New Rescue

[tdierikx]

Seriously - one doesn't HAVE to throw water at a whining dog if one has a different way of handling the undesirable behaviour. That looks like only a suggestion to me...

I think you are possibly wanting to help this one particular trainer that you keep mentioning move her dogs on, and want to create your rescue based on that premise - if so, why not just come straight out and say that's what you are aiming to do?

The reason that so many people are suggesting fostering for GAP or GSN is that these 2 groups have pretty darned great reputations for placing Greyhounds out into society extremely well. They have done the hard yards with the industry and with the public. They have very successful methods for helping ex-racing Greyhounds acclimatise to being family pets - and that's nothing to be sneezed at.

Reading some of your "history" (read HSUS references and mentioning Pit Bull rescue) suggests that you have spent some time in the USA - would that be a correct assumption? If so, have you considered that what may work in the US with regards to rescuing and rehoming of dogs, may not work as well here in Australia?

May I also ask what is so "inhumane" about using water as a deterrent to undesirable behaviour? And why that particular snippet of some suggestions for foster carers of one group has you deciding that they are going to enforce that sort of training method if you foster care for them?

Im not bagging you or your aspirations - I am just suggesting that fostering for an already estalished group BEFORE deciding to go off on your own may give you a much better insight into the plight of ex-racing Greyhounds in Australia...

T.

[Greytmate]

Sigh..... I am not interested in fostering. Why is this so hard so are you saying that all greyhound rescues should close down and only foster for these 2 groups? That no new greyhound rescue should be made all those interested in running a rescue should just foster for these two groups? Why dont all rescues just close down and foster for the RSPCA? Why is this such a big deal that I have no interest in fostering?

If you have no interest in fostering, how are you going to recruit any foster carers? Can you sell an idea that you have no interest in yourself?

Many of the newer rescue groups were started by gap carers who then went out and started new orgsnisations to fill a niche that they saw. But what niche in the adoption market are you aiming for?

Your own qualifications are not all that impressive compared to those who are leading the way in greyhound adoption.

Maybe time to lose the ego and spend some months (not days) learning about the current situation before entering the market yourself.

Some people love to foster and I dont need to sell anyone on an idea if they want to foster they will I wont twist people's arms to foster those type of foster homes usually dont work out.

Most Australians have no idea what foster care is until it is explained to them and they are sold on the benefits of doing it.

I have already said a bunch of time that we plan to help those dogs that would otherwise be put down because they cant wait for a spot in other rescues.

A few of us have explained why there is a logic problem with that. An series of individuals doing things on their own can not achieve as much as a team. The length of the wait for the dogs to get into the programs is determined by how many carers are available. So by fostering for them you reduce the wait and fewer dogs miss out. Both groups are very effective at what they do.

My qualifications may not be much compared to some rescues but I am sure its a lot more than what other rescues have started on.

How can you be sure of what you know nothing about?

This isnt a EGO thing not sure where you got that idea, this is a want to fill a need and be able to rehome dogs that need help in a fashion I prefer.

You are putting fulfilling your own needs over the needs of the dogs I think. I and others are asking you to spend a decent amount of time learning about what is needed for Australian dogs. To put aside ego to be able to take on suggestions from others and learn before you start up an organisation that will be spreading information to other people in the community.

You say that you won't be badmouthing other rescue groups but you have done it throughout this thread. And you don't have the information needed to provide the level of service that is expected from adopters. Not yet and not by a very long way.

So not sure what else you all want from me but this is going from a happy thread announcing my plans to a depressing thread that is nit picking and trying to convince someone to foster for a larger group not sure how it got twisted this way but it was.

Did you start the thread for advice or for the accolades? This is a rescue discussion forum and serious issues are discussed. If you want lollipops and rainbows you would announce it in general discussion where you will get more people knowing little about dogs or greyhounds who will be happy to hear your plans.

What we want from you is a little respect that we have made the effort to talk about the issues you will be facing, and for you to take the advice which is to learn from those who do it well before you open for business. Nobody has said you should never open a rescue. Quite a few have said that you don't seem to be aware of the problems you are very likely to face and so the method you prefer to operate may not work for you like you think it will.

I am thankful for all the supportive advice and such on this thread and through messages glad there are some people out there that can see a good thing when its there.

Where as you refuse to see any good in advice that is different from what you expected. You would get support if people believed you had the ability to run a greyhound program well. But I think that it is likely that your mistakes could negatively impact the reputation of greyhound rescue and that can put people off adopting. Nobody wants that to happen.

[aussielover]

I also think that it would perhaps be a good idea to foster first for one of the more established rescues, if not only to get contacts and see exactly where the need is...

