Crating A Puppy

[persephone]

I do hope the pup can hold on for a few hours, and doesn't have to use his crate as a toilet ..so setting himself up for a really sad habit

[Aso]

I like the idea of segregating him in a kitchen or bathroom area? at least he has room to move and you can set up a toilet corner.

Hi Donatella,

I have requested permission to "re-organise" the layout of the kitchen area so I can do this and I'm waiting for a reply. Because it's a "studio" layout, it's a bit tricky. I agree though, it's one of the best inside arrangements if I can get the go ahead.

[Aso]

I do hope the pup can hold on for a few hours, and doesn't have to use his crate as a toilet ..so setting himself up for a really sad habit

Thanks Persephone. I will be monitoring his crate "holding" time for a week and will only leave him in the crate for the duration that he is comfortable with. I will definitely try to ensure that I don't encourage any bad habit :)

[ann21]

I would definitely second looking in getting a playpen or run or sectioning off an area of the house (even the toilet, if it's been puppy proofed) if you are going to be away for 3 hours a time. When I got my pup I lived in a pretty small one bedroom and the playpen I got ($55 from deals direct I think) made all the difference. For one it allowed me to train him to go on newspaper (not ideal I know but it worked for me especially in the first few weeks). Also it allowed him room to play with his toys. My apartment was carpeted so I also bought heavy duty tarpe (about $20 for a huge one from DD) to put at the bottom of the playpen.

[ann21]

Also on crate time, I would say my pup was in his playpen overnight (and by overnight i mean like 10:30pm to 4am) for the first few weeks but he still went to toilet on the newspaper before I brought put him out at 4am (don't miss those mornings!) if I were to crate him I don't think I would have expected him to hold for more than an hour.

Edited for spelling.

Edited November 12, 2012 by ann21

[Nekhbet]

You're better off building a section of your backyard as a run with a kennel. This is way too much time in a crate for a puppy at that age. At this stage you're looking at 15-16 hours in a crate a day minimum, and he should be outside pooping, running about, eating dirt and causing havoc. I can tell you you're in for a dog that learns to mess up his crate or develop boredom habits, even a giant crate, which I own, I would never leave a pup in all day. What happens if you're late home from work or can't get back at lunch time? You have a bursting pup in a sectioned crate that now has to either hang on whinging and squealing to be let out or sit in his own poop until you get back.

Dogues need to be outside, they are a mastiff breed that needs to stretch their legs and build that skeletal structure.

If your place needs more work I'm sure your breeder wont have an issue holding him back until it's secure. If dogs can get into your yard, no matter the age of the dog you're in for problems. An adult dogue wont tolerate intruders too well, build a fence or put up electric.

Edited November 12, 2012 by Nekhbet

[Pretty Miss Emma]

I don't really think it's good for any dog to be in a crate for longer than about an hour without being let out to go to the toilet or whatnot, particularly if they are going to be crated overnight. That's just what I think, but I also only use my crates at trials, shows, work, training, etc. When I brought my pup home I had his crate (which was his bedroom) attached to a greyhound sized crate (which acted as his playpen) - this was where his toilet spot was and also his water bowl and toys.

I honestly think it is unreasonable to expect a pup to spend all day and all night in a crate. If they do have to be crated during the day and you are prepared to be coming and going from work to facilitate this then I would be suggeting that you would need to come home every hour and let the pup out for a good 15 minutes or so each time so that he can play, toilet, drink, etc. Also agree with other that you definitely don't want him forced in to toileting in his crate (thus why I would suggest letting him out at least every hour).

There are some very sturdy ex-pens, play-pens, fencing panels, etc that could be used to fence off an area in the house. And even outside you could possibly fence off an area beside one of the walls with some sturdy fencing (or even star pickets and some decent mesh, you might even be able to find something on freecycle or something).

