Tplo And Staph Infection

[Bigpuppy]

Our beautiful 17 month old Newfie has endured three major rounds of surgery from 6 months old. Firstly her front leg bones were not growing together so major surgery at a cost of $6800, then a TPLO in right hind and recently TPLO in left hind. She wasn't right upon returning home and within 6 days she started panting, not moving much so took her straight back - her wound was spotless. Well........7 days in ICU and finally cultures came back she had contracted STAPH!!!!!! 2000mlgm twice a day of antibiotic - so which kills her this or the staph. Has anyone got any advice or been through this - she is just weight bearing and we are 8 weeks down the track now, also found out when she was admitted to ICU that the top screw had snapped....and no the screw nor plate have caused the infection it has been admitted it was surgically obtained......for that pleasure it cost us $5500. Both TPLO surgeries cost us $11000 together and have since found out that this particular surgeon is NOT the only one able to perform the procedure in Melbourne so we are feeling horrendous that our pup has gone through all this and ended up with Staph. Thanks

[zeebie]

Bad news for you guys with all this leg and joint problems did you consider looking at it being heriditary?

****Elbow Dysplasia—This, as with hip dysplasia, is something some Newfoundlands are born with. Wear and time in the front legs (elbow joints) cause lameness by the time the Newfoundland is roughly a year old. *****

I know you have already gone down the surgey track and unfortuneately with all surgery there are risks one being infection and Staph in its many forms can be found everywhere even on the phone handset , and when you have a human or dog that has their immune system compromised through illness or surgery they are more prone to getting an overgrowth of this oppunistic bacteria and it just goes from there.

It would not matter how strictly aseptic the surgery area was kept Staph is just one of those nasty, nasty bugs which lurks in the background and strikes when you least expect it, I would have expected given your dogs surgical history and type of surgery that IV antibiotic dosing would have been given at time of surgery and often it is continued for a few days post, but this does not always prevent this situation occurring as often one antibiotic does not necessarily cover all strains of bacteria especially the Methicillin Resistant Staph aureus (MRSA) and the Vanco Resistant Stap Aureus(VRSA). check this article out it may help you to understand the mechanics of what happened etc

http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=3006&S=1

Hope all now goes well for puppy and that a suitable payment plan is available that is a lot of $$ to have had to spend so thankfully your dog is one of the very lucky ones to have such loving and caring owners

[Bigpuppy]

Thank you so much for your kind words - it is terrible. My father is a surgeon so am well educated re Staph and yes it is on the skin and everywhere - unfortunately in her case it was where the surgery was on the freshly cut bone and yes she was on IV however the lab results took 6 days and the medication she was on was not doing the trick! They were getting 4 bags of ooze draining from inside the wound a day.......we are insured but they have every right not to pay (I am a lawyer) as it has been admitted to be surgeons error and what I found very interesting is that he said "we always make mistakes and if we didn't charge for them we would be out of business!!!!" I am amazed if people just accept especially after big $$$$ have been paid straight away - not even a payment plan we just paid until now. After speaking with a number of friends that are Vets it became evident that with the massive doses of antibiotic it will have halved her life due to the damage done to her organs so really is a double edged sword. You are so right about health history etc and yes we checked it all but have also uncovered many, many cover ups there too - her brothers and sisters have suffered heart probs, thyroid probs etc etc so I feel very sad for the good breeders out there that are honest. I just am not sure if we are keeping her alive for us and for the vet???? How much surgery keeps going on and all I am concerned with is her level of pain and comfort as she has gone through so much. We adore her but I can't help but think with all her "joint" issues she is just too big for herself and every time we have been talked into surgery and she has been given every fabulous thing on the market since 10 weeks of age too????????? Would love to hear if anyone else has some staph stories from surgery and what the result was? Thank you again

[karly101]

I remember reading from one of the specialists that they had a couple of infection issues - they paid for swabs of the surgery and discovered the source and it was remedied and they also provided a certain discount from the cost (it wasn't all of it though). So it would be interesting if the specialist you went to did the same with their surgery. Did you have a discussion with them about the costs involved and if it was their fault why you are responsible to pay all of it? But yes even then infections are just one of those complications of surgery... poor girl I guess everyone has their limit on how far they would go and I'm trying to imagine myself in your shoes and I would probably say no more joint surgeries from there on in but just to make her as comfortable as possible with whats available and when she is no longer comfortable to kindly put her to sleep. But easier saying that when I'm not in your shoes!!

