Titre Testing Instead Of Annual Vaccinations.

[eyeopener]

I refuse to do annual vacc without a titre test being done first n my old boy only ever needed 1 booster his whole entire life.

[Steph M]

Just out of curiousity mainly, would this be the sort of thing you would do from the get-go, or would you run the initial puppy course of vaccs and then go from there?

I agree we over vaccinate, I'm just wondering if this is pretty widely accepted or not so much, I;E, puppy school, kenneling and travel.

[eyeopener]

I do the initial puppy vacc course of 3 needles over 6 mths but test before any annual boosters are given. Some dogs tend to need a booster at 2 yrs of age n then not again to after 5 yrs old, some need more n more less it's very individual I am finding. But I can only imagine who over vacc my boy would have been as his umunity never dropped off.

[teekay]

I've just done this with Jenna and very pleased to hear she doesn't need her vaccinations this year.

Vetpath in WA charge about $70 for the parvo and distemper test. Your vet can set up an account there and send off the blood samples interstate. Obviously they will charge for this but all up, it only cost me $100.

If you have pet insurance it is worth checking with them that your dog will still be covered. Petplan said they would still cover if the vet agreed she didn't need the vaccs.

Edited November 10, 2012 by teekay

[*Oscar*]

For those that do test rather then vaccinate what are the costs involved? My boy gets really itchy throughout the year so Id be interested to try titre testing him and seeing if that improves his itchiness and hotspots throughout the next year.

Anyone know any SA kennels that would accept titre testing?

[LuvsDobes]

Here in Melbourne I paid $150 per dog for the three core diseases; hepatitis, parvovirus and distemper. The bloods are sent to VetPath in Perth, the additional cost over and above Teekay is courier interstate.

This is approx 30% more than a vaccine consult.

Bear in mind, if the titres come back below acceptable immunity levels (unlikely for me, but possible nonetheless), there is then an additional cost for vaccination.

Edited November 10, 2012 by LuvsDobes

[Chris the Rebel Wolf]

Very interested in this thread and learning more about titres :)

I've seen it mentioned before, that titre tests are not always accurate as to immunity, can anybody explain this in captain dummy talk for me?

[Chocolatelover]

Very interested in this thread and learning more about titres :)

I've seen it mentioned before, that titre tests are not always accurate as to immunity, can anybody explain this in captain dummy talk for me?

I'll give it a go - bearing in mind I work in human pathology not animal :)

A titre test determines how many times you can dilute the plasma, blood or serum (whatever is being tested) before the antibody is diluted out and can no longer be detected. The theory is that the higher the titre the better immunity the animal has to that disease. Some people will tell you there is no correlation however I think the difficulty arises because of the variable nature of antibodies. There are some diseases where there is no correlation - I think (from memory) that leptospirosis may be one of these. The antibody test will actually only tell you whether the dog has contracted the disease and not give an indication of their immunity. But for others, like parvo and distemper, they can be quite accurate at predicting whether a dog is low or high risk. The accuracy is not 100% (science is never exact) but I suppose you need to weigh the pros/cons of vaccination over the risks of the accuracy of the titre test.

In my work we measure titre levels in pregnant women who have made antibodies against their baby's blood, which can put the unborn baby at risk if not monitored and treated if necessary. One thing we do find is for some antibodies there is poor correlation between the antibody titre and the risk to the baby. For other antibodies there is good correlation. Some antibodies are definitely more "active" than others, even at lower levels, so this does question the simplicity of "high titre = good immunity".

And to complicate matters more - even if antibody levels do drop off and become undetectable, we have cells in our blood that have will make the antibody a lot quicker the second time an animal is exposed to a certain disease. So it may be that once immunity is established the animal would have life long immunity anyway BUT not all vaccines produce this life long immunity. Live vaccines are better at providing life long immunity than inactivated vaccines (immunity usually drops off and boosters are needed) so it also depends on the type of vaccine available for a particular disease.

Anyway, not sure if that helped or made it more complicated - probably the latter :) Vaccines have prevented more deaths than any other medical procedures so I guess we should value their contribution to the health of both humans and animals whatever we decide.

[tdierikx]

I was actually having a discussion the other night with a vet friend of mine who has actually published papers on the topic of vaccination and sustained immunity. I was asking whether my older girl would benefit from being vaccinated - bearing in mind she hasn't had a vaccination for about 8 years.

Apparently as I foster rescue pups often, my dogs are most likely being exposed in small doses to a number of diseases (not only the ones we vaccinate for) on a regular basis, and thusly their immune systems are most likely to be more robust than dogs who do not come into contact with said diseases as regularly. My rescue pups are all vaccinated age appropriately. All of my own dogs were fully puppy vaccinated, and have had their first adult booster shot.

