Rescue Dogs - Clues To Their Lives Before You.

[Loving my Oldies]

That is a bit harsh Pav Lova. It is human nature to wonder about the past. Why do countless thousands all around the world try to trace their ancestors?

Just because someone is thinking about a dog's past doesn't mean they aren't addressing the current behaviours :)

[Greytmate]

That is a bit harsh Pav Lova. It is human nature to wonder about the past. Why do countless thousands all around the world try to trace their ancestors?

Just because someone is thinking about a dog's past doesn't mean they aren't addressing the current behaviours :)

Pavlov isn't being harsh, she asked a question. Nobody here has been able to explain why using imagination to invent a past could be helpful to the dog. It's natural for us to be curious as to why people think it is helpful and ask why they think that.

Some people are curious about the past and will do a lot of research into documented family history. That's fine. But conjuring up an imaginary past life, just for fun, isnt curiosity. It's fantasy- play. Usually a story where the dog was the victim of evil treatment and the current owner is the saviour. The story tells you nothing about the dog and everything about how the new owner sees themself.

People are free to imagine any story they like but posting the story online invites people to question this type of thinking.

[sausy.dog]

Jeepers if our dachie went into rescue I hate to think about the impression she might give. She carries on everytime she sees another dog even though she has never had a negative experience, she thinks the vacuum cleaner is evil (regardless that she has never been beaten with it)and when we are out walking if the texture of the path changes she freaks out and tries to avoid or jump over it (ie council have inserted some decking over a tree root for a couple of metres and she also hates metal covers). Our other dachie had a real issue with small children - anything smaller than our youngest child was a cause for great suspicion and she never had any reason for this but if she had ever been adopted it would have been very easy to presume that she had had a bad experience with children.

I can understand speculating but I am also convinced in a lot of cases that speculation is anywhere near close to the mark. It is human nature to want to understand and I agree that it feeds our need to give a 'better' life to a dog than the people in its past did and the satisfaction that comes with that.

[CHA]

Genuine question here - If my dog fell to the ground cringing, like she was expecting to be hit or kicked, when my husband walked past her and did that for no-one else, but with time and persistance from us, does not do that any more - is that because she was cringing because of past experiences or because that is her nature? She doesn't do that at all now and is a very confident little bunny, and I honestly cannot see now that she is a cringy type of dog at all, even when she is out of her comfort zone.

To me - I assume that it is because maybe the dad where she lived was one of those people that would kick the dog out of the way?

[Salukifan]

Genuine question here - If my dog fell to the ground cringing, like she was expecting to be hit or kicked, when my husband walked past her and did that for no-one else, but with time and persistance from us, does not do that any more - is that because she was cringing because of past experiences or because that is her nature? She doesn't do that at all now and is a very confident little bunny, and I honestly cannot see now that she is a cringy type of dog at all, even when she is out of her comfort zone.

To me - I assume that it is because maybe the dad where she lived was one of those people that would kick the dog out of the way?

That behaviour could just as easily be interpreted as submission by a very soft dog and/or lack of socialization at critical times in puppyhood. . She might never have been hit or kicked. My dog used to pee herself when patted and she's never had a hand lifted to her.

Just like a dog that "hates dogs" could be innately dog aggressive due to its genes, this was exacerbated by lack of socialization and this became more apparent on maturity.

Analysing such behaviour needs to focus more on rehabilitation than origin. Perhaps the thought of an abusive past makes challenging behaviour easier to tolerate but it rarely helps the dog move forward.

Edited November 30, 2012 by Haredown Whippets

[tarope]

If I was buying a second hand car,I would like to know about the car's history. As a dog is more than a second hand car, it's only natural to wonder what this poor dog's life was before. Maybe I'm a little bit more compassionate about dogs than some here on DOL.

[Greytmate]

If I was buying a second hand car,I would like to know about the car's history. As a dog is more than a second hand car, it's only natural to wonder what this poor dog's life was before. Maybe I'm a little bit more compassionate about dogs than some here on DOL.

That's a very poor analogy. You are unlikely to be told if a car has had problems, but if you are concerned you would buy a new car or at least a car with a documented service history. The same opportunity is there with dogs. You can buy a new pup or you can buy an older dog that has a documented history. But if you do buy an older car or an older dog you have to accept that things may have happened that you will never know about. You are buying exactly what you see in front of you, and there are heaps of good older cars and good older dogs to choose from.