I don't know much about GAP or GSN because greyhounds are not a suitable breed for me so I haven't one alot of research into them, however GAP in particular has a very good reputation nationwide and is seen to have done a lot for racing greyhounds in Australia.

I can understand your reasons for not wanting to be part of a larger org, but surely fostering 1 or 2 dogs for them initially wouldn't be too stressful for you? especially whilst you are organising the paperwork for your own group. It would be great to be able to have the support of people who have many years of experience in the industry and with the breed.

I'm not sure about GAP and GSN, but in many rescue groups in Australia the foster carer has a big say in who can adopt their foster dog.

If you were to run your own rescue group would you allow your foster carers a say in who gets to adopt the dog?

Whatever you decide to do, I think it is great that you are so passionate about saving greyhounds I wish you the best of luck in your endeavour to start a new rescue group.

[rebelsquest]

Im not bagging you or your aspirations - I am just suggesting that fostering for an already estalished group BEFORE deciding to go off on your own may give you a much better insight into the plight of ex-racing Greyhounds in Australia...

T.

Agree with the bolded. You seem inexperienced with greyhounds and how things work in Victoria (green collars, you talked about becoming an assessor etc). Why not foster for one organisation (GSN if you don't like GAP's policies) while you get the groundwork in place for your own rescue? I'm sure you would learn a lot, both about greyhounds, the regulations in Victoria, and where there may be a current gap that you could fill with your rescue.

[tdierikx]

I think the OP may have abandoned this thread... *sigh*

T.

[Greylvr]

I think you are possibly wanting to help this one particular trainer that you keep mentioning move her dogs on, and want to create your rescue based on that premise - if so, why not just come straight out and say that's what you are aiming to do?

May I also ask what is so "inhumane" about using water as a deterrent to undesirable behaviour? And why that particular snippet of some suggestions for foster carers of one group has you deciding that they are going to enforce that sort of training method if you foster care for them?

Im not bagging you or your aspirations - I am just suggesting that fostering for an already estalished group BEFORE deciding to go off on your own may give you a much better insight into the plight of ex-racing Greyhounds in Australia...

T.

No I am not just wanting to help this one trainer, I met them and they are good people and you have to start somewhere, I am sure she will know of other trainers that need help too. If I was doing that then I would have said that.

I dont think throwing water in the face of a dog for whining at a door is appropriate. My views and you dont have to agree.

[Greylvr]

I also think that it would perhaps be a good idea to foster first for one of the more established rescues, if not only to get contacts and see exactly where the need is...

I don't know much about GAP or GSN because greyhounds are not a suitable breed for me so I haven't one alot of research into them, however GAP in particular has a very good reputation nationwide and is seen to have done a lot for racing greyhounds in Australia.

I can understand your reasons for not wanting to be part of a larger org, but surely fostering 1 or 2 dogs for them initially wouldn't be too stressful for you? especially whilst you are organising the paperwork for your own group. It would be great to be able to have the support of people who have many years of experience in the industry and with the breed.

I'm not sure about GAP and GSN, but in many rescue groups in Australia the foster carer has a big say in who can adopt their foster dog.

If you were to run your own rescue group would you allow your foster carers a say in who gets to adopt the dog?

Whatever you decide to do, I think it is great that you are so passionate about saving greyhounds I wish you the best of luck in your endeavour to start a new rescue group.

Why not foster for one organisation (GSN if you don't like GAP's policies) while you get the groundwork in place for your own rescue? I'm sure you would learn a lot, both about greyhounds, the regulations in Victoria, and where there may be a current gap that you could fill with your rescue.

Yes the fosters have always had say in the placement of the dog. You make a good point about fostering while getting my paperwork together, Maybe I will find a group to foster for but it wont be GAP or GSN not after what I have seen of their supporters in this thread. Ill do some searching and see if I find a group looking for a foster talk to them and see how I feel. Thanks

Edited December 6, 2012 by Greylvr

[rebelsquest]

Oh for goodness sake. They are both large organisations with many supporters, there will always be differences of opinions. But to wash your hands and not have anything to do with them based on some of the advice offered to you in this thread is just silly IMO. You are stopping yourself learning a huge amount from some very experienced people, which will make it harder for you when you initially start your rescue. You should be picking the brains of many people in GAP and GSN, not writing them off because you didn't like what some of their supporters said ( which, again IMHO, wasn't that bad). You say you are in it for the dogs, but you are setting yourself up to make errors which could be avoided with thorough planning and engaging of all resources, including the huge knowledge base of two successful organisations who started off small themselves. You could learn from their experiences.

