minyvlz Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 Hello, I have a foster puppy aged approximately 6 weeks old, not vaccinated yet. He has been with me for a week now (wormed on Tues with Milbemax - and subsequently pooped A LOT of roundworms out), and has had diarrhoea the whole time. Belly has been huge from the beginning (hence the worming). I have been giving him goat's milk/chicken broth/ pedialyte for hydration. Should I be giving him some rice to firm up his stools? I would do pumpkin but I can't find any pumpkin in supermarkets here, not sure why. Also not sure if firming up the stool is a good solution in this case. His weight has been increasing, not lethargic (unless after a big meal), and has a great appetite. My next course of action would be to do a fecal, but unfortunately it is apparently a little troublesome in this country/case (pup has to hospitalised, put on a drip to do fecal and blood test as this is the rule of the clinic that the foster organisation works with). Any tips about training and socialisation? He's trying to bite everything he sees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erinonthefarm Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 Nothing very constructive to add except Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tralee Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 Can't help with the tummy but let him chew. He can be vaccinated at 6 weeks. Put something in his mouth when he bites, and encourage him not to bite you. Dogs don't have hands, they use their mouth to explore. Enjoy this stage of puppy mayhem. And good luck with the intervention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ams Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 If he is only having liquids then he can't firm up his poop. At 6 weeks he doesnt need milk anymore. I'd start on a very small amount of chicken and rice and gradually increase. It should firm up. He may need another worming in a week or so if he had heaps of worms. I do rescue dogs/ puppies on arrival and then again at two weeks. As someone else has said, he can be vaccinated at 6 weeks but they probably won't if he has the runs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeebie Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 Puppies go through several stages from birth -> Adult experiencing multiple gut changes along the way and subsequent bowel excretion difference, puppies often have upset digestive tracts when exposed to changes in diet,medication,parasitic investation & disease process etc. The infestation with parasites would definately have had a signifiant effect on the puppies GI linning and the mucosa. Hence the probably cause of the diahorrea. So for now bland diet and fluids to hydrate, while the goats milk is good I would probably go with it watered down a bit to reduce the fat content. I would just stick to plain cooked chicken and see how things settle in the next few days and then very gradually you can re introduce other items the pup was previously on. Lite plain yoghurt is also good for helping to re-establish normal gut flora. There are a couple of gastritis bugs dogs can get, and also diahorrea is a symptom of several nasty other things, but if the pup is active, interested in its food and not vomiting, or showing signs of pain, confusion or temperature, then gut rest is what is needed to allow the lining to regrow. However Vet check should be done to rule out obstruction with bowel matter overflow - which gives foul smelling, copious amounts of watery stool and sometimes the opposite with total abscence of any bowel matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minyvlz Posted December 2, 2012 Author Share Posted December 2, 2012 Nothing very constructive to add except He is very cute. It's the thing that makes people love him despite how naughty he's been :D Can't help with the tummy but let him chew. He can be vaccinated at 6 weeks. Put something in his mouth when he bites, and encourage him not to bite you. Dogs don't have hands, they use their mouth to explore. Enjoy this stage of puppy mayhem. And good luck with the intervention. Thanks for the tip about the chewing! I have been told this age is where they are taught bite inhibition by Mum and littermates so I guess I have to be those for now. Yes, he can be vaccinated now but nobody wants to vaccinate a sick puppy. Pity because it's better to go overseas to be adopted asap. If he is only having liquids then he can't firm up his poop. At 6 weeks he doesnt need milk anymore. I'd start on a very small amount of chicken and rice and gradually increase. It should firm up. He may need another worming in a week or so if he had heaps of worms. I do rescue dogs/ puppies on arrival and then again at two weeks. As someone else has said, he can be vaccinated at 6 weeks but they probably won't if he has the runs. Ah no, he's not only having liquids. He's just having lots to prevent dehydration. The milk is very little, just to get him to drink more. It's his favourite thing in the world (even stuck his nose in my ice cream today). He's currently eating only raw chicken. He has had lots of worms in his poop, but the tummy is still huge. Is it safe to worm one week after the first worming, or do we have to wait two? Puppies go through several stages from birth -> Adult experiencing multiple gut changes along the way and subsequent bowel excretion difference, puppies often have upset digestive tracts when exposed to changes in diet,medication,parasitic investation & disease process etc. The infestation with parasites would definately have had a signifiant effect on the puppies GI linning and the mucosa. Hence the probably cause of the diahorrea. So for now bland diet and fluids to hydrate, while the goats milk is good I would probably go with it watered down a bit to