My Boy Has Atopic Dermititis

[Bobishisname]

Hi everyone,

I'm new here. I have a near 3 year old cross breed boy. Last week we found out he suffers from atopic dermititis. We has suspected it for awhile. Ever since his was a pup he would stratch. It would get worse coming into winter and summer. In the past I have tried a food elimination diet, it seemed to help a little but his itchiness would never stop.

I took him to Anvet here in Brisbane, and he is certain it is atopic dermititis, going by past food elimination and when/ where he is scratching. I should have also mentioned he sneezes a lot and rubs his face on the furniture. Anyway he told me we could get some testing done that will tell us what he is allergic to and to desensitize but would cost $1000 and is only effective for 80% of dogs. Unfortunately we can't afford this at present.

He is now currently on 5mg of cortisone and a daily antihistamine (currently telfast 60mg)and it's worked a treat. I haven't seen him go so long without scratching it's beautiful.

Tomorrow is the first day we move to 2.5mg of cortisone, which will continue for 6 days then, then every second day. He told me to keep an eye on him, and adjust amounts as required, but hopefully the aim is to get him off the cortisone and continue only with the antihistamine as necessary.

I have read high doses of cortisone is undesireable and can cause some nasty short and long term side effects. But the vet reassured me he is on a very low dose, and would unlikely cause any side effects. Which has been the case short term, it hasn't seemed to have changed him.

Can anyone who has or is in the same boat give me some more information about which antihistamine they use, or how often they use the cortisone and what you know about cortisone. Is this amount my boy on more or less your dog is on. Sorry just relised I should have mentioned he weighs 9.2kg at present.

Any advice or information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Edited November 21, 2012 by Bobishisname

[persephone]

Welcome :)

This must be very frustrating for you

I have found a couple of threads which may be helpful? CLICK HERE and CLICK HERE

Best of luck with it :)

[Bobishisname]

Welcome :)

This must be very frustrating for you

I have found a couple of threads which may be helpful? CLICK HERE and CLICK HERE

Best of luck with it :)

Thank you heaps. A few emotions really. Frustration, but also relief that he finally has some relief from scratching but I'm also really apprehensive about what's to come.

The vet was absolutely lovely, the best I have found (well have only been to 3) but will def be sticking with him. He reassured me that the dose he is on is low and not to worry about long term side effects, as he is confident that he shouldn't need them long term. Since last week I have started some research (which is how I came across this site) about it and I think he is right. I read some posts about it causing some unwanted side effects but a member (can't remember their name) spoke about long term side effects being from high doses etc, which is what my vet said.

Thank you again. I'm really glad I have found this site, as I have already learnt so much.

[Bobishisname]

I just went through those threads again and it's the member called Stormie that agrees with what my vet is saying. Do you know if stormie is a regular on this forum? I would love to hear more from them.

[Bobishisname]

o.k now I'm confused. My vet said to me cortisone but I just re-read the packed and it says pred. Which i'm assuming is prednisone. I have read they are practically the same but prednisone is a much stronger steriod. Of course, now I'm worried about long term effects Stormie if you read this, is your dog taking cortisone or prednisone?

I have also just seen I can buy both forms on-line alot cheaper than I paid at the vet (which I thought was pretty affordable anyway)but I just need a script. Just wondering if anyone has tried this?

[ESCS]

It might be worthwhile talking to your vet about cyclosporin(Atopica). It's pricier than pred but worked well for our atopic dog and I was told it doesn't have significant long term side effects. I also increased our dog's intake of omega oils which I think helped as well.

[Bobishisname]

hi ESCS, thanks for your reply. Yes the vet did talk about atopica, but we decided to try the above drug treatment plan first as it was cheaper and see how he goes once he is weaned. I was just looking on the net for a generic for atopica and apparently there is one, but from what I can see is only for sale in america and canada. You can buy it and have it delivered you just need a script. 90 x 25mg tablets were $96, which is about what I think the vet said for a month supple of atopica here, does that sound right? I wonder if he would write a script for me??? I guess I can only ask if his current plan fails.

[westiemum]

Hi Bobishisname. Welcome to the forum :)

I have an 11 year old westie with atopic dermatitis. She was on the Pfizer drug trial earlier in the year and initially it worked brilliantly. She was on the control drug which was Atopica. Her skin improved enormously. I've since kept her on it on a reduced dosage (3 times per week, 50mg) which seemed to hold her. However just recently she has become intermittently incontinent and I believe the Atopica is to blame. After she has her Atopica at night now, she has an accident the next day. Stop the Atopica = no accident. Ad hoc internet reports support that incontinence is sometimes associated with Atopica.