[Greylvr]

Lets just all forget I even suggested starting a rescue it really inst worth bickering for 3 days about it. I wanted to help the dogs but if this is how the rescue world works its pretty sad, I wanted to save dogs not get a massive migraine because I wont foster for a group already together. Clearly the dogs dont need help because regardless if many are dying while waiting to get into rescue these few groups have it all covered and there is clearly no need for anyone else to try to start a rescue.

Lets just enjoy the forums and stop fighting

[tdierikx]

The point you are missing is that the advice given to you here in these forums isn't just to pick at you or your aspirations - it is sound advice from people in the industry you wish to enter.

Let's face it, you have given some "interesting" examples of your prior work elsewhere, much of which sounds like you did it in the US. But you won't confirm or deny same when asked about it.

What you are construing as detraction is actually very sound advice given by people whe are involved in the particular field you are thinking of joining - the very least of which is the opportunity to network within the industry by fostering for one of 2 well established groups already doing an awesome job of it.

No-one is telling you NOT to start your own rescue at some point - what most are advocating is that you learn the ropes from within the industry before doing so.

Trying to play the guilt card by saying that "dogs are dying" because people don't agree with your point of view in this case is preaching to the choir really... do you really think that ANYONE involved in any sort of animal rescue isn't aware of what happens to those they can't take in? When you talk like that, it tends to set alarm bells ringing for many people here who have been around a long time and have seen what can happen when the best intentions end up an overwelming task for a new rescue. They are actually trying to ensure that you DON'T fall on your face with your venture...

T.

[Alkhe]

Greylvr, you have to understand that the people in this forum are obviously so engaged in this issue because they care, and have trod this path many times before.

There are people here who have had to pick up the pieces when someone's good intentions have gone awry - THAT is why this thread is 9 pages long, and people are emotional.

I would never throw water on a dog's face, and I wouldn't foster for GAP either. I have issues with a lot of things about GAP - I can't speak for everyone here but I brought them up because they are a well established, INDUSTRY ALIGNED group. If you are going to enter hte greyhound space in any capacity, you HAVE to understand how the industry works. Greyhound racing (and most greyhound breeding in Australia) is intimitely connected with the industry, and GAP is part and parce of that. I don't like a lot of their policies, and for that reason I wouldn't give them money, time or foster for them. BUT you need to KNOW about them.

I support GSN because I think they do fantastic work - I agree with their policies and have been "following" them for years.

If you aren't going to consider fostering for them because people on here like them, I'm at a loss for words. It's just petty and ill informed.

[Greylvr]

The point you are missing is that the advice given to you here in these forums isn't just to pick at you or your aspirations - it is sound advice from people in the industry you wish to enter.

Let's face it, you have given some "interesting" examples of your prior work elsewhere, much of which sounds like you did it in the US. But you won't confirm or deny same when asked about it.

What you are construing as detraction is actually very sound advice given by people whe are involved in the particular field you are thinking of joining - the very least of which is the opportunity to network within the industry by fostering for one of 2 well established groups already doing an awesome job of it.

No-one is telling you NOT to start your own rescue at some point - what most are advocating is that you learn the ropes from within the industry before doing so.

Trying to play the guilt card by saying that "dogs are dying" because people don't agree with your point of view in this case is preaching to the choir really... do you really think that ANYONE involved in any sort of animal rescue isn't aware of what happens to those they can't take in? When you talk like that, it tends to set alarm bells ringing for many people here who have been around a long time and have seen what can happen when the best intentions end up an overwelming task for a new rescue. They are actually trying to ensure that you DON'T fall on your face with your venture...

T.

Sigh..... You act as if I am some person who wants to start a rescue, I have run one before I had great success with it. But like I said we can just drop it now You guys are just going in circles with me we are not getting anywhere on this subject.

[tdierikx]

No - I'm acting as if you are some person who is wanting to start up a Greyhound rescue - and obviously haven't done that before.

As many people here have advised, ex-racing Greyhounds have somewhat different needs with regards to rescue than most "ordinary" dogs - something that you are seemingly poo-pooing and making claims that you know better than those who have actually been doing Greyhound rescue successfully for many years. You have passed judgement on their tried and true methods, but are not too happy about anyone questioning yours... you can't have your cake and eat it too.

You just don't seem to get the idea that if (or when) you might make one little mistake in rehoming an ex-racing Greyhound to the wrong home - and don't say that it can never happen, it can - you could be singlehandedly undoing much of the great work the established groups have done to get ex-racing Greys accepted by the general public. And that is why there has been much asking of questions about what you are looking to achieve with your new venture.

T.

[Greylvr]

No matter how many times I answer your questions you dont listen and ask the same questions so like i said just forget it we can go round and round and still get no where.