When buying a car or a dog, I would give the same advice. Buy the best one you can afford, of a type that suits your lifestyle, from an ethical dealer. Cars or dogs that have obvious damage might be unsafe or unrepairable.

But if you go out and buy a wrecked car, because you feel sorry for it, you won't seem compassionate, you will seem like a fool.

[hankdog]

Yep, that's me always get the wreck. Oh well I am resigned to my wobbly dining room table, lounge suite with "character" and loopy dog, we're a good match.

[mantis]

Yep, that's me always get the wreck. Oh well I am resigned to my wobbly dining room table, lounge suite with "character" and loopy dog, we're a good match.

Welcome to the club.

[Salukifan]

If I was buying a second hand car,I would like to know about the car's history. As a dog is more than a second hand car, it's only natural to wonder what this poor dog's life was before. Maybe I'm a little bit more compassionate about dogs than some here on DOL.

"I care more than others" Tarope? Interesting assertion but hey, whatever rocks your boat.

From where I sit there's a quite a difference between being compassionate and being speculative.

You don't need to know a dog's background to care about it. I have seen rescue dogs whose owners are so busy feeling sorry for them that they can't get past excuses for behaviour and actually deal with it. Pity is a poor substitute for action, particularly when the behaviour is dangerous.

Shyness, timidity, aggression - all of these could have a range of origins and frankly WHY a dog behaves like it does isn't necessarily key to how to fix it.

As a well known behaviourist remarked at a conference I was at some time ago said "if we put as much energy dealing with behavioural issues as we do into labelling their causes, there would be a lot less problem dogs in the world". I can think of a raft of reasons why a dog might be aggressive but frankly the technique for managing that aggression isnt' going to vary that much.

I'll give you an example. Rover growls like mad and will snap if a treat or bone is given and a dog or a person gets too close. It's clear Rover WILL bite if pushed so the owner backs off. "Poor Rover" says the owner, "he's a rescue dog and I bet he was starved or had to fight for his food with other dogs". "THATs why its so precious to him". Nope, Rover is a good old fashioned resource guarder. Would have been born that way and perhaps its been exacerbated by interference with food. But starved? I recall Sue Sternberg commenting that she saw far worse cases of resource guarding in well fed surrenders than in starvation cases.

And in the end the treatment is the same. Don't make excuses for it. Manage it. And wonder why the hell a severe resource guarder was rehomed in the first place.

In my experience most challenging dog behaviours are genetic or caused by what the dog didnt' get (socialised, attention, training).

The resource guarder I know that put 20 stitches in its owners arm never missed a meal in its life.

So my view? Speculate about your dog's past to your heart's content but acknowledge that there are many causes for some behaviours and that abuse can be but one of them. Ignorance and indifference are far more common. They, along side with poor temperament are probably far more likely than abuse to be why a dog has issues.

I think it's best to keep an open mind and remember that dogs don't dwell in the past. It's their futures we can make happy and that's what we should focus on.

Edited November 30, 2012 by Haredown Whippets

[BJean]

OT

The resource guarder I know that put 20 stitches in its owners arm never missed a meal in its life.

So my view? Speculate about your dog's past to your heart's content but acknowledge that there are many causes for some behaviours and that abuse can be but one of them. Ignorance and indifference are far more common.

Keep an open mind and remember that dogs don't dwell in the past. It's their futures we can make happy and that's what we should focus on.

ATM I'm tending to think intense resource guarding over food is genetic.

Just watching a few generations of dogs and who does what and who doesn't.

The correlation seems to be 'did the parent also resource guard',

and not much else.

Edited November 30, 2012 by lilli

[Salukifan]

ATM I'm tending to think intense resource guarding over food is genetic.

Just watching a few generations of dogs and who does what and who doesn't.

The correlation seems to be 'did the parent also resource guard',

and not much else.

I agree. It manifests very early in pups and is definitely more common in some breeds than others.

Edited November 30, 2012 by Haredown Whippets

[tdierikx]

If I was buying a second hand car,I would like to know about the car's history. As a dog is more than a second hand car, it's only natural to wonder what this poor dog's life was before. Maybe I'm a little bit more compassionate about dogs than some here on DOL.