So because I stopped the Atopica (the accidents were making her miserable, her scratching has increased again - to the point she was waking me up at night. I was desperate at 2.30 am one morning so I googled (yes at that hour!) and found some information on apple cider vinegar(preferably organic) for itchy dogs, so at 2.30am, as I had some on hand, I diluted it (1:5) and wiped it on her tummy and between her toes and on the top of her paws - and bingo - no more scratching that night and I got some sleep - and an even better result after three days - and I'm sleeping again.

And its a damn sight cheaper than Atopica...

Hope that helps. :)

[karly101]

My boy is on Atopica every 2nd day... you can also ask if your vet can prescribe the human equivelent which is Neoral which is a lot cheaper than the dog version. Some vets won't do it (because technically they should prescribe the dog version) but if you couldn't otherwise afford the treatment its worthwhile asking.

I would choose to do the injections if my boy reacted strongly enough to the test (he tested positive to many things but not enough that they would start them). Because add in your costs of repeated vet visits, medications and the injections will probably be much more cost effective in the long term.

[ESCS]

Bob, I think I was paying approx $65 for a packet of Atopica which I think lasted about 2 weeks. We then got the compounded version (cyclosporine) which was cheaper and closer to the amount you quoted. Sorry for being so sketchy (we haven't used it for a long time). It was suggested to me that I could get a script and order it directly from the company that makes it but we were able to manage without the medication soon after I was given this info so I did not follow through on this. For our tibbie, the cyclosporine/Atopica reduced his itching significantly but he was still itchy. Putting him on a diet that worked for him (sweet potato/fish based) with supplements to improve his immune system/skin barrier meant we were able to wean him off cyclosporine.. We were fortunate that we did not experience issues with incontinence while on the med.

[Bobishisname]

Thank you everyone for your input, it's great to read up on some personal experiences. Does anyone know if the drug trial I have read about is still open?

Well I reduced his prednisone by half yesterday down to 2.5mg and I did notice him scratching on the odd occassion. But by no means at his normal rate.

I was thinking of changing his antihistamine. I know they work differently on every dog, but does anything recommend one that seems to work more often on dogs than others?

Also, does anyone know how I can contact a member on here? I would love to talk more to stormie as from what I have read on old posts they seem to have some experience with cortisone.

[Boronia]

Thank you everyone for your input, it's great to read up on some personal experiences. Does anyone know if the drug trial I have read about is still open?

Well I reduced his prednisone by half yesterday down to 2.5mg and I did notice him scratching on the odd occassion. But by no means at his normal rate.

I was thinking of changing his antihistamine. I know they work differently on every dog, but does anything recommend one that seems to work more often on dogs than others?

Also, does anyone know how I can contact a member on here? I would love to talk more to stormie as from what I have read on old posts they seem to have some experience with cortisone.

Bobishisname, try here---> http://www.dolforums.com.au/user/16998-stormie/

[Bobishisname]

Thank you Boronia :)

[Barbara B]

Hi,

I have an itchy dog and we've tried all the avenues you have. At the moment she is fine and this is our regime:

Fish and rice based dry food which we moisten slightly.

Sardines in springwater occasionally.

Megaderm (Omega 3 + 6) but not every day.

Prednil tablets - but only two each time she starts to scratch again - not as a course.

Getting rid of capeweed in the lawns the dogs use.

Best of luck - I know how frustrating it can be.

Barbara B

[booge]

My Boxer has been scratching with atopic dermatitis most of his life and he's been on pred on and off most of his life. I've tried diets, food elimination, every magic product, natural therapy, shampoo, supplement i can find. Just accept that your dog may just need pred. I've been so frustrated with different vets and specialists not fixing anything. My dog is almost 7 now, so much happier when he's not scratching and chewing himself raw and having fur drop out. He pretty much needs pred to be normal. You may feel like your drugging him (as i do) but he's so much more content, as I am too.

[Danois]

Stormie is around from time to time. Her Dane is an allergic Dane and given her background and experience, she is very knowledgeable in the topic of itchy dogs and what works/ doesn't work. I will alert her to this thread.

I use cortisone/ pred from time to time on my current Dane if he is itchy/ red.

I used it longer term on my last Dane as he had an immune mediated issue - at low doses the side effects can be minimal. It is really important to follow the vets advice to the letter re tapering doses though. I don't think it's an 'evil' drug - it has it's place and allows a dog not to suffer and that's the important thing.

[sas]

My boy lived on 20mg of Cortisone every 2nd day and he was approx 55 kilos. It wasn't enough to stop the symptoms but most of the time it took enough of the edge off to have some quality of life but he had many flare ups that we had to manage and life was challenging sometimes.

When dealing with Cortisone the challenge is to give a dose that isn't high enough to mess with them too much and that's where your Vet helps you out.

We did do blood allergen testing and desenstising injections and that was around $500 all up - we didn't do intra dermal as we could not get the dog off cortisone for the witholding period.

Different people have different experiences with other lotions and potions, my only advice is don't go wasting your money on miracle cures, we tried hundreds and all they did was empty the bank account.

