Greytmate Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 A old dog is not going to change through socialization, but may benefit from desensitization. In the absence of the guidance from a good trainer or behaviorist, you possibly could help this lady if you understand the concept of gradual desensitization and keeping her dog below its threshold, and you have the ability to take charge of the situation. Otherwise I would be very wary of putting your own dog in that situation. Its a shame that this anti social dog was adopted to somebody that really wants a friendly dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Clover Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greylvr Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I wouldnt but that said I had a dog when I was doing rescue that was rock solid. So I would introduce him to the new dogs that came in. They could try to pick a fight he would just stand there looking at them, he let puppies chew on him but I think those dogs are rare and no need to expose your dog to one if your not comfortable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I wouldnt but that said I had a dog when I was doing rescue that was rock solid. So I would introduce him to the new dogs that came in. They could try to pick a fight he would just stand there looking at them, he let puppies chew on him but I think those dogs are rare and no need to expose your dog to one if your not comfortable. Some dogs don't just "try". Some dogs cut right to the chase and "do". You really don't want a rock solid dog to get wounded trying to help another dog. And it happens unless people know exactly what they are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greylvr Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I wouldnt but that said I had a dog when I was doing rescue that was rock solid. So I would introduce him to the new dogs that came in. They could try to pick a fight he would just stand there looking at them, he let puppies chew on him but I think those dogs are rare and no need to expose your dog to one if your not comfortable. Some dogs don't just "try". Some dogs cut right to the chase and "do". You really don't want a rock solid dog to get wounded trying to help another dog. And it happens unless people know exactly what they are doing. Yes I wasnt suggesting she do it or anyone does it was just pointing out that I wouldnt do it but that I had a dog that was a rock solid dog that helped me with some dogs that were trouble dogs. Thats all If you know about dog body language it helps to prevent a lot of problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disintegratus Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 (edited) From both sides (owner of a fear aggressive dog, and owner of friendly dogs), this sounds like a bad idea. Pretty much for the same reasons everyone else has (without the guidance of professionals, you risk the encounter being a bad experience for all involved which only makes things worse for everyone.) That said, if you are confident in your dogs personality etc, if you want to help her desensitize her dog, I'd go for it (while far enough away that your dog is still comfortable of course). I myself have "used" both dogs and people (both with their permission and without, but I don't think you should have to ask permission if their dog is on the other side of a football field and totally absorbed with being a normal dog; and that guy who just stood there on his front nature strip for about 15 minutes (without me asking him to) while I got Thundercleese under threshold and practiced "not trying to kill things" with him was a freaking angel!!!) ETA: I never put other people or animals into a situation where they were in any danger or uncomfortable, most of the time the didn't even know they were being used as a training tool at all! Edited December 7, 2012 by disintegratus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I've been thinking about this question for a day or so and the answer for me would be a yes, but in saying that it would be my terms and my rules. There would be no "meeting" as such and certainly no "socialising". I've had quite a few "indifferent" dogs over the years and I would be more than happy to for example, go for a walk with someone who is having issues with their dog. The dogs would be kept well apart to begin. I'd be confident and comfortable to go for a walk and allow the dogs to be near one another, but I would probably not go so far as an actual meeting. Many fearfull or excited dogs can benefit from being around other dogs that are calm and indifferent, however average Joe practicing "Cesar Milan" techniques has the potential for disaster in most circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckandsteve Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 I have a DA dog, its fear based and i dont think he can improve further without meet and greets. So i am going to take him to a trainer so practice. I let my other dogs, meet DA dogs when i am happy with the situation. I also clear out of the dog park with my little yapper so someone can let their husky play with my Staffy because the Husky doesnt like little dogs. But it is easier to be accomodating when u see both sides though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remarkabull Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 What sort of pleasure does the owner of a fearful or aggressive dog think the animal gets from "socialising" This exactly! I have a DA dog (fear based) and he gets no pleasure being too close to strange dogs. He loves to play with my other dogs and in no way is he missing out on anything because he can't socialise with random dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddy Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 So many "depends on" in these sorts of cases, the main one, in my opinion, being: how would it affect your dog? What breed is your dog? What is his/her nature? Can he/she be trusted not to retaliate when the other dog gets in his/her face? Etc etc. Some rescue people have what they call "bomb proof" dogs and will use them to help other dogs, but you really have to know your dog and be confident in your own ability to control the situation. If the lady is using that method on an already stressed and agitated dog, she is doing more harm than good. I do feel sorry for her and her dog, but she needs professional help to help the little dog. In my experience, Shih Tzus are generally pretty easy going dogs, but they can be the exact opposite of course. This. We have a bomb-proof foster boy at the moment and he's been incredibly valuable in working with the new foster with dog issues. What would normally take us months to resolve has taken a couple of weeks with virtually no setbacks. Having said that.. I