reduce the fat content. I would just stick to plain cooked chicken and see how things settle in the next few days and then very gradually you can re introduce other items the pup was previously on. Lite plain yoghurt is also good for helping to re-establish normal gut flora. There are a couple of gastritis bugs dogs can get, and also diahorrea is a symptom of several nasty other things, but if the pup is active, interested in its food and not vomiting, or showing signs of pain, confusion or temperature, then gut rest is what is needed to allow the lining to regrow. However Vet check should be done to rule out obstruction with bowel matter overflow - which gives foul smelling, copious amounts of watery stool and sometimes the opposite with total abscence of any bowel matter. Very informative, thank you. Wouldn't the deworming have settled his GI lining by now? It's been about 6 days since the worming. He's currently eating only raw chicken. Pup was with rescuers for a week, also on raw chicken and had solid poop then. It was only after they tried giving him some canned food and puppy milk that the diarrhoea started. He has some goat yoghurt from time to time but I limit it. Is a fecal test necessary if he's been wormed already? Or should they still check for other nasties? Will get the vet to check for any obstruction. Thank you so much everyone for the input! Much appreciated :) :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espinay2 Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 (edited) Can you provide a stronger probiotic to help settle and moderate his system? Something like Protexin would be good. Also read up everything you can on the net about raising a singleton pup. Edited December 2, 2012 by espinay2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minyvlz Posted December 2, 2012 Author Share Posted December 2, 2012 Thanks, am going to GNC to see what they have. He had a sister who was tortured to death while he was 4 weeks old. Is he still considered a singleton? I don't know many people here, much less people with dogs to socialize with. He is also polydactyl, with 6 toes. Is that okay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeebie Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 (edited) Wouldn't the deworming have settled his GI lining by now? It's been about 6 days since the worming. He's currently eating only raw chicken. Pup was with rescuers for a week, also on raw chicken and had solid poop then. It was only after they tried giving him some canned food and puppy milk that the diarrhoea started. He has some goat yoghurt from time to time but I limit it. Is a fecal test necessary if he's been wormed already? Or should they still check for other nasties? Will get the vet to check for any obstruction. The deworming medication may or may not have had any direct effect on his gut, but all those worms would certainly have done so with all their knawing away, re worm a week after to make sure all left overs and eggs are gone especially in a bad infestation. Raw chicken is very bad for puppies as it can often carry the salmonella bacteria which will definately give any dog a case of the hurry gut, also does same to humans nasty nasty bug, when pups are over a year and have tougher immune systems chicken necks and wings raw are ok but young pups chicken should always be cooked. Canned food + sudden change in diet = bowel upset, throw in the mix of worms and different environment and hey presto sick puppy syndrome. No need for any feacal test as such only if obvious blood or to exclude salmonalla, which it sounds like he may have. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC339295/ http://perfectpuppycare.com/how-to-make-sure-your-puppy-doesnt-get-salmonella/ Edited December 2, 2012 by zeebie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeebie Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 He is also polydactyl, with 6 toes. Is that okay? This is extract from a paper on the subject of research done into dogs with extra toes http://www.genetics.org/content/179/4/2163.full.pdf "CONGENITAL malformations of the vertebrate limb are often observed as abnormal numbers of digits.One class of defect is preaxial polydactyly (PPD), which is caused by alterations in the anteroposterior patterning of limb development (Hill et al. 2003; Horikoshi et al.2003). Dogs in general have four digits in the hind limb,presumably due to an evolutionary adaptation (Galiset al. 2001). However, in a few breeds, including Great Pyrenees, five or six digits have been intentionally maintained through breeding. In addition, most breeds often display this extra digit as a genetic variation, although the number of digits (five) in the forelimb is essentially unchanged. This type of dominant genetic alteration has been commonly called ‘‘dewclaw,’’ but is more accurately described as ‘‘hind-limb-specific PPD.’’ Rarely, polydactyl mutations involving both the fore and hind limbs occur,as reported in breeds like the Norwegian Lundehund (Fogle 2000), although their genetic bases are poorly understood." so nothing to worry about puppy doesn't know he has an extra one :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espinay2 Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Thanks, am going to GNC to see what they have. He had a sister who was tortured to death while he was 4 weeks old. Is he still considered a singleton? I don't know many people here, much less people with dogs to socialize with. He is also polydactyl, with 6 toes. Is that okay? Yes, I would still consider him a 'singleton' and treat him as if he is one, as you are raising him during the important socialisation periods without the benefit of littermates. Here is information on the development periods that may help you: http://www.briardsbriards.com/oa_pup_behav.htm Here