[sas]

It might be worthwhile talking to your vet about cyclosporin(Atopica). It's pricier than pred but worked well for our atopic dog and I was told it doesn't have significant long term side effects. I also increased our dog's intake of omega oils which I think helped as well.

If the OP can't afford $1,000 for testing then there is no way they can afford Atopica sadly (I'm assuming the dog is not a tiny dog for some reason). Also Atopica does have side effects.

Edited November 24, 2012 by sas

[trinabean]

Hi Bobishisname, I have a dog with confirmed atopic dermatitis. We have had the skin prick and blood tests to diagnose exactly what he is reacting to, the list is extensive (nine different common grass pollens, some tree pollens, mozzies, flies, dust mites, storage mites). He is undergoing desensitization therapy with a dermatologist (so a customized vaccine has been made to desensitize him to his worst allergens). It is expensive unfortunately and I feel for you. It's awful to watch your dog scratching and chewing themselves raw.

So bearing in mind that my dog is allergic to specific things in the outdoor and indoor environment, these are some of the other things the dermatologist has us doing:

1. Wipe down dog with a damp cloth after walks

2. Antihistamines given twice daily, 'Hydroxyzine'

3. 'Cortavance' hydrocortisone spray to affected areas every 2nd day

4. Weekly bath using QV wash (human product available at chemists).

5. Once a day spray itchy/dry skin with a solution of water and QV bath oil.

6. Increase fish oil in the diet, if tolerated. Do it gradually and under vet guidance. My 28kg dog has 6 fish oil capsules plus 1 evening primrose oil capsule per day.

7. Apply one pipette of 'Dermoscent essential 6' spot-on once a week.

8. This part relates to my dogs' reaction to dust mites, so may not be relevant to you?: Wash dog bedding weekly in hot water and wool mix +eucalptus oil. Mop flooring with hot water and eucalyptus oil.

Also, if my dog were eating dry food, I would be looking at either freezing it or adding some hot water to kill storage mites. Someone more knowledgable could probably clarify which is most effective at killing storage mites.

So I'm not sure if my experience or any of that essay is of any help, but I wish you the best of luck with getting your dog more comfortable. :)

[stormie]

Yep, my Dane has Atopy - quite bad unfortunately too.

We couldn't do the skin prick tests as he was too bad to go without any medication for the 12week with-holding period required. Instead, we did two different blood tests, the SPOT test and the Heska ALLERCEPT test. We then did desensitising injections which unfortunately didn't work for us. He has a bit of a hard time with them and came out in hives so his doses had to be further diluted.

We use cortisone (pred) but I use one called Niralone, which is a combination of cortisone with an antihistamine, which helps to keep the cortisone amounts down to a minimum. My boy is about 60kg and I find myself giving him 10mg of pred at a time - usually every few days - when he gets bad.

I also use Cyclosporine (Atopica) but I get it from a compounding pharmacy for cost price (work in a clinic) but it still costs a bomb and probably doesn't work as well as the true Atopica does. So the combination of the two mean the cortisone is kept to a minimum. If you could possibly afford to try Atopica, it's worth it. Some dogs can get by on as low as two doses/week, though some, like mine, need it daily.

In saying this though, he still scratches. But its not severe itching.

Yes, cortisone can have long term side effects. But this is not a given and many dogs live long, normal lives on it. Lots of people use is as it's cost effective and provides relief. A lot of people critisize it's use but in many cases it really is the only thing that will stop the itching and IMO, quality of life is more important than quantity :) I'd rather give my boy a potentially shorter life thats comfortable rather than a longer one of constant suffering.

As you can see from my boy, if managed properly, you can get by on really low doses. Whilst it is used as an immune suppressant, that only really occurs when you get up to doses from 1mg/kg and up. If you can get by on 0.5mg/kg or less every second day, this is better. Also, a slightly higher dose every second day is better than a lesser dose every day.

The side effects of Cyclosporine are much more benign. It is an immune suppressant but after 2+ years of use, Orbit's not been sick from anything. His gums get a little swollen and he's got a few more warts here and there (immune suppression) but that's about it.

Other things you can try to give some relief are things like Alpha Keri Oil which help to replenish the skins moisture and help create a bit of a skin barrier to allergens. I apply it and leave it for a few hours then gently wash it off. I also avoid any shampoos which can be drying, such as Malaseb and use as gentle ones as possible. REgularly bathing helps us too.

We can't use fish oils as unfortunately Orbee's allergic to fish. But there are some omega oils like Megaderm which I don't believe use animal oils, so can be ok to try.

We also tried the Essential 6 Spot On to try improve his skin barrier but unfortunately he reacted to all the plant oils/extracts used and broke out in terrible hives.

Hope this helps. Feel free to PM me with any more questions you have about how we manage :)

Edited November 24, 2012 by stormie