I guess another way to think about it in terms of how the pup might feel - how would you like to be locked in your bedroom all day and then all night with only a few hours out in between times? By choice it might be ok, but if it isn't by choice that's when I think there's a possibility of destructive and obsessive behaviours developing. I don't know about how large breeds develop but I do know with my little one if he wasn't able to run around and play when I wasn't there he would have been a nightmare and I would think we would have some physical and behavioural issues also. Oh and my little one was in his playpen/bed for about 4 weeks after I brought him home and then from about 3 months old or so he had run of the yard most days.

I just think, make sure you think long and hard about how this can be managed and is it in the best interests of the developing puppy, what sort of options do you really have if you start to get creative and can you really facilitate the coming and going with work if you are going to go ahead with daytime crating (because there is a real possibility that you may need to come home every hour, pups learn their toilet training at different rates).

[Aphelion]

I was happy for my giant pup to be in his crate in my bedroom all night. For the first week or so he needed one toilet break at about 2am. During the day I think there were times when he could wait an hour or two at 8 weeks without needing a toilet break, but it was safer to take him outside more often than that. If he had to be on his own during the day, then he was left in a puppy pen joined to a crate. Even that is not much space for a giant breed. At 8 weeks a giant breed already takes up most of the space in the largest sized crates. He does have a divider in in this picture, but not much was sectioned off and he barely needed that at all to be honest.

And it only takes a couple of weeks before they fill up most of a normal sized puppy pen too. I used waterproof lining not because this was somewhere for him to toilet in but because however his water was secured, it ended up tipped everywhere.

He also never plays or eats food from a Kong while I'm away, no matter how hungry he is. He doesn't appear that stressed, but he just very quietly lies down the whole time I'm away. So I tend to think the more safe space you can provide, the better. They need as much mental stimulation as possible, and it's already a huge shock for them to suddenly be without mother and litter-mates who they are used to spending all their time with.

A crate is too small for that length of time in those early weeks for sure. When they're quiet and not drinking all night because they are asleep, the giant breeds can do quite well, but at that age they can't hold on for anywhere near that length and crating for that long would be extremely unfair. Indoors for toilet training with a giant breed would be quite hard too. My boy almost never made a mistake inside, but he was unable to hold on for the entire 2 hour puppy class we went to, and he'd take himself off to the most tucked away corner...but especially compared to the little puppies...a lot of mopping was required for just one accident on lino!

Edited November 12, 2012 by Aphelion

[Pretty Miss Emma]

Aphelion - he is way TOO cute!!!!!!! Mind you, for me at that age he is already well and truely big enough!!! I'm definitely a medium breed girl!

[persephone]

There are some interesting things in the classies if you are looking for dog runs :)

LINK

LINK

[lilyandjazz]

Congrats on your new pup but I think you definately need an outside run area for a giant size breed, a crate is just not going to cut it and you would be surprised how much wee and poo a big dog can do.

I know when i have a pup it is out to the tiolet nearly ever hour for the first while and pups can't hold and nothing worse then coming home to that every day, it will get very old very soon.

Hopefully a compromise of the kitchen or bathroom can be achieved.

Not trying to get you down with all your puppy joy but you did ask for advice and the advice you have received is true and everyone is just trying to help you.

Good luck

[Red Fox]

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Pet-Dog-Chicken-Pup-Cat-Enclosure-Run-Cage-Kennel-Yard-/280663139743?pt=AU_Pet_Supplies&hash=item4158d3a59f&_uhb=1#ht_5183wt_1271

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/LARGE-DOG-ENCLOSURE-DOG-RUN-OR-CHOOK-CAGE-3m-x-3m-/360426039204?pt=AU_Pet_Supplies&hash=item53eb10e7a4&_uhb=1#ht_4999wt_1303

http://shop.vebopet.com.au/store/petsafe-large-dog-chain-link-outdoor-dog-kennel-run.html

You'd be better off with something like the above. All portable and secure - put it in the shade, add a kennel and the pup will be fine. Dog runs are always handy regardless of your fencing.

