High Liver Enzymes In Dogs

[julesluvscavs]

Hi Everyone :)

Renae is just over 10 now, and has had a few minor concerning symptoms over last few months of things not being right.

Last Sat, we decided she should have a blood test done to check on her.

Today we got the results and her liver enzymes are very elevated. They suggested she have a ultrasound done soon. She is booked in this Thurs.

They mentioned a few things it could be, can't remember atm as i was upset with just hearing about the results.

There were some other levels that were not quite right, but the vet said he wasn't too overly concerned with them at this stage.

She's healthy otherwise, has a good heart for her age, hasn't lost any weight, if anything has put on.

The reason we had her tested was because she has had a few tremors/shakes/trance like states over the last few months, only mildly and they only last a few seconds. If you touch her she stops/comes out of it.

I did mention she has been excessively hungry, which most cavs are always on the look out for food, but hers has been really bad .

She's been lethargic for a while now but then shes a 10 year old Cav. She has her moments of being active.

We won't know what is causing it until her Ultrasound, but am just wondering of anyone's else experiences with high liver enzymes levels in their dogs?

I guess there are few different things that it can be in different dogs, but Im just curious about it..

Edited November 13, 2012 by Jules♥Cavs

[SchnauzerMax]

Hi Everyone :)

Renae is just over 10 now, and has had a few minor concerning symptoms over last few months of things not being right.

Last Sat, we decided she should have a blood test done to check on her.

Today we got the results and her liver enzymes are very elevated. They suggested she have a ultrasound done soon. She is booked in this Thurs.

They mentioned a few things it could be, can't remember atm as i was upset with just hearing about the results.

There were some other levels that were not quite right, but the vet said he wasn't too overly concerned with them at this stage.

She's healthy otherwise, has a good heart for her age, hasn't lost any weight, if anything has put on.

The reason we had her tested was because she has had a few tremors/shakes/trance like states over the last few months, only mildly and they only last a few seconds. If you touch her she stops/comes out of it.

I did mention she has been excessively hungry, which most cavs are always on the look out for food, but hers has been really bad .

She's been lethargic for a while now but then shes a 10 year old Cav. She has her moments of being active.

We won't know what is causing it until her Ultrasound, but am just wondering of anyone's else experiences with high liver enzymes levels in their dogs?

I guess there are few different things that it can be in different dogs, but Im just curious about it..

We have schnauzers (a mini and a standard) and elevated liver enzymes to us means pancreatitis or an infection in or around the liver/pancreas/gall bladder area. One of the liver enzymes that they test for shows how hard the liver is working (it's ALP or ALT I can't remember exactly). If this has been happening over a few months then whatever it is sounds more like a chronic condition rather than an acute condition like pancreatitis. We do watch the amount of fat in their diet just to be safe. Depending on what is wrong, there are supplements that might help.

Fingers crossed for good news

[julesluvscavs]

Thank you for your reply SchnauzerMax :)

I did ask the vet if he suspected it could be pancreatitis, as I have diabetes and have fluctuating liver levels myself from time time.. He did not think thats the problem. We did suspect Cushings a while back and she has been tested for it, and her levels were slightly under normal. I think he said they were still down a bit with this recent blood test, but not of a significant level to be worried about

I hope whatever it is, it can be found and fixed ..

A friend of mine her cavalier suffers with bouts of pancreatitis and has had to cut out most fats in her diet..

Edited November 13, 2012 by Jules♥Cavs

[Ptolomy]

One of my tollers had liver failure and his liver enzymes were through the roof . He wouldn't eat so I knew he was sick and he was also vomiting. He had an ultrasound which showed no abnormality

First lot of bloods were

CK 249 Reference Range 47-228

ALP 979 RR 20-184

ALT 2259 RR 21-142

Cholesterol 17.2 RR 3.3 - 6.9

T.Bilirubin 49 RR 0 - 8

Following first consult - this is what the specialist said..... AND I WILL STrESS THIS IS FOR MY DOG ONLY.........

