large shoulders and heads anyway, could well be c-section territory. An emergency c-section should range from about $1500 to $2000 I think. edit to add - from the ANKC standard http://www.ankc.org.au/Breed_Details.aspx?bid=71: Weight: Dogs 13-17 kg (28-38 lbs) at withers Bitches 11-15.4 kg (24-34 lbs) at withers Desirable Height: 36-41 cms (14-16 ins) (these heights being related to the weights) Edited December 8, 2012 by Alyosha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra777 Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 (edited) Hey everyone, Just wanting to get my facts straight before I leash out, I know this person who is planning on breeding (byb) Staffords cos they will make him a fortune ???? he has become a 'registered breeder' but can you all give me some info on a few things, What's the minimum age to breed a bitch an all the legalities on getting the puppies on papers. Do u breed parents of the same size roughly? What are your rates on c-sections? And just any info I could use would be helpful not necceserrily to use it all at once but when I comes up I have an answer straight away, and I know I won't stop him from doing it I'd just like to be negative towards it an be there to say I TOLD YOU SO!!! 18 months for a Stafford bitch If they are purebred Staffords the dog and bitch should be roughly the same size - there's not a lot of lee-way in the standard anyway. Last caesar I had to have done was $1100. Few would get it that cheap at 6pm on a Sunday - looking more at 2k + at an emergency afterhours clinic. Dog & bitch must have their DNA status known for L2 & HC - either tested themselves or with papers proving they are clear by parentage OR if one is a carrier, the other must be clear & all pups DNA tested to identify the carriers. Stafford puppies are very hard to sell at the moment even to total idiots! Except if they're rare blue english staffys of course - so rare 1/2 the Staffords in Australia are blue Even for them, prices are dropping like a stone Edited December 8, 2012 by Sandra777 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffyluv Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 I saw an ad today for purebred staffys... 6 males and 4 female puppies. The father is a purebred American Staffy and the mother is a purebred English Staffy. Both parents are purebred, so it seems the pups must be to.. OMFG!!! Are people really that stupid??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WExtremeG Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 I saw an ad today for purebred staffys... 6 males and 4 female puppies. The father is a purebred American Staffy and the mother is a purebred English Staffy. Both parents are purebred, so it seems the pups must be to.. OMFG!!! Are people really that stupid??? Yes. Yes they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakway Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 I saw an ad today for purebred staffys... 6 males and 4 female puppies. The father is a purebred American Staffy and the mother is a purebred English Staffy. Both parents are purebred, so it seems the pups must be to.. OMFG!!! Are people really that stupid??? Unfortunately, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenGirl85 Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 I saw an ad today for purebred staffys... 6 males and 4 female puppies. The father is a purebred American Staffy and the mother is a purebred English Staffy. Both parents are purebred, so it seems the pups must be to.. OMFG!!! Are people really that stupid??? Yes. Yes they are. You've heard of purebred Maltese shit zoos yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 Dropped by the vet clinic our rescue uses on my way home this arvo... and they were prepping for a Caesar on a Staffy bitch... and it wasn't a rescue dog getting rescue rates... gonna cost the owner a pretty penny... Really though, unless they are doing the right thing and breeding to further the Stafford breed itself, we actually have way too many Staffy's out there IMHO. If breeding is done right, then you might get lucky to break even on a litter of 8 or more after all the expenses to get them to 8 weeks of age and adoptable. T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jade~Harley~Bella Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 I saw an ad today for purebred staffys... 6 males and 4 female puppies. The father is a purebred American Staffy and the mother is a purebred English Staffy. Both parents are purebred, so it seems the pups must be to.. OMFG!!! Are people really that stupid??? Lol maybe they don't know the difference, the AmStaffy... Just a long leg version of the stafford right ;) lol I know one person that posted on another forum, she decided to breed her dog a rescue wolfhound cross (why the pound sold an entire bitch, I don't know). She had so many issues it was not funny, and they all conveniently happened on the weekend or public holidays. In the end it cost her $5,000.00 in vet fees alone which took all of their savings and then still put them into debt. They lost a couple of pups and the bitch had so many health issues which required surgery etc and they nearly lost her as well. The guy who put his dog over theirs didn't contribute a cent but still expected the pick of the litter. Of course, if this person has it in their head that they want to breed because it's going to make them a fortune, I doubt anything you say or do will change their mind. Just have to hope nothing goes wrong for the sake of the dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espinay2 Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 You may want to let him know that in NSW he is required to abide by the Animal Welfare Code of Practice for Breeding Dogs and Cats which is available on the DPI website. It applies to ALL breeders. You could always print a copy off for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 I had someone who called the MDBA for advice on breeding last Thursday - she had a blue Am Staff. I didn't try to talk her out of it and I didn't exaggerate the potential risks I told the truth ,the whole truth and nothing but the truth .I asked her questions about the dog and spoke with her without making any judgments on whether she should or should not breed the dog .I spoke with her about the laws and codes for breeding dogs in her state ,what