New Rescue

[anniek]

So I foster for GAP while these other dogs are being put to death because GAP cant take them? I understand GAP is a great place people love them thats great but I am trying to help those that are falling through the cracks and dying while GAP is helping other dogs.

I'm not understanding your logic - if you foster for GAP, then they can take on another greyhound to replace the one you are fostering. As I said in an earlier post, without the financial & emnotional strain and liability. And while doing that you are getting to know the breed, and how their program works.

So, if you are running your new rescue group, are you fostering those dogs?

[Alkhe]

I actually don't hold GAP in particularly high regard, but my reasons aren't really relevant here.

Another rescue isn't necessarily going to help more dogs than those people fostering for an existing group. That's my point. If your aim is to really help the most dogs, a new rescue isn't a priori going to do that. You need carers, etc. That's where the helping comes in.

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[Greylvr]

So I foster for GAP while these other dogs are being put to death because GAP cant take them? I understand GAP is a great place people love them thats great but I am trying to help those that are falling through the cracks and dying while GAP is helping other dogs.

I'm not understanding your logic - if you foster for GAP, then they can take on another greyhound to replace the one you are fostering. As I said in an earlier post, without the financial & emnotional strain and liability. And while doing that you are getting to know the breed, and how their program works.

So, if you are running your new rescue group, are you fostering those dogs?

Yes I would be fostering them, and I wouldnt be expected to yell at a dog and throw water in its face if it whines at the door. I could choose to not place a dog that will be left outdoors for long periods of time stuff like that. As a small rescue we can take our time to adopt out dogs, we can be picky with who takes our dogs if we want a dog to be an indoor dog we can state that, not have to get them use to living outside because new owners might want that. What if I dont want that for a dog what if I think the dogs should be indoor dogs.

[Alkhe]

Pretty sure most greyhound people would agree with you there. Definitely gsn.

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[Rebanne]

You can ask people that adopt to do anything you like. You cannot enforce it.

Dogs in any state can be identified by earbrand and microchip but not all owners will update contact details.

Yes I know, but usually when people sign a contract they try to stick to it. I am not sure why my asking people to do this equates to me not being a good rescue, I can tell you really really don't want us to do this I just cant understand why. Why are we so bad? Why are we not capable of running a good rescue and helping dogs. Do you give all new rescues this much trouble or just greyhound ones? I have been involved in dogs since I Was 15 and volunteering at a vet, I spent all my adult life working for vets, going to school to be a vet tech, working at shelters and humane societies, running rescues. I think maybe its just you dont understand how dedicated I am to helping animals its not a hobby for me its a passion.

You need to read what I actually wrote and not imagine things. There are plenty of things for you to think about that you don't seem to have considered very well. Least of which is how your group is going to fill a different need to the others.

Gap victoria do have a handle on what the laws are. They have been around longer than some of the laws that apply to organizations that sell dogs and have worked hard to successfully lobby for laws to improve to help greyhound adoption.

If you are so dedicated and passionate about doing this well you shouldnt be taking such offence at people who are giving you good advice.

I am not taking offense per say but all I am getting from your posts are dont do it your not good enough just foster for GAP or the other rescue. I have stated my plans and I dont think they are bad.

I stated that we will be talking to the right people to make sure all the laws are being followed.

I stated that there is a need in my eyes the need is to take the dogs that the other rescues cant take in due to space and that are dying, to me that is a need maybe not to others but I see it as a need good dogs dying because there isnt enough room

You said I wasnt dog savvy yet I have outlined most of what I have done in my adult life with dogs which is a ton.

I must have to go back and read your posts because what I have taken from your posts are not to do it and to foster which I posted why I wont.

I have gotten good advice in this thread from others but your posts are not coming across as advice but rather picking at why we shoudl just forget the idea and go with fostering.

That was me not Greytmate. And you didn't say anything at the beginning at all of your "experience" which, and I am not trying to be rude, but none of us know whether it is true or not. And other people have joined up here and came out all guns blazing claiming all sorts of things which turned out to be not true. Not just in the rescue forum either.