We still don't know the cause of the hepatopathy, with the most common being toxic, infectious and inflammatory

The options for further investigations as we discussed today are:

1) fine needle aspirate of the liver; mainly rules in or out round cell cancers

2) ultrasound-guided needle core biopsy

3) surgical biopsy

4) follow up ultrasound in ~3 weeks if doing well, earlier if not.

I understand your wishes to try the conservative approach.

In the meantime, his management should be the following:

1) lower protein diet. Preferably the liver diet (or blended with the liver diet as extra vitamins are included in this)

2) metronidazole 200mg tablets: decreased dose to ¾ (three-quarters) of a tablet twice daily

3) added Clavulox at 250mg tablets: 1 twice daily until finished (2 weeks, perhaps longer)

4) Milk thistle; he needs at least 150mg per day

5) SAMe at ~ 425mg per day. I don't like the bioglan product as it is too hard to work out what is in it. Try and get a hold of the Bio-organics Forte product… or there is a veterinary formulation but hard to get a hold of.

It took him 6 months to fully recover and we are now 18+ months down the track......

Edited November 13, 2012 by Ptolomy

[julesluvscavs]

Thank you Ptolomy for you helpful reply. It does all seem full on and confusing to me atm. I didn't think to ask vet what her level numbers are.

Milk thistle does seem to come up a fair bit when i was googling about it, I have never heard of it before. Where do you get it from ?

I will wait and see if the Ultasound shows up anything? if not then we will go from there i guess, I am very reluctant at her age to put her through any invasive tests.

Glad to hear your toller is doing much better now :)

[JulesP]

On the flip side Amber's readings weren't that high. Her ALT was 268. Even her bile test wasn't super high. I already had an accidental ultrasound at that stage showing a problem though. Accidental because they were actually looking at her heart at the time but the liver was so abnormal that they noticed it.

Really hard to say what is going on with your dog Jules. Dogs with liver conditions tend to not eat though. Was she having the trance/tremors after eating?

[Ptolomy]

Milk Thistle you can get either from the supermarket or a Pharmacy and its dirt cheap - less than $20 for a bottle of 50 or 60 tablets. SAMe Forte you get from a Pharmacy. But do run these past your vet first.

Getting him to eat was the hard part - for 6 weeks he would nibble at something one day and turn his nose up at it at the very next meal. Most of the time I resorted to hand feeding him and if he ate a mouthful then I would celebrate. He lost 3kg. Chicken, often cut up chicken necks was the food he would eat most often and the low protein canned food I purchased - he wouldn't look at. There is currently another toller in NSW who is distantly related to mine going through the same thing

Edited November 13, 2012 by Ptolomy

[julesluvscavs]

On the flip side Amber's readings weren't that high. Her ALT was 268. Even her bile test wasn't super high. I already had an accidental ultrasound at that stage showing a problem though. Accidental because they were actually looking at her heart at the time but the liver was so abnormal that they noticed it.

Really hard to say what is going on with your dog Jules. Dogs with liver conditions tend to not eat though. Was she having the trance/tremors after eating?

Oh ok Jules.

well the only reason I took Renae in to have some blood work was because of her mild shakes and a bit of weird turn she had months ago. We had her tested previously for diabetes and cushings (which the cushings levels were a bit under normal range, as with this recent test as well)

IF anything she wants to eat more, and has no trouble eating what i do give her. She's always scratching the pantry and trying to get our attention to give her more food. this has been going on for months now, which is why they tested for for diabetes and cushings. I have heard it can take a couple years to come out tho,, I have diabetes myself and its took a few years to show itself up properly in tests.

The trance/shakes can happen at any time of the day, but she fine when shes's sleeping which is heaps now .They never last more than a few seconds, and its not constantly all the time, just here and there. I had been thinking it could just be an age relate thing as i have heard 'some' older dogs do get a bit shaky as they are getting older.

