Guest Wildthing Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Post 28 was the first to quote Wiki Post 31 stated they had looked it up on Wiki and it did not say it causes immense pain anywhere Post 39 was my response to Post 31 Post 40 asked for a peer reviewed source for information describing the affects of low level carbon monoxide poisoning Post 46 was my response I am sorry you were not able to work that out for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Just saying I have read on the internet is not the same as providing the source and it being reputable. Until you can give a reference or two that states immense pain from low level CO2 exposure then it isn't true to me I'm afraid. People can write whatever they like on the internet, doesn't make it true. For example, I am so awesome it would blow your socks off. I said it, so it must be true :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 LOL @ Jo Wildthing Foxes are a living being just like domestic dogs. They are in this country because humans did not have the knowledge to leave them in the old country. To kill them because they are viewed as vermin by whatever means disgusts me. Carbon monoxide poisoning is cruel. Can you tell us please, what method of euthanasia you think is acceptable to kill foxes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I checked with Steve Austin and it was him that was hired for this job so they would be related to Em! :) ESS is on my wanted breeds one day list! I'd be content with at least half a dozen :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Just saying I have read on the internet is not the same as providing the source and it being reputable. Until you can give a reference or two that states immense pain from low level CO2 exposure then it isn't true to me I'm afraid. People can write whatever they like on the internet, doesn't make it true. For example, I am so awesome it would blow your socks off. I said it, so it must be true :laugh: Hey Rev Jo - was it CO or CO2??? The latter would be unpleasant but the former would be like going to sleep I think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Oops, CO, chemistry was a long long time ago :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Foxes are a living being just like domestic dogs. They are in this country because humans did not have the knowledge to leave them in the old country. To kill them because they are viewed as vermin by whatever means disgusts me. Carbon monoxide poisoning is cruel. So what do we do with them if we don't kill them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenGirl85 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Foxes are a living being just like domestic dogs. They are in this country because humans did not have the knowledge to leave them in the old country. To kill them because they are viewed as vermin by whatever means disgusts me. Carbon monoxide poisoning is cruel. So what do we do with them if we don't kill them? Domesticate them...duh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Oops, CO, chemistry was a long long time ago :laugh: lol - was looking through some revision notes today and don't I know that feeling :laugh: On my iPhone at the moment but did they say how they were administering the CO? Must be very localised as it doesn't take much to knock out a human. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espinay2 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Has it been established what level of CO they are using? Argument about low levels is moot if they are ensuring they use sufficiently high ones. While no killing is ever easy it is IMO a much better approach than 1080 (used on every property around mine here) as it is targetted and does not result in native animal and bird deaths when they consume baits as well. I too would like to know if you have an alternative approach in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mantis Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Can everyone stop picking on Wildthing. I understand why they are upset about this issue. It breaks my heart that innocent animals have to suffer, because of human irresponsibility. That's why we have BSL. Stupid humans cause the death of innocent animals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 No one wants to see the foxes killed but spreading false information isn't helpful to anyone. I would think that you would be one to advocate for truth as misinformation is what started BSL in the first place. If she was posting things about bull breeds that wasn't true you'd be the first to jump in and correct her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Wildthing Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 At no stage have I said the foxes should not be killed. Reverend Jo,you state that information can not necessarily be believed because it is on the internet. That means that no one can believe the original post in this thread. I am not spreading false information as you imply. I am posting what I believe and what I have read. It was not me who posted that carbon monoxide causes immense pain (to the foxes), so direct your statements to that poster. My suggestion would be for people who read these threads to think about what they have read carefully before they have a knee jerk reaction and post. My first post has challenged a lot of people over their long held beliefs which may or may not be scientifically based. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I don't think you know what I mean about not believing things on the net. You did post based on emotion and for me, your posts have not challenged my long held beliefs. I have come to my opinions after a lot of reading and experience. My beliefs are based on evidence and scientific validity because my science degree is zoology and wildlife biology. I support animal welfare, not animal rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 I was just tidying up and came across a lit review I wrote regarding feral cat control. Looked up the original references and it was as I remembered. Carbon monoxide (CO) inhalation causes rapid death - atmospheric concentrations of more than 2% will cause rapid death without pain or appreciable discomfort in most mammals. Sensory irritation unlikely even at 80% concentration. Mammals rapidly lose consciousness before respiratory failure occurs. More humane and higher efficacy than chloropicrin (tear gas) and phosphine gas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 (edited) That gels with what I had in my mind but I didn't have any refs for it. Edited November 13, 2012 by Reverend Jo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 That gels with what I had in my mind but I didn't have any refs for it. Meant to add that too: Green CJ (1982) Animal anaesthesia in Laboratory animals handbook 8. Laboratory Animals Ltd, London. I actually have more issues with the use of 1080. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 This is a massive leap forward in terms of feral animal management, baits are horrible. This is a very humane solution and I hope it's a very successful program. I'll put that ref in endnote so it's there if I need it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 (edited) This is a massive leap forward in terms of feral animal management, baits are horrible. This is a very humane solution and I hope it's a very successful program. I'll put that ref in endnote so it's there if I need it If you have a lazy afternoon, have a look at the RSPCA seminar from 2003- some interesting reading, personal perspectives and half decent referencing on feral animal control. Some of the legislation is probably a bit outdated but it gives a good idea about what is going on in the background. ETA: How I love thee Endnote, let me count the ways :laugh: Edited November 13, 2012 by The Spotted Devil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Thanks, I'll go through that when I take a yea break, am PhDing right now :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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