To me you seem very inexperienced with sighthounds in general, greyhounds in particular. Sure you can learn but most people have to crawl before they walk, walk before they run. All your experience seems to be with bull breeds. It's why I think you should foster before anything else. Or do private adoptions. I knew someone who would get one greyhound at a time, do all the vet work and then find the right home for it. Funded privately by herself. I don't know anything about getting the various charity numbers etc but I can't imagine you get them for just you and hubby taking greyhounds from one trainer.

[Rebanne]

I am not taking offense per say but all I am getting from your posts are dont do it your not good enough just foster for GAP or the other rescue. I have stated my plans and I dont think they are bad.

The other group in Vic is GSN, Greyhound Safety Net and I actually do find it offensive that they have been mentioned several times by name but you just refer to them as the other rescue.

[anniek]

I am not taking offense per say but all I am getting from your posts are dont do it your not good enough just foster for GAP or the other rescue. I have stated my plans and I dont think they are bad.

The other group in Vic is GSN, Greyhound Safety Net and I actually do find it offensive that they have been mentioned several times by name but you just refer to them as the other rescue.

And GSN do not insist that dogs be kept outside and have buckets of water thrown over them. They only home greyhounds as indoor companion dogs.

[Rebanne]

I volunteer for GSN, who are ethical, and have good policies in place, which includes a plan B if a foster dog needs to be removed immediately. Have you considered that if you fostered for either GSN or GAP that you could play a very big part in "saving" 15 - 20 cat friendly greyhounds a year - the majority of which are killed due to lack of foster carers - without the expense, heartache and liability of trying to do the same on your own.

You sound very inexperiened with greyhounds which does concern me.

seems to have been missed by the OP.

lack of foster carers is what increases waiting lists.

Concerns me too.

[melzawelza]

Hi Greylvr,

I'm sorry about some of the responses you're getting. I do understand where people are coming from being wary but if you have strong policies and procedures in place and are as stringent as you say you will be I really don't see an issue with a new rescue starting. I understand that you wish to have your own policies rather than adhere to others, and I can understand that maybe you want to be able to screen and choose adoptive homes yourself, rather than leave it up to someone else.

I do have to make comment on something you said but please don't think I'm attacking you, I'm not, I just feel I have to mention:

It's not a case of hown MANY we can save/rehome... but of how WELL we can do it...

It only takes one wrong placement of a dog from rescue for the public perception to be tarnished against ALL rescues.

Is there a specific reason that you can't affiliate with one of the established and well respected groups already doing what you want to do?

T.

I agree with the bolded statements. I have already answered the question a bit back.

I'm not against people starting groups if there is a need for a group. But you havent identified a need to start a separate group except to describe your personal problems with other groups.

It's a bit unfair of you to do this and think that you can do better on your own when you seem to know very little about the groups you will be competing against. If you tell that story to the public it reflects badly on other rescues.

There have been others that rushed in to do what you are doing, and any mistakes they make reflects badly on all greyhound rescue and raises welfare concerns. So that is why alarm bells ring when you talk in a way that shows you are very unfamiliar with how adoption works in Victoria and the reasonable expectations of adopters.

I would never say anything to reflect badly on any rescue group. So the dogs that are dying while waiting for a spot in the larger groups arent a good reason to help them? I know that there are dog being PTS simply because they are out of time at the kennel and other rescues have no room for them and the wait can be 6 months or more. We will be getting all the laws and regulations we need to stick by this week. We have no intention of breaking any laws or placing dogs in homes that would be a danger to them or the breed.

Here I thought victoria was different but I guess its not, I guess some still see rescues as a competition which is sad because its not rescues should never feel they need to compete doesnt do much for the big picture. How do you see us as competing against other groups? These are dogs that they couldnt take any way so wouldnt that be helping in stead of competing.