information she needed about her bitch's parents and how she could be liable if something went wrong with her puppies .I asked her to determine what it was that she wanted to breed her bitch for - told her there was no right or wrong answer and appeared not to care whether she chose to breed or not but pointed out what she needed to do to ensure she didnt put her dog, her self or the puppies at risk etc. I then advised her where to go to learn a bit more and to be prepared for attacks from people who felt she was doing the wrong thing if she chose to go ahead. I also advised her on what she could do if she really still wanted to breed puppies an ensure she had all of the bases covered by purchasing a dog with the right papers and support. I wished her luck and told her if she needed any more advice she could email me. She rang back the next morning after she had booked her bitch in for desexing to say thank you and asked if it was O.K. if she came back in a few months to get some help in choosing a good dog to breed with and get it right. What makes people who have absolute passion for a breed who have been breeding dogs for decades stop breeding dogs? What makes me constantly feel stressed because I own fertile dogs even when I know Im doing it all right and ask if its all worth it? There in lies the answer . Tell them about the laws, development applications for the right to breed a puppy on your premises, the lost rights to privacy, the fear of litigation, the fear of no longer being able to enjoy simply living with their dog ,the over regulation, the politics and social media attacks from animal rights loonies and people who have no clue about breeding dogs. We are dropping like flies and there is good reason for that because few people in our society are treated as badly and in some circles breeding a puppy is viewed way up there with pedophilia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 Hey everyone, Just wanting to get my facts straight before I leash out, I know this person who is planning on breeding (byb) Staffords cos they will make him a fortune ???? he has become a 'registered breeder' but can you all give me some info on a few things, What's the minimum age to breed a bitch an all the legalities on getting the puppies on papers. Do u breed parents of the same size roughly? What are your rates on c-sections? And just any info I could use would be helpful not necceserrily to use it all at once but when I comes up I have an answer straight away, and I know I won't stop him from doing it I'd just like to be negative towards it an be there to say I TOLD YOU SO!!! Well the horse may have already bolted on this one but..... Are you saying he's got himself an ANKC breeder prefix? That's what I call "registered". If it is, then he's going to be subject to a whole raft of requirements including age of breeding bitches and how often he can breed them. It worries me a little that every time someone wants to breed someone else considers it their mission in life to stop it. If he's ANKC registered, then he'll find out soon enough he won't make a fortune. And if it isn't. Save your breath. It won't make an ounce of difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerry lee Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Most puppy farmers are unscrupulous persons who deliberately breed dogs with the expectation of returning a profit. Most ANKC registered breeders don't. If you believe that you believe in Santa Claus. The differece being, most ANKC registered breeders do respect their breed & value their reputations & do breed quality puppies. Viva le difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espinay2 Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 I had someone who called the MDBA for advice on breeding last Thursday - she had a blue Am Staff. I didn't try to talk her out of it and I didn't exaggerate the potential risks I told the truth ,the whole truth and nothing but the truth .I asked her questions about the dog and spoke with her without making any judgments on whether she should or should not breed the dog .I spoke with her about the laws and codes for breeding dogs in her state ,what information she needed about her bitch's parents and how she could be liable if something went wrong with her puppies .I asked her to determine what it was that she wanted to breed her bitch for - told her there was no right or wrong answer and appeared not to care whether she chose to breed or not but pointed out what she needed to do to ensure she didnt put her dog, her self or the puppies at risk etc. I then advised her where to go to learn a bit more and to be prepared for attacks from people who felt she was doing the wrong thing if she chose to go ahead. I also advised her on what she could do if she really still wanted to breed puppies an ensure she had all of the bases covered by purchasing a dog with the right papers and support. I wished her luck and told her if she needed any more advice she could email me. She rang back the next morning after she had booked her bitch in for desexing to say thank you and asked if it was O.K. if she came back in a few months to get some help in choosing a good dog to breed with and get it right. What makes people who have absolute passion for a breed who have been breeding dogs for decades stop breeding dogs? What makes me constantly feel stressed because I own fertile dogs even when I know Im doing it all right and ask if its all worth it? There in lies the answer . Tell them about the laws, development applications for the right to breed a puppy on your premises, the lost rights to privacy, the fear of litigation, the fear of no longer being able to enjoy simply living with their dog ,the over regulation, the politics and social media attacks from animal rights loonies and people who have no clue about breeding dogs. We are dropping like flies and there is good reason for that because few people in our society are treated as badly and in some circles breeding a puppy is viewed way up there with pedophilia. Steve I love this approach and think it is a great one. I had someone (a younger person) call me the other day looking for a puppy and wanting to breed. A lot of what they said sounded warning sirens and In the past I may have kept it short and sweet. But then I thought 'where is our future?' and decided to talk. To explain a bit