It will be interesting to see if the U/S shows anything?

How is Amber now ?

Edited November 13, 2012 by Jules♥Cavs

[julesluvscavs]

Milk Thistle you can get either from the supermarket or a Pharmacy and its dirt cheap - less than $20 for a bottle of 50 or 60 tablets. SAMe Forte you get from a Pharmacy. But do run these past your vet first.

Getting him to eat was the hard part - for 6 weeks he would nibble at something one day and turn his nose up at it at the very next meal. Most of the time I resorted to hand feeding him and if he ate a mouthful then I would celebrate. He lost 3kg. Chicken, often cut up chicken necks was the food he would eat most often and the low protein canned food I purchased - he wouldn't look at. There is currently another toller in NSW who is distantly related to mine going through the same thing

Thank you again Ptolomy :)

I will look for some, but i will see what the U/S brings tomorrow first

See with Renae, shes defiantly not off food, its quite the other way around ! ;-)

Interesting about the other toller in NSW who is distantly related to yours is going through the same thing too..

[Ptolomy]

Can Cavs get Addisons????? Have they done potassium levels?

[julesluvscavs]

Can Cavs get Addisons????? Have they done potassium levels?

I don't know tbh ?? Ive never heard of it in the Cav circles..

I will check if they have tested her potassium levels when we take her in for her U/S tomorrow..

I dont even know what Addison's is, I will google it?

[julesluvscavs]

I just googled the symptoms of it, and none of them really apply to her apart from being on the lethargic side, which at her age is fairly normal now. She's not stiff or sore anywhere that I can tell. The vet did an examination of her as well and said she was fine with movement.. She hasn't been vomiting either..

Edited November 13, 2012 by Jules♥Cavs

[JulesP]

Getting him to eat was the hard part - for 6 weeks he would nibble at something one day and turn his nose up at it at the very next meal. Most of the time I resorted to hand feeding him and if he ate a mouthful then I would celebrate. He lost 3kg. Chicken, often cut up chicken necks was the food he would eat most often and the low protein canned food I purchased - he wouldn't look at. There is currently another toller in NSW who is distantly related to mine going through the same thing

I really recommend Pediasure for dogs that aren't wanting to eat. It is a kids version of Ensure. It really helped get Amber through the stage were she wasn't eating. I got mine from Chemist Warehouse.

[stellnme]

Jules, I lost my old dog 5 weeks ago. She showed very elevated liver enzyme levels on a blood profile which she needed before an eye operation. The vet suspected Cushings Disease and the best way to get a positive diagnosis of this is a Dexamethasone Suppression Test which entails taking blood at regular intervals during the day at the vet clinic. After Cushings was diagnosed, the vet was going to do an ultrasound to determine what tumour it was -pituatory or adrenal, and if anything else, i.e. liver issues were going on. Unfortunately she became very ill before with other issues and we sadly had no choice but to let her go.

She was eating a lot and didn't have the excessive thirst which is a feature, but not all dogs have the same symptoms. A Dexamethasone Suppression test is the best positive identifier of Cushings. My advice would be to talk to your vet and have this test first if he suspects Cushings. Just a point of interest, my dog was a rescue and I had a blood profile done in January which didn't show elevated levels, yet in just 9 months they became very high.

Addisons disease is the opposite of Cushings - humans can get both these diseases as well.

If your dog is diagnosed with Cushings, get in touch with Sheridan - she gave me some excellent advice and information as she deals with it with her own dog. Unfortunately I didn't get the chance to use it with my own dog.

Sending all good vibes for your dog.