If there are dogs dying because they cant get into a rescue isnt that a need? What if there was a group that could just save 2 or 3 dogs a month thats more dogs saved and not put to death just because there was no room at the rescues.

lack of foster carers is what hold up the works - for all rescues.

will you have the same restrictions on the greyhounds as you did the amstaff's - owned home, no neighbours with other pets? What will you do with your rescue dog if it turns out not suitable with your kids or cat? Sometimes their true personality takes a while to shine through. What's your back up plan?

And I'm not a rescue, no competition to me, but I am very aware of how hard groups like GAP and GSN have had to fight for the greyhound and I am very cautious when someone new comes on the scene promising all sorts of stuff. Greyhounds have a lot to lose.

No I wont have the same restrictions on the greyhounds as we did on the Am Staffs. Many greyhounds can and do get along with cats and small animals. If they dont test well with my cat they simply will be re homed with a family with no cats or plan to get cats. With the children there are to many variables to put a blanket decision on all the dogs. My kids were raised around rescue so they know the ins and outs, they love it and do understand that sometimes we can get a dog that is too far gone to be helped.

I am not promising all sorts of stuff I am not trying to sell someone a bridge, I am dedicated to helping a wonderful breed through education and adoption.

I am sorry that some of you guys dont feel we will do a good job but you dont know myself or my dedication to rescue and rescue dogs. You are free to knock me back but I just hope that you understand not everyone is a cowboy type rescue and really do want to do the right thing and know how to go about it.

I have to point out that Greyhounds are just as likely (if not more likely) to kill small animals as an Amstaff. There are many Amstaff and Pit types that live with cats happily (mine being one of them) with supervision from their owners, and dogs from most breeds would kill an intruding cat into their yard. Amstaffs are long removed from their 'fighting' heritage, much more removed than most individual Greys are from racing. Most are bred for very high prey drive.

I don't necessarily mean that you should go to the same lengths with the Greys as you did with the Amstaffs (I think it was a bit over the top personally for dogs that tested ok with other animals), but just that you shouldn't kid yourself that a Grey will be any less of a worry around small animals than an AmStaff would be.

That said it's clear you're passionate about the bull breeds and have done a lot for them, and that gets a big thumbs up in my book

[Greytmate]

Sigh..... I am not interested in fostering. Why is this so hard so are you saying that all greyhound rescues should close down and only foster for these 2 groups? That no new greyhound rescue should be made all those interested in running a rescue should just foster for these two groups? Why dont all rescues just close down and foster for the RSPCA? Why is this such a big deal that I have no interest in fostering?

If you have no interest in fostering, how are you going to recruit any foster carers? Can you sell an idea that you have no interest in yourself?

Many of the newer rescue groups were started by gap carers who then went out and started new orgsnisations to fill a niche that they saw. But what niche in the adoption market are you aiming for?

Your own qualifications are not all that impressive compared to those who are leading the way in greyhound adoption.

Maybe time to lose the ego and spend some months (not days) learning about the current situation before entering the market yourself.

[Greylvr]

Pretty sure most greyhound people would agree with you there. Definitely gsn.

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Its in the foster hand out on a rescues site

That was me not Greytmate. And you didn't say anything at the beginning at all of your "experience" which, and I am not trying to be rude, but none of us know whether it is true or not. And other people have joined up here and came out all guns blazing claiming all sorts of things which turned out to be not true. Not just in the rescue forum either.

To me you seem very inexperienced with sighthounds in general, greyhounds in particular. Sure you can learn but most people have to crawl before they walk, walk before they run. All your experience seems to be with bull breeds. It's why I think you should foster before anything else. Or do private adoptions. I knew someone who would get one greyhound at a time, do all the vet work and then find the right home for it. Funded privately by herself. I don't know anything about getting the various charity numbers etc but I can't imagine you get them for just you and hubby taking greyhounds from one trainer.