is a good article: http://susangarrettdogagility.com/2011/02/the-singleton-puppy/ Are there organisations that can help you find someone with other pup to help? (I have no idea where you are). Vet clinics or dog clubs or rescue organisations or breeders for example, if you approach them, may have some ideas. As my breed has double dewclaws on the hind legs as an important breed trait I see no issue with a dog being polydactyl :D . There are quite a number of breeds that have this trait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 He's currently eating only raw chicken. Pup was with rescuers for a week, also on raw chicken and had solid poop then. I would steam the chicken and add a little white rice. Good luck, sounds like the little devil is in good hands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarieEvans Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 (edited) Any tips about training and socialisation? He's trying to bite everything he sees. Hey, I have to say you have a very cute puppy, he's so adorable. Anyway, he's still a puppy which is why he's biting anything he sees. That's just how puppies tend to explore the world. Notice how they would use their mouths to play with their litter mates too? Mouthing is completely natural to puppies. But you should really consider letting him play with some other dogs in a litter as this is a form of socialization. Putting him inside a litterbox will help him know what's an acceptable behavior from what's not as his litter mates will surely punish him if he does something wrong by not playing with him anymore. To work on the mouthing problems, you might want to give your puppy something to chew on, something that you wouldn't mind him biting into rather than household items or furniture inside the house. You can also start training him now as most breeders would be training puppies around 4-6 weeks old. Marie Edited December 4, 2012 by MarieEvans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pockets Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 I have heard raw chicken is no good for growing puppies, it provides little nutrition and does something to the calcium levels... He would be much better of on something like warm soaked Advance puppy rehydratable kibble and puppy advance canned as well as some raw beef.. Rice will do little, there is no nutrition in there at all.... He's a growing puppy, feed puppy food as above as it's designed with the nutritional needs for growing puppies... I would never fees growing pups raw chicken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 I have heard raw chicken is no good for growing puppies, it provides little nutrition and does something to the calcium levels... He would be much better of on something like warm soaked Advance puppy rehydratable kibble and puppy advance canned as well as some raw beef.. Rice will do little, there is no nutrition in there at all.... He's a growing puppy, feed puppy food as above as it's designed with the nutritional needs for growing puppies... I would never fees growing pups raw chicken Pockets,, seems you missed some info.... this puppy has had diarrhoea for some time, and is not in good condition ....but improves on raw chicken , being used temporarily .along with the rice ,which is easy to digest and a great energy source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pockets Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Most puppy canned foods and kibble are chicken based and have much more nutrients for a growing puppy than raw chicken on it's own... If anything I would be boiling and shredding the chicken, the chance of salmonella in uncooked chicken especially is a risk to an already compromised or weak puppy... Just my opinion is all :) I would remove dairy all together and put on good quality puppy food with raw beef mixed in and if any dairy perhaps from natural yoghurt which has lots of good bacteria :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 (edited) He should be checked for coccidia and fed a balanced diet. If kept on chicken and rice, the poor bugger will get rickets to add to his issues. Take him to a vet. Edited December 7, 2012 by Haredown Whippets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pockets Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Agree with you there Haredown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 If the pup has Coccidia, the sooner it's treated the better... however, Coccidia and Giarda can have similar symptoms, so a fecal float may be the go to make sure that your pup doesn't have either bug. I recently had an unwell foster pup that had Coccidia - we treated with Baycox (used off label in dogs as it's actually for pigs - dosage is 0.1ml per kg of pup weight) - feeding human grade chicken mince alternated with a high grade premium puppy kibble saw her start to thrive nicely. Once she was gobbling down the kibble with as much gusto as the chicken mince, the mince was slowly withdrawn from her diet. T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minyvlz Posted January 5, 2013 Author Share Posted January 5, 2013 (edited) Pup has finished all his vaccinations and is going to Germany soon. Fecal test never happened due to vet deeming it unnecessary as apparently the worming covers Coccidia. Found some pumpkin at a farmers' market which firmed up his stools, then kept him on prey model raw (with occasional yoghurt as he likes it) - thanks for all those who suggested diet changes, but kibble was never an option. Healthy and happy at 5.5kg with one ear up. :) ETA: No puppies here for socialisation, unfortunately. Hundreds of thousands of stray dogs in this city alone though. We do what we can. Edited January 5, 2013 by minyvlz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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