Trainer (or Training Help) For Swf's

[minimax]

A friend of mine has recently acquired two 6 year old dogs - they look like maltese x shih tzu, from her neighbor who was moving back to South Africa and couldn't take them with her. There is one male and one female, littermate brother and sister. Very little information came with them, luckily vet records came with them and since they are neighbors they are still taking them to the came vet so at least they can get some history from them.

The main issue they seem to be facing is the dogs are completely unsocialised. They don't play, either with each other, toys or other dogs, and they didn't really know how to walk on a lead. They are much better on lead now, after being walked regularly, but the one issue they still have is barking constantly at other dogs when they are out walking. It's also started escalating so they are now just barking constantly when they are out around people! They are always on lead, and it's more a "I've just found my voice and I'm goin to use it" sort of bark.

As their previous owners were South African, any commands the dog know aren't in english so any training has to be started all over again and the new owners are a bit lost with where to go for help. They don't want to do any group training, they'd prefer some one-on-one help to start with, and I'm not sure of who to suggest as they are SWF's (and I'd feel weird suggesting most trainers or behaviours used on here for big dogs with bigger problems, if you know what I mean :laugh: ). They are in St Ives, NSW but go to Wisemans Ferry most weekends so can go anywhere around either areas.

When I took my pugs to meet them, Max my 13 month old pulled all her best moves to get them to play - bouncing around, play-bowing, play-slapping and they just looked at her like she wasn't even there, but didn't run away or anything.

So, any suggestions? Thanks :)

[Kavik]

Is it possible to find out what commands the dogs already know? Might be worth it just to know and learn those few words so they can at least communicate a bit with the dogs. They can then replace the old commands with the new ones.

[sas]

Can I reccomend they walk the dogs seperately to start with, I think they'll find a noticeable difference and it's also easier to work with just the one at a time.

[disintegratus]

Firstly, good on them for wanting to get some help rather than going with the same old mentality of "they're small, so it doesn't matter, they don't need to be trained"

I could be wrong, but I don't think they will learn to play now, I think it's too late. And besides that, they may just not be dogs who enjoy playing with other dogs. Surely if they've lived with each other for 6 years, they would've figured out some semblance of play with each other. On the other hand, them barking *may* be their attempts at interaction, which could eventually lead to them wanting to play.

I'd try to initiate play slowly, associate toys etc with good things, maybe they'll pick it up.

I couldn't suggest a trainer in those areas, but I second sas' comment about walking them separately at first. Makes a HUGE difference.

If it is possible to find out what the dogs already know, I'd do that as well. Maybe try an online translator just to see if they know the basics if your friend can't get in contact with the owners.

[megan_]

Is it possible to find out what commands the dogs already know? Might be worth it just to know and learn those few words so they can at least communicate a bit with the dogs. They can then replace the old commands with the new ones.

The vast, vast majority of South Africans speak English - especially those that have immigrated to Australia. My guess is that they aren't responding because someone else is giving the commands. I know that if someone just told my boy to "weave" he'd look at them quizzically, and yet he knows the command from me.

I'd start with them from scratch, take them to a good obedience club that uses motivational methods and start to develop a relationship with the dogs.

Re: playing, often dogs that are a bit overwhelmed don't play. It took a good year or two before Lucy really started to play with Fergus. Give them time and let them settle in. I don't believe it is too late at all, she is now an expert player, she just doesn't play as often as he'd like.

[hankdog]

Well sit is the same in English and Afrikaans, just flatten the I a bit. Come is "kom" which has the o pronounced the same as in "on". There you go, online translator. I'm in St Ives and am using Vicki Austin out at Hornsby, only a short drive and she wouldn't have a problem with swf's. She's been very good for my short, chunky, angry.

[fuzzy82]

I don't quite get the comment about not wanting to get a trainer for them because they're small...? I run my own dog training business, and I work with big dogs and small dogs, I probably get just as many small dogs as big dogs, and basic training is the same for all of them.

[megan_]

I don't quite get the comment about not wanting to get a trainer for them because they're small...? I run my own dog training business, and I work with big dogs and small dogs, I probably get just as many small dogs as big dogs, and basic training is the same for all of them.

I believe that the OP was saying is that most of the trainers she knows are behaviorists dealing with serious problems. She wants suggestions for trainers that deal with basics and deal with small dogs too.

[Alkhe]

Can I reccomend they walk the dogs seperately to start with, I think they'll find a noticeable difference and it's also easier to work with just the one at a time.

Totally agree. I can't suggest a trainer but I know from experience that if you put a dog with a propensity to bark at other dogs (especially while on lead) with ANOTHER dog like that.. barking will ensue :laugh: . It can be overwhelming trying to get one to stop when they're both going off, and it's much easier to get one's attention to redirect it, than two little barking dogs.

My mum's dog Gretel is a yapper, and my Maggie turns into a hellish little yapper if she's with Gretel. Even if one even sees another dog outside the car window, they'll just go mental. And Maggie is not like that when she's by herself, or with my other dog!

[julesluvscavs]

MY Cavs are older now, but both of them don't play with each other like they used too, and both don't play with toys anymore.

When we fostered a small dog earlier this year, they did sniff her and interact, but not really play with it as such..

Edited December 3, 2012 by Jules♥Cavs

[mixeduppup]

I have SA friends that live in SA and they speak English. Perhaps the dogs aren't trained in any language.

[mixeduppup]

My friend just sent me this

In Afrikaans, "come" is similar "kom," "sit" is the same in both languages. "Stay" is "bly" pronounced as in "blade"

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

Poor little things have probably just lived in the house/backyard and never been out OR they barked when taken out and the people stopped going because of it.

It's called "on lead aggression" and you can work on it but definitely need the dogs taken out one at a time.