Well no way to prove it I guess well I can dig out the humane training certificates I have buried around here somewhere. I could give you the name and number to all the places I worked as references but thats a lot of work to prove to one person on the internet what I have accomplished in my life.

No the rescue was an all breed rescue specializing in working dogs ACDs BCs were what mostly came in. Thats what we were thinking of doing I only asked if we should do the non profit for advice in case someone had a really good reason to go that route. So why is it your ok with a private rescue but not a charity rescue? I certainly hope its not about money because rescuing isnt a business adventure for me, and most of the time its your own money going into the dogs.

[Rebanne]

Pretty sure most greyhound people would agree with you there. Definitely gsn.

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Its in the foster hand out on a rescues site

That was me not Greytmate. And you didn't say anything at the beginning at all of your "experience" which, and I am not trying to be rude, but none of us know whether it is true or not. And other people have joined up here and came out all guns blazing claiming all sorts of things which turned out to be not true. Not just in the rescue forum either.

To me you seem very inexperienced with sighthounds in general, greyhounds in particular. Sure you can learn but most people have to crawl before they walk, walk before they run. All your experience seems to be with bull breeds. It's why I think you should foster before anything else. Or do private adoptions. I knew someone who would get one greyhound at a time, do all the vet work and then find the right home for it. Funded privately by herself. I don't know anything about getting the various charity numbers etc but I can't imagine you get them for just you and hubby taking greyhounds from one trainer.

Well no way to prove it I guess well I can dig out the humane training certificates I have buried around here somewhere. I could give you the name and number to all the places I worked as references but thats a lot of work to prove to one person on the internet what I have accomplished in my life.

No the rescue was an all breed rescue specializing in working dogs ACDs BCs were what mostly came in. Thats what we were thinking of doing I only asked if we should do the non profit for advice in case someone had a really good reason to go that route. So why is it your ok with a private rescue but not a charity rescue? I certainly hope its not about money because rescuing isnt a business adventure for me, and most of the time its your own money going into the dogs.

Your certificates are of no interest to me. Greyhounds are not bull breeds or working dogs/mixes. So how many greyhounds have you owned?

ETA rephrase, how many greyhounds have you had in your home

Edited December 5, 2012 by Rebanne

[Greylvr]

And GSN do not insist that dogs be kept outside and have buckets of water thrown over them. They only home greyhounds as indoor companion dogs.

I have not looked at the foster papers on GSN I will do that but here is what I found on GAPs site.

Living indoors/outdoors: Whilst it is important to get your foster dog used to living indoors,

it is also important that they are used to living outdoors as well. It must be remembered that

the future adoptive home may not be able to have or want their dog indoors 24 hours a day. It

is important that the greyhound is used to equally living & sleeping both indoors & outdoors

before it can be adopted out. Of particular importance is to ensure that your foster dog gets

used to spending several hours at a time outside whilst you are home.

Whining/barking at doors: This is probably the number one problem we have with dogs

after adoption so it is vital that it is corrected in the foster home. The greyhound will bark,

whine, scratch or jump at the door to be let inside. The quickest way to stop this is with “water

therapy”. Keep a couple of small jugs filled with water by the door. When the foster dog

whines, barks, jumps or scratches, immediately say “AAHH” in a loud, growly voice, open the

door and throw the water (not the jug) at the dog.

Now if this is how they run their rescue fine but doesnt mean I have to agree or accept it unless I foster a dog then maybe I would have to accept it.

Hi Greylvr,

I'm sorry about some of the responses you're getting. I do understand where people are coming from being wary but if you have strong policies and procedures in place and are as stringent as you say you will be I really don't see an issue with a new rescue starting. I understand that you wish to have your own policies rather than adhere to others, and I can understand that maybe you want to be able to screen and choose adoptive homes yourself, rather than leave it up to someone else.