[julesluvscavs]

Jules, I lost my old dog 5 weeks ago. She showed very elevated liver enzyme levels on a blood profile which she needed before an eye operation. The vet suspected Cushings Disease and the best way to get a positive diagnosis of this is a Dexamethasone Suppression Test which entails taking blood at regular intervals during the day at the vet clinic. After Cushings was diagnosed, the vet was going to do an ultrasound to determine what tumour it was -pituatory or adrenal, and if anything else, i.e. liver issues were going on. Unfortunately she became very ill before with other issues and we sadly had no choice but to let her go.

She was eating a lot and didn't have the excessive thirst which is a feature, but not all dogs have the same symptoms. A Dexamethasone Suppression test is the best positive identifier of Cushings. My advice would be to talk to your vet and have this test first if he suspects Cushings. Just a point of interest, my dog was a rescue and I had a blood profile done in January which didn't show elevated levels, yet in just 9 months they became very high.

Addisons disease is the opposite of Cushings - humans can get both these diseases as well.

If your dog is diagnosed with Cushings, get in touch with Sheridan - she gave me some excellent advice and information as she deals with it with her own dog. Unfortunately I didn't get the chance to use it with my own dog.

Sending all good vibes for your dog.

Hi Stellnme. firstly I am so sorry to hear about your dog you must be devastated *hugs*

I will bring up about that test you mentioned as Cushings is on the list of what could be wrong, altho I do not want her having to be at the vets for longer than she has to be without me (its a long story, and its a sore point with me)

Renae's last blood test was a few months ago when she had to have surgury on her gums and for the removal of a benign tumour (on her gums)

I will see what the U/S reveals tomorrow. If she is diagnosed with Cushings at any stage, I will get in touch with Sheridan then,

I've been going over things in my head, as you do, and blaming myself about if ive been feeding her the wrong food, treats etc... what is something in them has caused it .. I shouldn't tho as we still don't what is exactly wrong with her.

I have heard of 2 other dogs with similar symptoms with the trance like state/tremors, but both had cancer. Of course im worrying atm.

Once again I am really sorry to hear about the passing of your dog x

Edited November 14, 2012 by Jules♥Cavs

[Sheridan]

Thanks to Stellnme for the kind words.

There are two Cushings tests. With the first, Grumpy came up negative. The eight hour Dexamethasone Suppression Test, he came up positive. Addisons is the opposite of Cushings, not enough cortisol in the body rather than too much. Grumpy gets tremors but this is a result of the medication. He didn't have them beforehand.

Grumpy doesn't do we'll at the vet. He gets, well, grumpy. For the DST test, I stayed at the vet all day with him. They set me up in the back room with Grumpy and I worked from there. Perhaps you could ask to stay as I did.

[JulesP]

Is her mouth ok now Jules? Even something like a tooth infection can put the liver enzymes up.

[julesluvscavs]

Thanks to Stellnme for the kind words.

There are two Cushings tests. With the first, Grumpy came up negative. The eight hour Dexamethasone Suppression Test, he came up positive. Addisons is the opposite of Cushings, not enough cortisol in the body rather than too much. Grumpy gets tremors but this is a result of the medication. He didn't have them beforehand.

Grumpy doesn't do we'll at the vet. He gets, well, grumpy. For the DST test, I stayed at the vet all day with him. They set me up in the back room with Grumpy and I worked from there. Perhaps you could ask to stay as I did.

Thank you Sheridan for your reply :)

If it comes to that I will stay with her, if she needs that other test. I will bring it up with the vet.

Hope Grumpy is doing ok all things considering?

Edited November 14, 2012 by Jules♥Cavs

[julesluvscavs]

Is her mouth ok now Jules? Even something like a tooth infection can put the liver enzymes up.

Yeah he checked her mouth Jules, and He said it was fine, apart from a little bit of plague that has come back on a couple of her teeth

[stellnme]

Thanks, Jules. Good luck for tomorrow and please let us know how Renae is. Please don't blame yourself, whatever it is, with a well-loved and looked after dog like I'm sure yours is, you have done everything you can. Always good to know what you are dealing with, though.