The Spotted Devil Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 AHHHHHHHHH. Sorry, just had to get that out. We have been making great progress sans Trazodone and are up to Task 11. But Task 11 involves doorbell ringing. Kill me now. Ok - can you break it down a bit? What is his response when you ring the door bell? And is he required to hold his sit? You can probably modify this a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Best Dogs! Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 (edited) Can you start out really far away from the bell so it sounds faint? Or muffle it in some way so it's really quiet then let it get slightly louder? Edited August 31, 2016 by Thistle the dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papillon Kisses Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 He's running around barking his head off and remaining keyed up for a while afterwards. He doesn't have to hold a sit as such, more just be relaxed. I ask him to sit on his mat but he can lay down if it wants, I don't mind. Main thing is to be calmly attentive and zen-like while I've gone out of view, rung the doorbell, waited x amount of time and returned. Ha! He has become better with the doorbell in other circumstances since starting medication. He was down to just running to the door and giving three alert barks! (Which I'm fine with.) But apparently we're back to flipping out. He was more reactive to other dogs today too. Side note: trying another med but very early days, he also recently hurt his neck, both of which could contribute. Back to more CC/DS/teaching alternate behaviours I suppose, though I'm unsure how to mesh it with the protocol. Hopefully he'll learn faster than he has previously with other things. I spent some time today ringing it with him right near me/his mat and tossing him a rapid fire of high value treats while it played. Got him down to inhaling treats while still disconcerted but not running around in circles or barking. I guess I'll see tomorrow whether any of it has stuck. Excellent thought Thistle about muffling the sound. The issues with the doorbell are (a) the element of surprise and (b) how loud it is, so muffling will help with the latter. Increasing distance will require another person to help but I can start there. In some ways it seems so arbitrary because I don't mind him running to the door and doing a little alert bark so long as it's a short, gather-the-troops reaction. But this is over the top again. I guess I'm just having a little whinge because I'm so over CC/DS every damn thing and thought I, and he really, had caught a break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 (edited) You're doing great! I would record it on my phone and then play it with the volume down. I would use it as a CUE to do something ie go to crate. Then I would slowly increase the volume. Then I would get someone to help me ring the real bell whilst I focussed on the dog. In the meantime I would cover the button up so no one uses it and undoes your hard work. Edited August 31, 2016 by The Spotted Devil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papillon Kisses Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 (edited) You're doing great! I would record it on my phone and then play it with the volume down. I would use it as a CUE to do something ie go to crate. Then I would slowly increase the volume. Then I would get someone to help me ring the real bell whilst I focussed on the dog. In the meantime I would cover the button up so no one uses it and undoes your hard work. Oooh! That's a brilliant idea that it will make it much easier to do the rest. Thank you!! Editing to add that I'm excited about this challenge now as it seems a lot more doable. :D Edited September 1, 2016 by Papillon Kisses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 You're doing great! I would record it on my phone and then play it with the volume down. I would use it as a CUE to do something ie go to crate. Then I would slowly increase the volume. Then I would get someone to help me ring the real bell whilst I focussed on the dog. In the meantime I would cover the button up so no one uses it and undoes your hard work. Oooh! That's a brilliant idea that it will make it much easier to do the rest. Thank you!! Editing to add that I'm excited about this challenge now as it seems a lot more doable. :D Set no limits PK! Just break down the task...be a splitter not a lumper! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Best Dogs! Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 You can do it PK! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papillon Kisses Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 Thanks TSD & Thistle! We had a go at it today. :) First I had the recording at a volume just under threshold and we practiced going to his crate upon it sounding and receiving direction from me. He thought that was a fantastic game! I then turned it down further for the protocol. He was reactive with the protocol: not barking, just fussing and moving around, but the reactivity was more about the longer waits and changing task requirements than the doorbell ringing. Standard practice when going up a task. He's sound asleep now processing it all, lol. I should probably have left more of a gap between training sessions... that probably didn't help with the reactivity. I'm wondering if I should change it to go to your mat upon it ringing vs. go to your crate. I like the idea of him going to his crate but I think it may be confusing for him with the protocol being predominantly mat-based for now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Best Dogs! Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 But does he know the difference between protocol traininh and a handy command to go to crate, in order to be confused? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 (edited) Yes do it to the mat....and then you can gradually move the mat near to and then inside the crate! Try putting a timer on for ONE minute. Take a break. Evaluate. And then pick up where you left off. That's why I like training 3 dogs. Forces me to be super quick and efficient :laugh: Edited September 1, 2016 by The Spotted Devil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 Sounds like awesome work. Best thing I did was switch our door bell off. Needed to post-op and while one dog was recovering from ortho surgery and have never turned it back on since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papillon Kisses Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 Sounds like awesome work. Best thing I did was switch our door bell off. Needed to post-op and while one dog was recovering from ortho surgery and have never turned it back on since. You know I am tempted to keep it off. I can hear even quiet door knocking, and the loudness of the doorbell is kind of objectionable. I wish I could turn it down. In any case, I decided to remove the behaviour chain component in the interim and just focus on DS/CC, and he's now calmly sitting or laying down on his mat when the recording plays at its loudest. I did what you said TSD and split the doorbell work down into very short segments. The actual doorbell recording is 9 seconds, so just three of them a few times a day in addition to the protocol task. It will be a big jump to the actual doorbell though. We think Malcolm becomes more reactive when he's not feeling well from medication changes etc. Now that it's settling in his system he seems to be calming down and learning more again. I think I might bump him up to Task 12 tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Best Dogs! Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 What progress he is making! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papillon Kisses Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 What progress he is making! Thank you. :) He had quite a bad week anxiety-wise, so I'm pleased we were able to get anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 (edited) PK that's fabulous well done!!! So another suggestion for you - teach him a really simple behaviour such as a multiple nose to hand touch (shape it). Make this a highly rewarded trick and then it's a very helpful measure of how anxious he is. Really handy if the meds are causing fluctuations in coping OR if you go to a new environment OR something changes at home. If he's hesitant or can't nose touch you'll immediately know to start the RP back several levels at something easy and maybe reasses meds. I use this with my dogs all the time - because not only can it indicate a worried dog but it can tell me when they are OVER excited eg at a trial or when Ginny is confronted with somewhere she can run lol Edited September 9, 2016 by The Spotted Devil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papillon Kisses Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 Haha, I'm imagining a 'fist bump' but with the snoot! :D :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 Haha, I'm imagining a 'fist bump' but with the snoot! :D :laugh: :laugh: Actially it's the opposite! When they are super excited they just can't demonstrate enough impulse control for a decent nose touch. Or tug! I've had to move Ginny into the carpark so she can think straight when Mr TSD walks out with her retrieving dummies. But she's a bit bonkers lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papillon Kisses Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 OMG GUYS. WE ARE UP TO TASK 15! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papillon Kisses Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 We did it! We did it! We did it! Task 15 done and dusted today!!! Of course it doesn't end here as I think this will be a daily thing for us to do to help keep Malcolm's anxiety in check. It seems to have a meditative quality to it for him and we are going to do it in more scenarios. But I'm so freaking proud of my little boy and would like to give a big thanks to everyone who has helped especially The Spotted Devil. You are an awesome person! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest crazydoglady99 Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 Ooooo so happy to see this thread, as weare going to start on this too! Congrats PK & Malcolm!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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