[zeebie]

Well now hopefully all surgery is over and healing just has to happen hopefully, it will all be behind and the road forward will show improvement, and yes it is a very difficult decision to make and I do know someone with similar situation with Border collie and in the end they did Euthanise dog as they totally understood how it was not about them it was all about her and how much she had to endure each day to just get up and walk to toilet etc, and she could no longer play with their other dogs etc, or play ball with the kids so her quality of life was very poor and she was only 2 and no where near as large a breed as your dog is.

So very very sad do let us know how she is going and what your decision is

As for the vet practice is hard to prove negligence, and failure of duty of care etc, and yes it is hard when it takes so long to get culture results back although they should have had an interim result in 3 days though. this would have shown organism but not necessarily sensitivities.

[Bigpuppy]

So nice to talk with those that understand........yes we spoke with the surgeon and his reply was exactly what I said that they would be broke if people didn't pay for their mistake!!!!!! We had offered to generously pay for the medication but not for the hospitalisation - we already paid for the op on the day which is fine. Some people I have spoken to said this particular man had met them half way - I feel the prob is he knows we have money and love our dog so he is going for it.....we had two Newfies originally the other did not even make it to months - she started to lose the use of her back legs ended up being neurological after $4000 worth of tests! Broke our hearts but we put her down as I spent three months using a towel to get her to the toilet and outside etc etc so this happening is just too much. She had a myleogram and never walked properly again - yes same well known Melbourne surgeon ! I had spoken to the breeder and she immediately got defensive and said she must be overweight?????? They were groomed every two weeks at the vets and neither overweight as I always had them checked and watched their diet etc. Was just looking at our girl now and she spends most of her time sitting and looking, she used to be far more playful so am convinced she is in pain. Am definately not letting anyone do more surgery because of the snapped screw and also I would never risk the Staph again. Just found out another Melbourne surgeon doesn't charge if your pet gets Staph and does the same procedure! Guess that is the lesson here for everyone.....ours claimed he was the only one who is able to do this procedure and we believed him! Think I might take her to our very practical local vet and get their thoughts as to what is best for her and put my own wants and desperation aside. Thank you again very comforting to read others versions and suggestions.

[Bigpuppy]

ooops - forgot to say she also plays very little with other dogs and she previously loved it - used to take her to the beach so that is a big indicator for us. She limps like she did prior to surgery!

[piper]

Bigpuppy,

This is not exactly like your situation. Many years ago my first border collie was attacked just before his first birthday, taken to the vets and the wounds appropriately treated surgically, drains inserted etc. After a few days the drains started leaking the most putrid fluid you have ever smelt. Straight back to the vets who when we rang said oh yes leaking is normal but bring him in for a check up. When they saw him they knew immediately it was not normal. Some of the skin had also started to look odd but we thought it was bruising.

Poor Ricky had some incredibly rare bacteria that turned into 1 of those flesh eating diseases. They kept him in and on mass doses of antibiotics and surgery daily to try and get back to clean healthy skin. When the cultures came back whatever it was could only be treated by 2 different antibiotics and big doses of them. We were given the information on the 2 antibiotics - neither of which were great and had big issues associated with them. The "safest" of the 2 were given intravenously for the next 5 days and we prepared for the fact that Ricky would not have a full lifespan due to the likely damage and he eventually came home with a massive gaping wound on his back and multiple drains and more stitches than I could count with more antibiotics for weeks until the hole (so much flesh was removed that they did not have enough to be able to close it over) had filled in.

Anyway, the point of all of that information is to say that Ricky lived until 13 and died of an issue not at all related to the issues we were told to expect and look out for. So although right now all seems bad, you might be like we were and be "lucky" in that your boy is not damaged by them.