don't think I'd be doing that for a stranger's dog as it just wouldn't be worth the risk to my own dogs. We do it with fosters because we need them behaviourally sound for adoption and it's done carefully to ensure the bomb-proof dog is never stressed or upset (as I'd hate for him to develop problems, he's an amazing boy). I'd also agree with perhaps suggesting names of suitable trainers/behaviourists to the owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 Only in controlled situations where I know the other person can control the dog and will follow set guidelines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyliedelonge Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 Like a lot of people are saying, it depends on so many things. I myself have a reactive dog, but I would never ask someone if he could meet their dog, it would stress him too much. It's all about response prevention. Today I took my dog to a training Christmas party at my work, and he was wearing a bright yellow vest saying "please give me space" one girl brought her dog over to mine (i had him at a nice comfortable distance for him and he was laying calmly) so close that he lost it and while he was barking and lunging at her dog and I'm trying to get him behind me she goes "does he want to meet my dog?" *pacepalm* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Labradork Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 No, I only want my dogs to have positive experiences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espinay2 Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 (edited) Socialization = no. Desensitization (which is not about the dogs actually meeting, but about teaching the dog not to react when it sees another dog) then maybe and only in a very controlled way. I have used my dogs for desensitization in the past, but would never put them at risk through direct interaction. I do agree with HW that in many cases trying to push dogs to 'socialise' is not in the interests of the dog. We have to remember too that meeting lots of strange dogs is 'unnatural' as dogs/ wolves will not naturally socialise outside of their immediate pack. Dogs don't need to meet lots of different dogs to be 'happy' and in fact in many cases it can just add stress to do so. Rather they should learn if possible not to react to the presence of another dog around them when out and about. Edited December 8, 2012 by espinay2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dee lee Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 Socialization = no. Desensitization (which is not about the dogs actually meeting, but about teaching the dog not to react when it sees another dog) then maybe and only in a very controlled way. I have used my dogs for desensitization in the past, but would never put them at risk through direct interaction.. Yes, this is exactly what I have done, both with my DA & bombproof dogs. Neither of them needed the extra socialization (too late for the DA one), but I do think desensitization is helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckandsteve Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 What sort of pleasure does the owner of a fearful or aggressive dog think the animal gets from "socialising" This exactly! I have a DA dog (fear based) and he gets no pleasure being too close to strange dogs. He loves to play with my other dogs and in no way is he missing out on anything because he can't socialise with random dogs. My dog isnt DA off lead, but i think teaching him to interact with other dogs is important as what if something goes wrong one day. He escapes the yard, i trip drop the lead?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 What sort of pleasure does the owner of a fearful or aggressive dog think the animal gets from "socialising" This exactly! I have a DA dog (fear based) and he gets no pleasure being too close to strange dogs. He loves to play with my other dogs and in no way is he missing out on anything because he can't socialise with random dogs. My dog isnt DA off lead, but i think teaching him to interact with other dogs is important as what if something goes wrong one day. He escapes the yard, i trip drop the lead?? If you have a DA dog you have to make sure these things don't happen. Most DA dogs can't be taught to interact in a friendly way, the training that is done to help the dog is about managing things so that interaction with other dogs is avoided and so that the DA dogs threshold is raised to cope with being able to be near other dogs. Actual interaction with other dogs isn't recommended for dogs that are DA. Too dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ann21 Posted December 9, 2012 Author Share Posted December 9, 2012 Thanks again everyone I have contacted Greta and she has given me a couple of recommendations for trainers in Singapore. I will pass these onto my neighbour the next time I see her and might also contact the trainers myself since I am still looking to continue with my dogs obedience training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remarkabull Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 What sort of pleasure does the owner of a fearful or aggressive dog think the animal gets from "socialising" This exactly! I have a DA dog (fear based) and he gets no pleasure being too close to strange dogs. He loves to play with my other dogs and in no way is he missing out on anything because he can't socialise with random dogs. My dog isnt DA off lead, but i think teaching him to interact with other dogs is important as what if something goes wrong one day. He escapes the yard, i trip drop the lead?? If you have a DA dog you have to make sure these things don't happen. Most DA dogs can't be taught to interact in a friendly way, the training that is done to help the dog is about managing things so that interaction with other dogs is avoided and so that the DA dogs threshold is raised to cope with being able to be near other dogs. Actual interaction with other dogs isn't recommended for dogs that are DA. Too dangerous. Yes ^^^ My dog does not lunge and bark at other dogs while we are out walking. If I dropped the lead he won't go anywhere and he has a great recall even if other dogs are in view. He avoids other dogs if possible but i have no doubt that if he felt overwhelmed or if a dog came too close he would 'have a go' at it. We don't go to dog parks and I ave reduced how often I walk him because so many people around her walk their dogs off lead and have zero control and I don't want to ever put him in a position where he feels he has no option but to bite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 ann21, I think you're really caring wanting to help this neighbour and her dog, good on you :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now