[persephone]

slightly OT ..but I love the look of these.. wish I had some money! :)

[Guest Arcane]

I think this amount of confinement to a crate will be problematic for several reasons:

* Your pup will almost certainly have to toilet in the crate if confined for that amount of time. That will make toilet training very very difficult.

* Confining a pup so closely, especially a pup of this size, will have a very negative impact on his muscle development.

I think you'd be far better off investing in a decent dog run with shade and a well insulated kennel and starting him in the back yard from Day 1. This is going to be a big dog. Confining him inside is not in his best interests.

Hi Haredown Whippets,

I am taking a week off to get him used to this arrangement and supervise his crate traning closely. I am only 15 mins up the road so will work with the amount of time slowly. I will have a camera on him as well to help with this assessment and will work out more frequent toilet breaks to start off with.

We have a tiered backyard and crating him when he's not supervised will be better for him than anything else. I don't want him jumping around anything. He has a full size XXXL crate that will be partitioned for crate training and he will definitely have enough room to sit, stand, lie down and stretch in any way he likes :) .

He will not be confined inside at all times, he just won't be left outside to his own devices. I can't wait for the little man to get here!

Why even ask the question when you clearly are going to do it anyway?

Personally, I think it's abhorrent and dont see the point of getting the pup if it's going to be crated for so many hours. Sort out your yard FIRST, then get a dog.

I concur.

Especially a giant breed that despite being as cute as they come will grow like a weed and be the cutest big slobbery hairy wrecking ball in no time at all. Just don't do it to the dog. He will outgrow & out perform any crate or play pen in a few short weeks. A very sturdy secure run or yard with free access to fresh air, sunlight, toilet, play, stretch, stimulation etc is the very least a dog like this deserves.

[Leema]

I have crated puppies successfully for 'all day' on occasions. I'm normally home and work from home, but occasionally, the dogs unfortunately get a day where they're crated for most of it. Sometimes these days do occur when I have a young puppy. I don't have toileting accidents in crates - puppies begin to learn about crates from 4 weeks old and never mess in them. I don't think I've ever had a dog or puppy toilet in a crate when I'm not home.

That being said, I wouldn't like to crate my puppies all day every day. It does inhibit their movement and so also inhibits their muscle development.

As others have suggested, a puppy pen would probably be your best bet. When I have puppies, I use my dining room and move all the stuff out of it (which makes the other rooms of the house a bit messy for a while) and use a puppy pen to keep the puppies in the dining room. I set it up with a crate at one end, and a toileting area at the other.

You can read more about how I set up a puppy pen here: http://leemakennels.com/blog/puppies/long-term-confinement-area-for-puppies/

[Dame Aussie]

I think this amount of confinement to a crate will be problematic for several reasons:

* Your pup will almost certainly have to toilet in the crate if confined for that amount of time. That will make toilet training very very difficult.

* Confining a pup so closely, especially a pup of this size, will have a very negative impact on his muscle development.

I think you'd be far better off investing in a decent dog run with shade and a well insulated kennel and starting him in the back yard from Day 1. This is going to be a big dog. Confining him inside is not in his best interests.

Hi Haredown Whippets,

I am taking a week off to get him used to this arrangement and supervise his crate traning closely. I am only 15 mins up the road so will work with the amount of time slowly. I will have a camera on him as well to help with this assessment and will work out more frequent toilet breaks to start off with.

We have a tiered backyard and crating him when he's not supervised will be better for him than anything else. I don't want him jumping around anything. He has a full size XXXL crate that will be partitioned for crate training and he will definitely have enough room to sit, stand, lie down and stretch in any way he likes :) .

He will not be confined inside at all times, he just won't be left outside to his own devices. I can't wait for the little man to get here!

Why even ask the question when you clearly are going to do it anyway?

Personally, I think it's abhorrent and dont see the point of getting the pup if it's going to be crated for so many hours. Sort out your yard FIRST, then get a dog.

Have to agree. I don't think it's fair at all to ask a puppy to hold onto its bladder for 4.5 hours. The whole crating for the majority of the day/all day is so messed up IMO.