about what was involved and that while I may not end up having a puppy for them I would be happy to help them learn. What they do with the offer is up to them and you can't force someone to do something they are not willing to do, but at least I have offered a different path rather than closing and locking the gate. By providing non judgmental information (there is a difference between explaining why a particular path may have more positives and being judgmental) they then have knowledge on which to base decisions and can choose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Most puppy farmers are unscrupulous persons who deliberately breed dogs with the expectation of returning a profit. Most ANKC registered breeders don't. If you believe that you believe in Santa Claus. The differece being, most ANKC registered breeders do respect their breed & value their reputations & do breed quality puppies. Viva le difference. Yep but sometimes respecting the breed isn't all its cracked up to be either and covers a multitude of sins .Id like to think that at the end of the day anyone who breeds dogs has a base desire to do whats best for the dogs and its better for the dogs if part of it all is that they are predictable and that is the ONLY thing that a registered purebred breeder can ever automatically be assumed to be doing over any other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airedaler Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 I had someone who called the MDBA for advice on breeding last Thursday - she had a blue Am Staff. I didn't try to talk her out of it and I didn't exaggerate the potential risks I told the truth ,the whole truth and nothing but the truth .I asked her questions about the dog and spoke with her without making any judgments on whether she should or should not breed the dog .I spoke with her about the laws and codes for breeding dogs in her state ,what information she needed about her bitch's parents and how she could be liable if something went wrong with her puppies .I asked her to determine what it was that she wanted to breed her bitch for - told her there was no right or wrong answer and appeared not to care whether she chose to breed or not but pointed out what she needed to do to ensure she didnt put her dog, her self or the puppies at risk etc. I then advised her where to go to learn a bit more and to be prepared for attacks from people who felt she was doing the wrong thing if she chose to go ahead. I also advised her on what she could do if she really still wanted to breed puppies an ensure she had all of the bases covered by purchasing a dog with the right papers and support. I wished her luck and told her if she needed any more advice she could email me. She rang back the next morning after she had booked her bitch in for desexing to say thank you and asked if it was O.K. if she came back in a few months to get some help in choosing a good dog to breed with and get it right. What makes people who have absolute passion for a breed who have been breeding dogs for decades stop breeding dogs? What makes me constantly feel stressed because I own fertile dogs even when I know Im doing it all right and ask if its all worth it? There in lies the answer . Tell them about the laws, development applications for the right to breed a puppy on your premises, the lost rights to privacy, the fear of litigation, the fear of no longer being able to enjoy simply living with their dog ,the over regulation, the politics and social media attacks from animal rights loonies and people who have no clue about breeding dogs. We are dropping like flies and there is good reason for that because few people in our society are treated as badly and in some circles breeding a puppy is viewed way up there with pedophilia. Steve I love this approach and think it is a great one. I had someone (a younger person) call me the other day looking for a puppy and wanting to breed. A lot of what they said sounded warning sirens and In the past I may have kept it short and sweet. But then I thought 'where is our future?' and decided to talk. To explain a bit about what was involved and that while I may not end up having a puppy for them I would be happy to help them learn. What they do with the offer is up to them and you can't force someone to do something they are not willing to do, but at least I have offered a different path rather than closing and locking the gate. By providing non judgmental information (there is a difference between explaining why a particular path may have more positives and being judgmental) they then have knowledge on which to base decisions and can choose. I think you have the best approach. You are going to kill more flies with honey than with vinegar. Rather than put people's back up by telling them what they should or should not do this approach is going to, in many cases, have the same result but without giving the impression that "we" are superior - or at least some of us believe we are! At the end of the day who is to say the person the OP is about would not be just as particular as most ANKC breeders are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerry lee Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Most puppy farmers are unscrupulous persons who deliberately breed dogs with the expectation of returning a profit. Most ANKC registered breeders don't. If you believe that you believe in Santa Claus. The differece being, most ANKC registered breeders do respect their breed & value their reputations & do breed quality puppies. Viva le difference. Yep but sometimes respecting the breed isn't all its cracked up to be either and covers a multitude of sins .Id like to think that at the end of the day anyone who breeds dogs has a base desire to do whats best for the dogs and its better for the dogs if part of it all is that they are predictable and that is the ONLY thing that a registered purebred breeder can ever automatically be assumed to be doing over any other. I not real sure what you are getting at? Are you saying temperament is the only thing that matters? Or at the very least, it's the most important? Surely not? Respecting the standard is respecting the breed. Without the standard there is no breed. Temperament is just one small part of the whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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