I do have to make comment on something you said but please don't think I'm attacking you, I'm not, I just feel I have to mention:

I have to point out that Greyhounds are just as likely (if not more likely) to kill small animals as an Amstaff. There are many Amstaff and Pit types that live with cats happily (mine being one of them) with supervision from their owners, and dogs from most breeds would kill an intruding cat into their yard. Amstaffs are long removed from their 'fighting' heritage, much more removed than most individual Greys are from racing. Most are bred for very high prey drive.

I don't necessarily mean that you should go to the same lengths with the Greys as you did with the Amstaffs (I think it was a bit over the top personally for dogs that tested ok with other animals), but just that you shouldn't kid yourself that a Grey will be any less of a worry around small animals than an AmStaff would be.

That said it's clear you're passionate about the bull breeds and have done a lot for them, and that gets a big thumbs up in my book

No I understand this and that policy was years back I came up with it 15 years ago. I did what I thought was best for the dogs and breed. Right or wrong I felt good about it.

[melzawelza]

And GSN do not insist that dogs be kept outside and have buckets of water thrown over them. They only home greyhounds as indoor companion dogs.

I have not looked at the foster papers on GSN I will do that but here is what I found on GAPs site.

Living indoors/outdoors: Whilst it is important to get your foster dog used to living indoors,

it is also important that they are used to living outdoors as well. It must be remembered that

the future adoptive home may not be able to have or want their dog indoors 24 hours a day. It

is important that the greyhound is used to equally living & sleeping both indoors & outdoors

before it can be adopted out. Of particular importance is to ensure that your foster dog gets

used to spending several hours at a time outside whilst you are home.

Whining/barking at doors: This is probably the number one problem we have with dogs

after adoption so it is vital that it is corrected in the foster home. The greyhound will bark,

whine, scratch or jump at the door to be let inside. The quickest way to stop this is with “water

therapy”. Keep a couple of small jugs filled with water by the door. When the foster dog

whines, barks, jumps or scratches, immediately say “AAHH” in a loud, growly voice, open the

door and throw the water (not the jug) at the dog.

Now if this is how they run their rescue fine but doesnt mean I have to agree or accept it unless I foster a dog then maybe I would have to accept it.

Hi Greylvr,

I'm sorry about some of the responses you're getting. I do understand where people are coming from being wary but if you have strong policies and procedures in place and are as stringent as you say you will be I really don't see an issue with a new rescue starting. I understand that you wish to have your own policies rather than adhere to others, and I can understand that maybe you want to be able to screen and choose adoptive homes yourself, rather than leave it up to someone else.

I do have to make comment on something you said but please don't think I'm attacking you, I'm not, I just feel I have to mention:

I have to point out that Greyhounds are just as likely (if not more likely) to kill small animals as an Amstaff. There are many Amstaff and Pit types that live with cats happily (mine being one of them) with supervision from their owners, and dogs from most breeds would kill an intruding cat into their yard. Amstaffs are long removed from their 'fighting' heritage, much more removed than most individual Greys are from racing. Most are bred for very high prey drive.

I don't necessarily mean that you should go to the same lengths with the Greys as you did with the Amstaffs (I think it was a bit over the top personally for dogs that tested ok with other animals), but just that you shouldn't kid yourself that a Grey will be any less of a worry around small animals than an AmStaff would be.

That said it's clear you're passionate about the bull breeds and have done a lot for them, and that gets a big thumbs up in my book

No I understand this and that policy was years back I came up with it 15 years ago. I did what I thought was best for the dogs and breed. Right or wrong I felt good about it.

It's clear you were a very responsible rescuer and very passionate about bull breeds. I only meant to highlight that the same concerns are there for Greys and possibly even more so, but if you are on to that then all good. :)

[Greylvr]

It's clear you were a very responsible rescuer and very passionate about bull breeds. I only meant to highlight that the same concerns are there for Greys and possibly even more so, but if you are on to that then all good. :)

Yeah I got ya :)

[Greylvr]

Sigh..... I am not interested in fostering. Why is this so hard so are you saying that all greyhound rescues should close down and only foster for these 2 groups? That no new greyhound rescue should be made all those interested in running a rescue should just foster for these two groups? Why dont all rescues just close down and foster for the RSPCA? Why is this such a big deal that I have no interest in fostering?