"I care more than others" Tarope? Interesting assertion but hey, whatever rocks your boat.

From where I sit there's a quite a difference between being compassionate and being speculative.

You don't need to know a dog's background to care about it. I have seen rescue dogs whose owners are so busy feeling sorry for them that they can't get past excuses for behaviour and actually deal with it. Pity is a poor substitute for action, particularly when the behaviour is dangerous.

Shyness, timidity, aggression - all of these could have a range of origins and frankly WHY a dog behaves like it does isn't necessarily key to how to fix it.

As a well known behaviourist remarked at a conference I was at some time ago said "if we put as much energy dealing with behavioural issues as we do into labelling their causes, there would be a lot less problem dogs in the world". I can think of a raft of reasons why a dog might be aggressive but frankly the technique for managing that aggression isnt' going to vary that much.

I'll give you an example. Rover growls like mad and will snap if a treat or bone is given and a dog or a person gets too close. It's clear Rover WILL bite if pushed so the owner backs off. "Poor Rover" says the owner, "he's a rescue dog and I bet he was starved or had to fight for his food with other dogs". "THATs why its so precious to him". Nope, Rover is a good old fashioned resource guarder. Would have been born that way and perhaps its been exacerbated by interference with food. But starved? I recall Sue Sternberg commenting that she saw far worse cases of resource guarding in well fed surrenders than in starvation cases.

And in the end the treatment is the same. Don't make excuses for it. Manage it. And wonder why the hell a severe resource guarder was rehomed in the first place.

In my experience most challenging dog behaviours are genetic or caused by what the dog didnt' get (socialised, attention, training).

The resource guarder I know that put 20 stitches in its owners arm never missed a meal in its life.

So my view? Speculate about your dog's past to your heart's content but acknowledge that there are many causes for some behaviours and that abuse can be but one of them. Ignorance and indifference are far more common. They, along side with poor temperament are probably far more likely than abuse to be why a dog has issues.

I think it's best to keep an open mind and remember that dogs don't dwell in the past. It's their futures we can make happy and that's what we should focus on.

*LIKE*

T.

[tarope]

If I was buying a second hand car,I would like to know about the car's history. As a dog is more than a second hand car, it's only natural to wonder what this poor dog's life was before. Maybe I'm a little bit more compassionate about dogs than some here on DOL.

That's a very poor analogy. You are unlikely to be told if a car has had problems, but if you are concerned you would buy a new car or at least a car with a documented service history. The same opportunity is there with dogs. You can buy a new pup or you can buy an older dog that has a documented history. But if you do buy an older car or an older dog you have to accept that things may have happened that you will never know about. You are buying exactly what you see in front of you, and there are heaps of good older cars and good older dogs to choose from.

When buying a car or a dog, I would give the same advice. Buy the best one you can afford, of a type that suits your lifestyle, from an ethical dealer. Cars or dogs that have obvious damage might be unsafe or unrepairable.

But if you go out and buy a wrecked car, because you feel sorry for it, you won't seem compassionate, you will seem like a fool.

I was using the second hand car as a metaphor, so I don't need a lecture or advice on them. As I said in my post,dogs are more than second hand cars and everyone is entitled to their own opinion on how to repair the damage but it does help IMO to know the cause.

Maybe the person who bought the wrecked car didn't feel sorry for it but wanted it for spare parts, wouldn't be a fool after all. :laugh:

[tdierikx]

Knowing the "cause" for certain reactions is nowhere near as useful as knowing how to identify the triggers to that behaviour... and then working out how to negate them as much as you can.

T.

[Greytmate]

If I was buying a second hand car,I would like to know about the car's history. As a dog is more than a second hand car, it's only natural to wonder what this poor dog's life was before. Maybe I'm a little bit more compassionate about dogs than some here on DOL.

That's a very poor analogy. You are unlikely to be told if a car has had problems, but if you are concerned you would buy a new car or at least a car with a documented service history. The same opportunity is there with dogs. You can buy a new pup or you can buy an older dog that has a documented history. But if you do buy an older car or an older dog you have to accept that things may have happened that you will never know about. You are buying exactly what you see in front of you, and there are heaps of good older cars and good older dogs to choose from.

