Aso Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Hello Dolers, We'll be picking up our puppy in 3 and a bit weeks and at the moment I'm in a good size granny flat with a good size backyard. The yard is not secured enough for a 9 week old puppy and until he's bigger and can be trusted to behave in the yard, I would like to keep him inside his crate when unsupervised. My work is about 15 mins from home at the most, door to door, and I will be checking in on him at lunch time to break up his day during the week. Is this too long for a puppy to be kept in his crate? This means that when I'm at work he will be in the crate from 8:30 to 12:15, 30 mins break, 1pm to 5:30pm. I am taking time off to slowly train him up to this longevity in the crate and I'm hoping that he will sleep most of the time. Eventually, with enough house training, he will have free reign of my flat. Any comments and ideas will be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance :) . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I think this amount of confinement to a crate will be problematic for several reasons: * Your pup will almost certainly have to toilet in the crate if confined for that amount of time. That will make toilet training very very difficult. * Confining a pup so closely, especially a pup of this size, will have a very negative impact on his muscle development. I think you'd be far better off investing in a decent dog run with shade and a well insulated kennel and starting him in the back yard from Day 1. This is going to be a big dog. Confining him inside is not in his best interests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest donatella Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Or even a play pen or some sort is bigger then a crate, gives them more room to play, chew and toilet and doesn't have them confined in such a small area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 That does seem a long time Housetraining , ideally, needs a pup to be taken to a toilet spot every 1/2 hour or so ... Puppies need to run and play and stretch and explore.... They need exercise to help grow a good brain, and also to form muscles and joints properly. My guess is that pup will also be crated at night? That certainly is a long time in a small space. I second erecting a good solid dog run/kennel now ......and then puppy can be inside with you ..or outside in his own place ..where he will be safe and secure ..and have some room to move :) If you are renting ..there are lots of dog runs which are portable . until he's bigger and can be trusted to behave in the yard, if fences are not secure ...it is not a dog's responsibility to 'behave' They do not know . It is our responsibility to make sure our pups/dogs have safe room to move, according to their size/development ...just as it is our responsibiilty to ensure that we make a yard/house/enclosure as safe and as attractive as we can from a PUP's point of view :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florise Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Thats far too long and will be a miserable life for a pup. Agree with a big external run, with appropriate shelter or secure the yard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aso Posted November 12, 2012 Author Share Posted November 12, 2012 I think this amount of confinement to a crate will be problematic for several reasons: * Your pup will almost certainly have to toilet in the crate if confined for that amount of time. That will make toilet training very very difficult. * Confining a pup so closely, especially a pup of this size, will have a very negative impact on his muscle development. I think you'd be far better off investing in a decent dog run with shade and a well insulated kennel and starting him in the back yard from Day 1. This is going to be a big dog. Confining him inside is not in his best interests. Hi Haredown Whippets, I am taking a week off to get him used to this arrangement and supervise his crate traning closely. I am only 15 mins up the road so will work with the amount of time slowly. I will have a camera on him as well to help with this assessment and will work out more frequent toilet breaks to start off with. We have a tiered backyard and crating him when he's not supervised will be better for him than anything else. I don't want him jumping around anything. He has a full size XXXL crate that will be partitioned for crate training and he will definitely have enough room to sit, stand, lie down and stretch in any way he likes :) . He will not be confined inside at all times, he just won't be left outside to his own devices. I can't wait for the little man to get here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 If he has to be inside, get a sturdy puppy pen and attach it to the full size crate to give him room to move around. Put his bed at the back of the crate a toilet area of artificial turf on paper at the far end of the puppy pen, in case he has to toilet when you are out. Expecting him to hold on in a small crate area for that long at that age is unrealistic and once he toilets in the crate itself you will have a real problem undoing the problem you have caused. You can also leave a heavy water bowl in the pen as well as some chew safe chew toys. Also consider the future as you may not be able to give him the unsupervised run of the flat for a year or even a couple of years, depending how inclined he is to chew things up. Are you going to crate him inside all day for that long? An outdoor secured run would be a better solution from the start if possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aso Posted November 12, 2012 Author Share Posted November 12, 2012 That does seem a long time Housetraining , ideally, needs a pup to be taken to a toilet spot every 1/2 hour or so ... Puppies need to run and play and stretch and explore.... They need exercise to help grow a good brain, and also to form muscles and joints properly. My guess is that pup will also be crated at night? That certainly is a long time in a small space. I second erecting a good solid dog run/kennel now ......and then puppy can be inside with you ..or outside in his own place ..where he will be safe and secure ..and have some room to move :) If you are renting ..there are lots of dog runs which are portable . until he's bigger and can be trusted to behave in the yard, if fences are not secure ...it is not a dog's responsibility to 'behave' They do not know . It is our responsibility to make sure our pups/dogs have safe room to move, according to their size/development ...just as it is our responsibiilty to ensure that we make a yard/house/enclosure as safe