If you have no interest in fostering, how are you going to recruit any foster carers? Can you sell an idea that you have no interest in yourself?

Many of the newer rescue groups were started by gap carers who then went out and started new orgsnisations to fill a niche that they saw. But what niche in the adoption market are you aiming for?

Your own qualifications are not all that impressive compared to those who are leading the way in greyhound adoption.

Maybe time to lose the ego and spend some months (not days) learning about the current situation before entering the market yourself.

Some people love to foster and I dont need to sell anyone on an idea if they want to foster they will I wont twist people's arms to foster those type of foster homes usually dont work out.

I have already said a bunch of time that we plan to help those dogs that would otherwise be put down because they cant wait for a spot in other rescues.

My qualifications may not be much compared to some rescues but I am sure its a lot more than what other rescues have started on.

This isnt a EGO thing not sure where you got that idea, this is a want to fill a need and be able to rehome dogs that need help in a fashion I prefer.

So not sure what else you all want from me but this is going from a happy thread announcing my plans to a depressing thread that is nit picking and trying to convince someone to foster for a larger group not sure how it got twisted this way but it was.

I am thankful for all the supportive advice and such on this thread and through messages glad there are some people out there that can see a good thing when its there.

[melzawelza]

I have found it hard when fostering for other groups sometimes when I don't 100% agree with their rehoming policies (very hard to see foster cats and kittens you've raised and fallen in love with go to an outdoor home and imagining them being squished).

Doesn't mean that the group is bad, or even wrong... just different to how you feel and when you fall in love with that animal it's hard when that decision is out of your control, so I understand where you're coming from totally in wanting to start your own.

Edited December 5, 2012 by melzawelza

[Plan B]

Thank you for all your help. Who says this forum is scary you have all been great.

Famous last words.

Good luck with your rescue endeavour. I started my rescue with absolutely no qualifications, only years of experience, and we've done pretty darn well. I'm glad I didn't put up a thread about it here.

Though, just a tip. If you plan on utilising foster carers, it really is about selling the idea of fostering. You're not forcing people to foster who usually wouldn't, you're informing them about something they may not have known existed (there are many out there who have no idea about fostering). Rescue, like business, needs some good marketing and some thinking outside the box in order to attract potential foster carers. :)

Edited December 5, 2012 by Plan B

[Greylvr]

Thank you for all your help. Who says this forum is scary you have all been great.

Famous last words.

Good luck with your rescue endeavour. I started my rescue with absolutely no qualifications, only years of experience, and we've done pretty darn well. I'm glad I didn't put up a thread about it here.

Though, just a tip. If you plan on utilising foster carers, it really is about selling the idea of fostering. You're not forcing people to foster who usually wouldn't, you're informing them about something they may not have known existed (there are many out there who have no idea about fostering). Rescue, like business, needs some good marketing and some thinking outside the box in order to attract potential foster carers. :)

Spoke too soon I know lol Glad your rescue worked out! As far as fosters go we will just see where we end up but now I am a bit scared to consider it wouldnt want to step on the big boys toes and compete by taking a foster home away we will see but thanks for the nice words.

[Plan B]

Spoke too soon I know lol Glad your rescue worked out! As far as fosters go we will just see where we end up but now I am a bit scared to consider it wouldnt want to step on the big boys toes and compete by taking a foster home away we will see but thanks for the nice words.

Take the positives from this thread and discard all else. (Though, I think even some harsh criticisms have some good advice in there somewhere).

Never worry about stepping on toes in Rescue. Anyone who gets offended by another Rescue Group actually rescuing responsibly probably shouldn't be in rescue to begin with. Whether someone fosters for you or another group, there's still someone fostering.

Edited December 5, 2012 by Plan B