Edited November 12, 2012 by Aussie3

[SunnyCoastCav]

I have my little Cav pup in a playpen for when I have to leave in and to sleep,, but I may introduce a crate when he is older so he can sleep next to me or when I have to take him places.

The crate should really be used only for the smallest amount of time possible or overnight for sleeping (and personally I would wait until the pup doesn't need to go toilet all the time!).

And I hate to say it, but why get such a large breed in a small unit and yard? You can love a dog breed but if its not practical, the dog has to come first. I have a house with only 2 people and a reasonable backyard and I worried my little Cav wouldnt have enough room :p.

Edited November 13, 2012 by SunnyCoastCav

[Guest Labradork]

This is Poppy (my 5 month old Lab) in her crate. It's an XL size from Vebo Pet. She sleeps in here at night and likes to come back in here after breakfast for a snooze.

She is only taking up half of the room in her crate now but she is going to double in size. I think she is going to be a big girl :)

ETA

I have just added a better/clearer photo where you can actually see her face!

Edited January 27, 2013 by Maeby Fünke

[Aso]

I like the idea of segregating him in a kitchen or bathroom area? at least he has room to move and you can set up a toilet corner.

Have you any idea how much wee and poo a giant breed pup can produce - it would stink like a latrine in no time.

:laugh:

I'm not even thinking size here oops!

Surely that's what a crate inside a house will smell like after a few hours too no doubt.

The kitchen area is the only place where I can physically set a run up that will be attached to the crate. As mentioned before I will be going home for breaks more often now, about every 2-3 hour breaks. Pup will be fed a raw meaty diet which doesn't produce as much poop thank goodness. I looked back at my previous boy's journal and he was able to hold it inside the house for 4 hours min voluntarily when housetraining at about 9.5 weeks of age. This is where I was basing my timing from, the crating for that duration is the "new" bit which is what I'm working on.

I'm sorry if I didn't make it clear but this is a temporary arrangement for a max of 8 weeks from when the pup arrives. We have had 2 houses fall through in the negotiating stage and are in the continuous process of looking and braving open houses. We were already looking for a house before we had the opportunity of getting a puppy. My puppy will eventually be outdoors as my previous dog was when I'm not home but not yet. We have dog proofed the yard as much as we can from our side but we are still getting strays in the yard. My housemate and I have spoken to our neighbours about it but I think it has fallen on deaf ears.

Thank you for your practical advise and I am doing my best to apply what is within my control and what is best for the temporary situation and the pup.

[minimax]

The kitchen area is the only place where I can physically set a run up that will be attached to the crate. As mentioned before I will be going home for breaks more often now, about every 2-3 hour breaks. Pup will be fed a raw meaty diet which doesn't produce as much poop thank goodness. I looked back at my previous boy's journal and he was able to hold it inside the house for 4 hours min voluntarily when housetraining at about 9.5 weeks of age. This is where I was basing my timing from, the crating for that duration is the "new" bit which is what I'm working on.

I'm sorry if I didn't make it clear but this is a temporary arrangement for a max of 8 weeks from when the pup arrives. We have had 2 houses fall through in the negotiating stage and are in the continuous process of looking and braving open houses. We were already looking for a house before we had the opportunity of getting a puppy. My puppy will eventually be outdoors as my previous dog was when I'm not home but not yet. We have dog proofed the yard as much as we can from our side but we are still getting strays in the yard. My housemate and I have spoken to our neighbours about it but I think it has fallen on deaf ears.

Thank you for your practical advise and I am doing my best to apply what is within my control and what is best for the temporary situation and the pup.

A dogue on a raw diet is still going to produce a shitload of poop, don't kid yourself (pun intended) :laugh:

Can you take the pup to work with you, even for a few hours a day? I did that with my new pup, rather that leave her home alone, and it worked out well.

Try not to imagine this pup is going to be the same as your last pup, even dog is different, and just because one dog could hold on for a certain amount of time, doesn't mean another one can.

Edited November 13, 2012 by minimax