and as attractive as we can from a PUP's point of view :) Hi Persephone, I realise what you're saying, I will not be locking him in the crate for any period of time that I don't think he can hold. I have taken time off work to gauge this time. I will however check on him more frequently just in case. He will have all sorts of toys to occupy him for this period if he's not sleeping. I will also leave either the tv or radio on so that it's not too quiet for him. As for playing & exploring, he will have a lot of time for that. He will have at least 3 hours with me before work and from the time I get home until bed time. He will get constructive play time and socialising between these times during the week and all weekends. Unfortunately we cannot secure the fences any more since it's a tiered yard and our neighbours dogs have easy access over the fence where it's tiered and I suspect vice versa. I'm not comfortable leaving him out in the yard, even with an enclosed run, because of this. The portable enclosed runs I've seen won't contain a giant pup who really wants to get out. Yes, he will be crated at night too for bedtime. I expect that he will go into his crate volountarily anyway once he gets used to it. Should I not crate him at night time too? Bedtime should be around 10-5am with a break until he can hold it all night. Crating him while unsupervised is the best way I can think of to protect him. I have nightmares of him jumping off one of the tiers in the backyard My boyfriend and I have started to look for a more suitable abode since hearing that we are getting this little man. Oh pups, he's not even here yet and he's dictating my life already! Wouldn't have it any other way though :D . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra777 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Have another look for portable enclosed runs - they certainly are available in a strength to confine a pup that wants to get out! You would need a kennel and run not a "playpen" so maybe do a different search :) I would not leave a baby puppy of ANY breed in a crate for this length of time - a playpen with attached crate yes.... Is there an area in your flat that can be partioned off - bathroom? kitchen? so he has more room. Definitely agree crating for this length of time would be physically bad for him, no matter how long you 'build up to it'. Good luck finding a more dog friendly place to live! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 that's is way too long to crate IMO. You need to find a way to give him more room no matter how difficult it is. That's your job as a responsible dog owner. Does the breeder know and approve of your plans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I think this amount of confinement to a crate will be problematic for several reasons: * Your pup will almost certainly have to toilet in the crate if confined for that amount of time. That will make toilet training very very difficult. * Confining a pup so closely, especially a pup of this size, will have a very negative impact on his muscle development. I think you'd be far better off investing in a decent dog run with shade and a well insulated kennel and starting him in the back yard from Day 1. This is going to be a big dog. Confining him inside is not in his best interests. Hi Haredown Whippets, I am taking a week off to get him used to this arrangement and supervise his crate traning closely. I am only 15 mins up the road so will work with the amount of time slowly. I will have a camera on him as well to help with this assessment and will work out more frequent toilet breaks to start off with. We have a tiered backyard and crating him when he's not supervised will be better for him than anything else. I don't want him jumping around anything. He has a full size XXXL crate that will be partitioned for crate training and he will definitely have enough room to sit, stand, lie down and stretch in any way he likes :) . He will not be confined inside at all times, he just won't be left outside to his own devices. I can't wait for the little man to get here! Why even ask the question when you clearly are going to do it anyway? Personally, I think it's abhorrent and dont see the point of getting the pup if it's going to be crated for so many hours. Sort out your yard FIRST, then get a dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Sort out your yard FIRST, then get a dog. Must admit, this is what I would do ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I think this amount of confinement to a crate will be problematic for several reasons: * Your pup will almost certainly have to toilet in the crate if confined for that amount of time. That will make toilet training very very difficult. * Confining a pup so closely, especially a pup of this size, will have a very negative impact on his muscle development. I think you'd be far better off investing in a decent dog run with shade and a well insulated kennel and starting him in the back yard from Day 1. This is going to be a big dog. Confining him inside is not in his best interests. Hi Haredown Whippets, I am taking a week off to get him used to this arrangement and supervise his crate traning closely. I am only 15 mins up the road so will work with the amount of time slowly. I will have a camera on him as well to help with this assessment and will work out more frequent toilet breaks to start off with. We have a tiered backyard and crating him when he's not supervised will be better for him than anything else. I don't want him jumping around anything. He has a full size XXXL crate that will be partitioned for crate training and he will definitely have enough room to sit, stand, lie down and stretch in any way he likes :) . He will not be confined inside at all times, he just won't be left outside to his own devices. I can't wait for the little man to get here! I honestly don't know why you bothered to ask the question if you're hell bent on crating a giant breed baby puppy against its best interests. Does the pup's breeder know this is your plan? I cannot see how the pup will get enough exercise for its development based on this. I really can't. Prepare for problems of both the physical and mental variety IMO. It's a dog, not a budgie. That may be blunt but your plan is seriously flawed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aso Posted November 12, 2012 Author Share Posted November 12, 2012 that's is way too long to crate IMO. You need to find a way to give him more room no matter how difficult it is. That's your job as a responsible dog owner. Does the breeder know and approve of your plans? Yes Rebanne, my breeder is aware of my "plans" and