[tdierikx]

Well, actually there are a couple of questions I've asked that haven't been answered at all... but please don't assume that I haven't read each of your posts very carefully and then considered my answers to the concerns that you have raised before composing my replies.

There's no need to become combatative about it all - we are having a discussion, not an argument.

T.

[Rebanne]

Well, actually there are a couple of questions I've asked that haven't been answered at all... but please don't assume that I haven't read each of your posts very carefully and then considered my answers to the concerns that you have raised before composing my replies.

There's no need to become combatative about it all - we are having a discussion, not an argument.

T.

Hasn't answered mine either. I won't be holding my breath waiting for an answer.

[Greylvr]

I am not combative its frustration, and you seem very strong about your feelings which is why I dont see us getting anywhere. Like I said just pretend I never posted this if you can because I am over it. The way things were handled and the attacks were not needed the trying to ram fostering down my throat not needed. I wish I had just not posted it and just did my thing I wouldnt have got caught up in this whirlwind of whatever this is.

Almost remind me of a dog park someone comes in and tries to pee on a tree that another dog thinks is his there is a stand off, one dog nips the dog doesnt give so they go after them, the other dogs either walk away or join in on the nipping from all sides. So like that dog I have learned not to let people see me peeing on that tree and just stick to myself. I dont think Ill be hanging in the rescue forums too much, and I cant get into the breeder forums so not sure where that leaves me general dog chat I suppose.

[Salukifan]

I am not combative its frustration, and you seem very strong about your feelings which is why I dont see us getting anywhere. Like I said just pretend I never posted this if you can because I am over it. The way things were handled and the attacks were not needed the trying to ram fostering down my throat not needed. I wish I had just not posted it and just did my thing I wouldnt have got caught up in this whirlwind of whatever this is.

Almost remind me of a dog park someone comes in and tries to pee on a tree that another dog thinks is his there is a stand off, one dog nips the dog doesnt give so they go after them, the other dogs either walk away or join in on the nipping from all sides. So like that dog I have learned not to let people see me peeing on that tree and just stick to myself. I dont think Ill be hanging in the rescue forums too much, and I cant get into the breeder forums so not sure where that leaves me general dog chat I suppose.

And the sighthound thread in the breed forum.

[Greylvr]

I am not combative its frustration, and you seem very strong about your feelings which is why I dont see us getting anywhere. Like I said just pretend I never posted this if you can because I am over it. The way things were handled and the attacks were not needed the trying to ram fostering down my throat not needed. I wish I had just not posted it and just did my thing I wouldnt have got caught up in this whirlwind of whatever this is.

Almost remind me of a dog park someone comes in and tries to pee on a tree that another dog thinks is his there is a stand off, one dog nips the dog doesnt give so they go after them, the other dogs either walk away or join in on the nipping from all sides. So like that dog I have learned not to let people see me peeing on that tree and just stick to myself. I dont think Ill be hanging in the rescue forums too much, and I cant get into the breeder forums so not sure where that leaves me general dog chat I suppose.

And the sighthound thread in the breed forum.

Ill go check that out.

[Greytmate]

You seemed to have become frustrated very easily and this doesn't bode well for somebody wanting to run a rescue org.

You are not obliged to answer anyone's questions here but keep in mind that transparency is one of the ways that ethical rescue is judged.

The reason that so many people have put pressure on you here is because you want to start an organisation and that is something that has an effect on the whole rescue landscape in Australia.

There is nothing wrong with people rehoming dogs privately in the manner that you intend to do it. It's what dog breeders do and it's what some greyhound people do. Advertising individual good quality dogs for adoption in online classifieds or newspapers. If people want a dog and they don't want to get it from a rescue they can buy a pet this way, and you can put as many terms and conditions on the sale as you want.

However if you set up an organisation instead of doing your own private thing, you will be up for intense scrutiny because rescue organisations attract public interest and any mistakes you make will harm the reputation of all greyhound rescue. Something that is not nearly as popular in Australia as it is in the US or UK. Muzzle laws are new and if there are any negative greyhound incidents that make news then these new laws might be declared a failure and repealed. There is so much at stake here.

If you set up an organisation and attract foster carers then there is a massive risk that they will be burned just like you were or worse because you do not understand the pressures of greyhound rescue, the problems the dogs are likely to have, or the expectations of the community.

Work alone if you cannot deal with the type of questioning you get here and you will be left alone as long as you cause no problems. But if you set up an organisation pretending to be the expert on greyhound rescue when clearly you are not, and compete with good rescue for scant resources , then don't expect everyone to be happy about that.