I've trained elderly dogs - these two have many years ahead of them but it will take time and practice so hope your friend is up for that.

Get harnesses, teach the dogs to "sit" - this could even be learned from the internet - you can find out how to do anything there!

When walking one dog at a time, when you see another dog coming you distract the dog by getting it to sit and feed treats. Or walk in the opposite direction.

I saw this on a dog training show and retrained my terrible 7 yr old Foxie who was horrendous on the lead. It took about 2 weeks.

He had ruined all my walks as he set off my other dogs and made it unpleasant so it was well worth the effort.

I'm near St Ives if they need doggie advice! They need to take great care with treating the dogs for ticks as St Ives is one of the worst tick areas in Sydney. Can recommend groomers if they need.

[chuckandsteve]

I think its fair asking for a trainer who deals alot with swf as my swf has small dog syndrome and really has no similar training skills as my 2 bull breeds.

While my bully trainer is great with them her techniques were no where near as effective in the swf we had to use a totally different technique.

Edited December 3, 2012 by chuckandsteve

[Zug Zug]

I think a good (experienced) trainer will adapt their methods to suit the needs of the dog in front of them.

So what they need is a good trainer, who works nearby. The fact that they are SWFs shouldn't make much difference really, but the experience of the trainer is important.

Any trainer who's been around for a while will have worked with plenty of little dogs and should have a good bag of tricks to use to help your friend.

Good on them for giving these dogs a home and for taking them out for walks!

[Katdogs]

:lol: I've had two Malt x Shih and they were both stubborn little s*** with a lot of attitude! Both food/resource guarders and both yappy when they met other strange dogs. Both from very undiscoplined backgrounds.

Compared to 'training' my LabX and Kelpie, they both needed a lot of time, love and strict rules. They just weren't used to being dogs and seemed to react positively to having rules, even if they grumbled. They had huge hearts and could be very loving too.

Good luck! Toughest dogs I've ever dealt with.

[minimax]

:lol: I've had two Malt x Shih and they were both stubborn little s*** with a lot of attitude! Both food/resource guarders and both yappy when they met other strange dogs. Both from very undiscoplined backgrounds.

Compared to 'training' my LabX and Kelpie, they both needed a lot of time, love and strict rules. They just weren't used to being dogs and seemed to react positively to having rules, even if they grumbled. They had huge hearts and could be very loving too.

Good luck! Toughest dogs I've ever dealt with.

Pretty much sounds like these two - very undisciplined backgrounds, and unsocialised. The new owners took them out the other day to the kids school, the dogs yapped non-stop at all the people! It's driving them batty.

They are sweet dogs, they just seem to think they are little people, not little dogs :laugh:

[minimax]

I don't quite get the comment about not wanting to get a trainer for them because they're small...? I run my own dog training business, and I work with big dogs and small dogs, I probably get just as many small dogs as big dogs, and basic training is the same for all of them.

I believe that the OP was saying is that most of the trainers she knows are behaviorists dealing with serious problems. She wants suggestions for trainers that deal with basics and deal with small dogs too.

Yes, what megan said. Not sure where you got the idea I wasn't asking for a trainer, as my entire post (even the post title) was about finding a trainer, or training help :laugh:

[minimax]

Well sit is the same in English and Afrikaans, just flatten the I a bit. Come is "kom" which has the o pronounced the same as in "on". There you go, online translator. I'm in St Ives and am using Vicki Austin out at Hornsby, only a short drive and she wouldn't have a problem with swf's. She's been very good for my short, chunky, angry.

lol thanks. As you'd know a lot of people around St Ives speak Afrikaans so some friends have tried some commands on the dogs (who's names are Madiba & Zindzi :laugh: ) and they didn't respond either, so I'm thinking the dogs just aren't really trained - but one of them did sit when I produced a treat (and then didn't eat said treat) but I think it was a co-incidence as it never did it again

I'll pass on Vicki Austin's details to them, thanks for that.

[zeebie]

Despite the old adage "You can't teach an old dog new tricks" YES you can!

Firstly these dogs have formed their own pack, one being the more dominant then the other and my guess will be that it is the bitch!

So firstly they need seperation, one (male) taken for short periods on his own given lots of attention, grooming simple little trick training with high value treats (chicken wing/chicken neck) they will discover what these dogs love more then anything. consistently everyday this needs to happen until male dog is following new owner and paying full attention to them, then start same deal with Bitch and before they know it (probably around 4 months) they will have different dogs in the house. also seperate crates will be needed for beginning of training in getting dogs to think as 2 dogs not one following others lead. Lots of crate training games, feeding in crate etc.

As big a pain as it is as someone suggessted walk seperately for now and everytime a bark is given, a response with a firm aarh.... turn dog facing away from what it is barking at and immediately it is quite REWARD and voice praise, again consistency is the key, in the house if barking commences same deal both dogs (focus on the initiator) given same firm tone AARGH and then the high pitched "come" and when they cease barking and come to owner praise and reward.

I have a nine year old who up until early this year had never tugged in his life and new puppy came along and now they are the tug masters and he has learnt to 'puppy play' so possibly again seperating the dogs and introducing the Bitch to a stonger temperament small breed dog to walk with and chase ball and learn to play and interact with will then rub off on the male dog, the old saying 2 is company 3 is a crowd definately works for dogs, 2 are happy together they don't want a 3rd in the mix but divide and conquer :laugh:

I would definately suggest they take dogs to a well run obedience school as if for nothing else the peer support and the dogs will settle into this environment eventually, right now they are just dealing with total upheaval in their lives. And don't underestimate the command issue, these dogs WILL know exactly what is said if said the right way and like kids say it often enough and they get the message (you hope) :)