she approves as long as I'm comfortable with the situation & details. She trusts me implicitly since she knows that I will do what is best for the pup. As Vader's adopted mum it is my job to ensure he is nurtured and protected. To protect him from himself and his environment firstly then do my darnest to give him the highest quality of doggy life that I can provide. And I will find the balance between what I want to ideally provide and what I can provide, and at this moment, it's going to be crating when I'm not home. Duration will be for no more than 3 hours without a toilet break. He will have all the socialisation and constructive play time he needs outside of these hours including the invevitable zoomies which scares the hell out of me :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Yes Rebanne, my breeder is aware of my "plans" and she approves as long as I'm comfortable with the situation & details. She trusts me implicitly since she knows that I will do what is best for the pup. As Vader's adopted mum it is my job to ensure he is nurtured and protected. To protect him from himself and his environment firstly then do my darnest to give him the highest quality of doggy life that I can provide. And I will find the balance between what I want to ideally provide and what I can provide, and at this moment, it's going to be crating when I'm not home. Duration will be for no more than 3 hours without a toilet break. He will have all the socialisation and constructive play time he needs outside of these hours including the invevitable zoomies which scares the hell out of me :laugh: Your first post: This means that when I'm at work he will be in the crate from 8:30 to 12:15, 30 mins break, 1pm to 5:30pm. Your maths needs some work. My advice was based on your first post. 3 hours is better than 4.5 but you'll still get accidents at that duration. You will need to watch his Vitamin D levels also if he is kept indoors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest donatella Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I like the idea of segregating him in a kitchen or bathroom area? at least he has room to move and you can set up a toilet corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aso Posted November 12, 2012 Author Share Posted November 12, 2012 I think this amount of confinement to a crate will be problematic for several reasons: * Your pup will almost certainly have to toilet in the crate if confined for that amount of time. That will make toilet training very very difficult. * Confining a pup so closely, especially a pup of this size, will have a very negative impact on his muscle development. I think you'd be far better off investing in a decent dog run with shade and a well insulated kennel and starting him in the back yard from Day 1. This is going to be a big dog. Confining him inside is not in his best interests. Hi Haredown Whippets, I am taking a week off to get him used to this arrangement and supervise his crate traning closely. I am only 15 mins up the road so will work with the amount of time slowly. I will have a camera on him as well to help with this assessment and will work out more frequent toilet breaks to start off with. We have a tiered backyard and crating him when he's not supervised will be better for him than anything else. I don't want him jumping around anything. He has a full size XXXL crate that will be partitioned for crate training and he will definitely have enough room to sit, stand, lie down and stretch in any way he likes :) . He will not be confined inside at all times, he just won't be left outside to his own devices. I can't wait for the little man to get here! I honestly don't know why you bothered to ask the question if you're hell bent on crating a giant breed baby puppy against its best interests. Does the pup's breeder know this is your plan? I cannot see how the pup will get enough exercise for its development based on this. I really can't. Prepare for problems of both the physical and mental variety IMO. It's a dog, not a budgie. That may be blunt but your plan is seriously flawed. Yes my breeder is aware of this and how much exercise do you think a giant size pup need for the first few months of his life? Sorry for the confusion, but my question was pertaning to the duration between toilet breaks, not the crating itself. Do you have any experience with giant size pups as to how they develop physical problems? As to the "mental variety" are you privy to the training plan I have for him that will be in full consultation with a very reputable & experienced trainer? Wow you're amazing, who died and made you god? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I like the idea of segregating him in a kitchen or bathroom area? at least he has room to move and you can set up a toilet corner. Have you any idea how much wee and poo a giant breed pup can produce - it would stink like a latrine in no time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest donatella Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 (edited) I like the idea of segregating him in a kitchen or bathroom area? at least he has room to move and you can set up a toilet corner. Have you any idea how much wee and poo a giant breed pup can produce - it would stink like a latrine in no time. :laugh: I'm not even thinking size here oops! Surely that's what a crate inside a house will smell like after a few hours too no doubt. Edited November 12, 2012 by donatella Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 (edited) Yes my breeder is aware of this and how much exercise do you think a giant size pup need for the first few months of his life? Sorry for the confusion, but my question was pertaning to the duration between toilet breaks, not the crating itself. Do you have any experience with giant size pups as to how they develop physical problems? As to the "mental variety" are you privy to the training plan I have for him that will be in full consultation with a very reputable & experienced trainer? Wow you're amazing, who died and made you god? No it wasn't. You gave the duration you proposed and asked if it was OK. I gave you an answer based on experiences of other people who've taken on pups kept in very limited space over the early weeks of their development. The answer was "it's too long". I'm not God. I'm not a mind reader either. If you keep shifting the goal posts of what you propose to do, then expect this kind of response. But feel free to prove me wrong - in fact for your dog's sake, I hope you do. Edited November 12, 2012 by Haredown Whippets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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