Good luck. It sounds like an awful situation to be in

[Bigpuppy]

What an amazing story thank you so much - that gives me hope...........and what an awful saga for you because as you know you just want what is best for them. She has had 7 days of IV in ICU and now 65 days of 4000 mlgm per day?????? Was your length of time like that? She is such a gorgeous pup, huge, fluffy, beautiful temprement and clever - everything you could ask for.......but truthfully she is HUGE by Newf standards and is taller then my 6foot 4" son.....am sort of the opinion that the breed is no longer bred from working dogs so in our case have become too large hence all the issues...she is limping past me now! Breaks my heart each night she still checks in every bedroom to make sure all are there and in bed love the breed but not sure if would ever have one again just too painful. Anyway again thank you for your story, it is hugely appreciated.

[piper]

Ricky would have been about 6 to 8 weeks on the antibiotics. It was 1995 so I can't remember the specifics of size of dose or length of time. I remember he was hospitalised 10 days and then the antibiotics still needed to be given intravenously 3 times a day for another week or so but the vets were great and would let us bring him home during the day with a shunt in his leg covered in vet wrap. I think it was 5 more days of that before that was removed an he went onto oral antibiotics.

I think we were more traumatised than he was. What started out as a few puncture wounds over his hips ended up being all of the skin removed in an area well over the size of my hand. In the end he had a patch of firm scar tissue on his back between his hips. It was pure scar tissue - no hair follicles at all and totally smooth. Had he been a smooth coated dog he would have had a bare patch there but luckily his coat covered it so most people never knew.

[Bigpuppy]

OMG that would have been awful - and you feel like you have a baby in the house nursing them etc etc.....but looking at that would have traumatised any dog owner. Love the coat part - I too fretted about that...she had a bald patch on other leg after surgery for ages and a very gorgeous breeder put me onto the magic horse stuff Shapeleys MTG (Mane, tail grom) - stimulates growth and it worked within 7 days!!!!!!!!! Have often though it could be a good thing for bald men!!!!

[Staff'n'Mutt]

hi BP, I'm sorry you and your beautiful girl are going through so much. I can't offer any input as to the medical side of things just wanted to say how sorry I am to read your girl's story. I hope she recovers well and lives a long happy life with you all.

[Bigpuppy]

Thank you...have a bit of hope after joining this forum so am very grateful for the thoughts and suggestions - we will be visiting the local vet tomorrow and having a chat to find the best way forward for her......we even went and got a St Bernard pup who is fabulous and lies beside her, talks to her and follows her around and she loves him - hence why I had to have her so well checked for staph but skin, nose - everything was clear and her leg is healthy with no swelling or heat she just can't walk on it! If we do another op that puts her at $37500 including purchase!!!!!! But we love her but am not having her going through anymore trauma - just not right.

[ness]

Bigpuppy - there is an ortho dog yahoogroup which may be worth joining. Plenty of members have vast experiences with all sorts of problems regarding TPLO surgery complications. While its predominately a US group there are members from all around the place.

All the best with your pup.

[Bigpuppy]

Thanks Ness will search it out definately - I need as much info as possible

[alotanewfs]

I am so sorry to hear of the problems that you are having with your Newfoundland, It sounds very distressing for you all.

Can you PM me please the vet you used to keep on file.

I don't have much to offer you in regards to helping your girl except to ask if she is on any joint supplements? They really do seem to help and all puppies that leave here are to have joint supplements until 18 months of age and then again when they get to 6 or 7 years old. Ours are all on Bovine Collagen Powder, hard to get but have found it works the best. We also give MSM and Vitamin C along with a good Omega Oil. What food does she eat? How much does she weigh? If you haven't already, I would recommend getting her as thin as you can without starving her, sounds brutal but will help with her joints. Also no exercise where running or long walks are involved if possible, swimming is the best for joint recovery. You may already be doing all of this, but it can't hurt to let you know what we would do.

Newfs are very resilient, they cope with pain very well, I think a lot of the time, it hurts us much more than it hurts them.....

You can only do what you feel is best for your girl, and it will be the right decision.

Will keep sending positive vibes and thoughts for her to make a full recover, or get back to a happy pain free life.

While I understand your frustration and stress over this, please know that most breeders do breed with the very best of intentions and breed with stock that has passed all health tests to set a solid foundation. A very large % of Newfoundlands can and do still do what the breed was bred for. We are currently starting a Water rescue program with our club to let our dogs do what comes naturally.

Of course, with the very best breeding stock, sometimes problems still do arise, a breeder should be available for their buyers to support them and help them through any issues and I hope this is the case for you.