When buying a car or a dog, I would give the same advice. Buy the best one you can afford, of a type that suits your lifestyle, from an ethical dealer. Cars or dogs that have obvious damage might be unsafe or unrepairable.

But if you go out and buy a wrecked car, because you feel sorry for it, you won't seem compassionate, you will seem like a fool.

As I said in my post,dogs are more than second hand cars and everyone is entitled to their own opinion on how to repair the damage but it does help IMO to know the cause.

No it doesn't help.

Inventing a fantasy tells us about the type of person you are. But it doesn't help the dog.

You are entitled to give your opion and others are entitled to say that it is wrong. I think your attitude is harmful to dogs and your unwillingness to explain your reasons is selfish. Maybe you lack compassion?

[CHA]

In my experience, there are very few people who do not wonder about their "rescue" dogs life before them. Everyone I meet also likes to invent a past life for my dog too.

This does not mean that all of these people will not address the behavioural issues of the dog because it is a "rescue". I believe all of them would do a great job of bringing up the dog to become a well behaving member of their family.

Those of you who are way more experienced in behavioural issues of dogs and who have lots of rescue dogs come through are not interested in their past lives, but are looking to get those dogs in good working order and as well behaving family members. This is fair enough.

The rest of us, with only one dog to work with (or two or three) like to look at the loves of our lives and wonder....

[mita]

We had a little sheltie boy, named Danny. Found wandering lost in awful condition. But with help from Sheltie Club of Q'ld & the UQ Vet Clinic, he was restored to being a truly lovely little dog.

Despite all efforts, no owner could be located & we adopted him.

Everyone found it hard to believe that someone didn't miss this little bloke.

But he had one interesting behaviour....he would watch with great interest young men on motor bikes. No, it wasn't the sound of the bike... or wanting to chase it. When a young man on a motor bike pulled up anywhere nearby at traffic lights, Danny would stand up against the car window & really look searchingly at the young man. It was if he was looking for someone. He didn't do it if the person were older... only young men.

[eyeopener]

ATM I'm tending to think intense resource guarding over food is genetic.

Just watching a few generations of dogs and who does what and who doesn't.

The correlation seems to be 'did the parent also resource guard',

and not much else.

I agree. It manifests very early in pups and is definitely more common in some breeds than others.

I don't believe it always is but it is defiantly a factor. The worst resource guarding I have had to deal with was a pair of adult who came to me that where quite social till the food arrived with the bitch being the bigger danger of the 2. Well I separated them & have worked on their re training separately with the bitch now sharing mince with kittens & being able to have free access when I am home to the entire farm. But the dog who I had actually thought was more the victim although now safe to interact on long lead with small dogs n off lead with the big dogs but would still try & kill his best mate if it was over food. On further research turned out the bitch had developed the issue after the dog reached maturity & that the dogs own dam was highly resource guardy.

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

I've just rehomed two small dogs to new homes and had a couple of insights into their previous owners.

1 was a poodle cross, aged about 5. He was probably crossed with a terrier and showed behaviours from both poodle and terrier. He had two fascinations - 1 was with a ball, he was the best retriever of a ball i've ever come across - if you dropped it on his return he would pick it up and put it back in your hand. "Fetch" and "Find Ballie" were two commands he knew well, that was it. He wasn't housetrained and was matted and dirty with broken teeth.

His second fascination was when you were drinking a cup of tea, he'd want some. So my best guess was he belonged to an older person, i've had a few dogs from older people and they've often been after my tea. He found a wonderful home with 3 adults and their large and friendly rescue girl.

With my other little dog, he's a cruelty case with a very bad skin condition and he'll be on Bondi Vet next year. He recovered enough to go to a special home that doesn't mind if his bald patches grow back or not and have had epxerience of dogs with skin problems before.

The day before I took him to his new home, he was just outside the back door waiting to come in, he didn't move so i went to step over him and he screamed in terror and fell over on his back screaming with his paws waving. I could have cried. It was obvious that someone had probably kicked or stepped on him before. I'd had him for over 2 months and had never seen anything like that from him before although he'd slink under the table if i told my other dogs off for any reason. Poor little guy.