[Bigpuppy]

hi and thank you - yes she (they) have always been on Omega Oil, Vit C powder and exactly what you mentioned Bovine Collagen Powder - also only ever given Mobility by Royal Canine as their dried food - completely and always understood the importance of this - hence why we are certain she is just too big! Never did either go on long walks - we always took them to the beach for swimming (agree best ever for them) and she has not even been out of the house since this TPLO surgery due to the infection. You are so right about their pain threshold and yes distresses me more! Her leg looks excellent now but she cannot walk on it - so I have had her resting. Having said that she follows me around as Newfs do and is happy to do that. I have halved her food because of no exercise and beach visits and watch everything that she eats - 1 cup mobility with potions and powders for breakfast and dinner is 1 (kitchen tea cup) plus my fresh brew of vegies (carrotts, apples, fresh red meat, beans etc etc )I added lots of vegies and fruit to fill her up without calories and then some red meat - it is disgusting but at least fresh and I know what is in it!!!!! I think your point about Rescue water Program is a very important one as this is working for them and I am convinced that dogs like this are far better to breed from. And yes you are correct most breeders have good intentions however we know that sire of this one and many others has many, many issues and is still continuing to be bred from. I found 4 others and are in constant contact regarding the health issues they face - thankfully she does not have the heart and thyroid issues they do! Two of them have also had TPLO! Very disappointing. The breeder has kept away from all of us (?????) - not a Victorian and earlier on three of us were simply addressed with "must be overweight!" - none were!

[alotanewfs]

Sounds like you are doing, and have done, the best by your girl :) Sad to know of the problems she is having and I really hope and pray that she comes through just fine once her infection is cleared up.

Our club is having a Fun day/Xmas Party on the 25th November, if you are able to come along, you can chat to other Newfy owners there and share experiences etc....maybe someone there would have some ideas that could help her. You don't have to bring a dog to come along. I will PM you the details, just in case.

[aussielover]

Please contact the Victorian Veterinary Surgeons Board if you have any concerns about the ethics or conduct of the vet in question.

I recently was involved in a case where a young giant breed pup had a MRSA infection after orthopedic surgery, even though sterile technique was used, unfortunately sometmes these thinkgs happen. As far as I know the pup has recovered fully after being on a long course of antibiotics, although I suppose the long term effects of the infection and antibiotics are still unknown at this point, even though the pup is currently healthy and as energetic (and crazy) as ever.

Good luck, I hope your Newfie makes a full recovery.

[Bigpuppy]

Please contact the Victorian Veterinary Surgeons Board if you have any concerns about the ethics or conduct of the vet in question.

I recently was involved in a case where a young giant breed pup had a MRSA infection after orthopedic surgery, even though sterile technique was used, unfortunately sometmes these thinkgs happen. As far as I know the pup has recovered fully after being on a long course of antibiotics, although I suppose the long term effects of the infection and antibiotics are still unknown at this point, even though the pup is currently healthy and as energetic (and crazy) as ever.

Good luck, I hope your Newfie makes a full recovery.

Thank you and yes time can only tell if any damage done re medications. Unfortunately the VVSC is not a legal authority hence the lack of industry regulation, organisations are limited with no legal power to protect the public and will protect their own in their professional sector, especially if they believe there is an argument hence why many people have the same story and it has cost them many $$$$$$. Our issue is the Staph and mainly the unsuccessful surgery which is of no fault of the owners (us) - I believe in a simple example that if you hire a professional to do a job like fix your car and the bottom falls out than who is at fault regardless of emotion and circumstance of process questions? Is it the owner of the car? Having read so much on this forum and getting people's valuable ideas etc it appears it is an issue for many and is very disappointing that Australian spend more than AUD$2.1BILLION per year on their pets at Vets and the Vetinary industry is unregulated and without compliance - other than their State Veterinary Organisation which has no legal power only arbitrary ....a bit like Financial Planning Industry 10 years ago and the Real Estate Industry. We are able to take this matter further and I hope a precedent is created for the sake of the many responsible pet owners and Vets out there and thank you for you comments I wish she would be crazy as ever and playing but we found out this morning after an x-ray the surgery is a disaster!!!!