However, as my old girl is now 13 years old, it may be efficacious to give her a booster shot now in order to make sure that her immunity levels are maintained properly. My other adult dogs are 2 and 7, but my vet friend said that they would most likely be fine without needing a booster shot at this point in time due to the above reasons. My current pup has just had her second puppy shot, and will have a third, then an adult booster 12 moonths after that.

One of my vets years ago once told me that they were aware that annual vaccinations were most likely not completely necessary, but that they pushed the issue because they wanted to see the dog every year for a checkup... *sigh*

T.

[lils mum]

.....

One of my vets years ago once told me that they were aware that annual vaccinations were most likely not completely necessary, but that they pushed the issue because they wanted to see the dog every year for a checkup... *sigh*

T.

Exactly! To lose annual vaccinations from all of the general public would be devastating to vet income I suspect. There is also the problem of 'off label' use of vaccines. The manufacturers (AFAIK) still maintain that the vaccine is only 'guaranteed' for 12 months. However, the AVA vaccination policy states - “It is being recognised that veterinarians should aim to reduce the vaccine load on individual animals to minimise the risk of adverse reactions to the products (Day et al, 2007).”

link to statement

I don't believe people should just stop vaccinating. the principle of herd immunity is a necessary consideration. however, titre testing for me is a viable alternative

[tdierikx]

I don't think it's just income based when the vet wants to give your dog a thorough checkup once a year. I tend to find and use vets who will listen to my wishes for my dogs' health and wellbeing, and just treat them for things above and beyond my own knowledge if I need it.

Since I've been involved in rescue, my local vet has been known to ring me and ask for advice on some things... *grin*... and you should see how excited they get when I bring in a stool sample for a float to check for things like coccidia or giardia or the like - they just don't see a lot of that sort of thing in a suburban practice... lol!

They are also open to prescribing suitable human grade medications that one can get from the chemist to reduce the price load on their clients... I love my vets!

T.

[Rappie]

The general principle behind the WSAVA guide lines is to vaccinate MORE animals, LESS frequently in order to decrease the vaccine load but still maintain herd immunity (which generally requires 70-80% of a population to be vaccinated).

The 2-3 puppy vaccinations are still considered essential, as a 'booster' given 12 months after the last puppy vaccine, then moving on to a 3 year protocol or titre testing. The 3 year interval ONLY applies to the core vaccines of parvovirus, distemper, hepatitis (and rabies in some countries) and not to non-core vaccines. For the most part the non core vaccines are bacterial and don't confer the same level of immunity as viral ones and are unlikely to last for more than 12 months (if that long at all). The vast majority of dogs will maintain adequate titres for at least 3 years, but it is a bit more variable beyond that time. Some dogs will maintain life long immunity, some wont. The main inconvenience that we currently have in Australia is that if immunity to CPV, CDV or CAV is low then we need to give a combined C3 vaccine to remedy it - we don't have monovalent vaccines here. The other thing to note is that some dogs will just be non-responders and will not get a measurable titre no matter how many vaccines we give them. It's only now that titre testing is more common that these dogs might be identified (without them getting an infectious disease).

[lils mum]

I don't think it's just income based when the vet wants to give your dog a thorough checkup once a year. I tend to find and use vets who will listen to my wishes for my dogs' health and wellbeing, and just treat them for things above and beyond my own knowledge if I need it.

Since I've been involved in rescue, my local vet has been known to ring me and ask for advice on some things... *grin*... and you should see how excited they get when I bring in a stool sample for a float to check for things like coccidia or giardia or the like - they just don't see a lot of that sort of thing in a suburban practice... lol!

They are also open to prescribing suitable human grade medications that one can get from the chemist to reduce the price load on their clients... I love my vets!

T.

I too have great vets, and I have no objection whatsoever to vets who want owners to bring their dogs in for annual check ups. My issue is with those vets (and it's most IME) who do this under the premise that annual vaccination is essential. It's just not. IMO this is the 'income based' issue - if client education regarding the importance of annual health review was the target, I'd be a lot less cynical.

I was the first client in my vets' practice to request titre testing some years ago - they were fantastic and fully supportive. though I had researched it and had the information on where to send samples, etc they also researched it more. I also have an issue with vets who refuse to observe a client's concerns and state that they will not give C3 instead of C5. The AVA policy also discusses the issue of 'informed consent' - I'm not entirely sure that most vets invest the time to ensure that animals are vaccinated annually with 'informed consent'. I love my vets too - they are happy to chat, discuss, and they are also keen to learn what I know about breed specific health issues...

[lils mum]

The general principle behind the WSAVA guide lines is to vaccinate MORE animals, LESS frequently in order to decrease the vaccine load but still maintain herd immunity (which generally requires 70-80% of a population to be vaccinated).

The 2-3 puppy vaccinations are still considered essential, as a 'booster' given 12 months after the last puppy vaccine, then moving on to a 3 year protocol or titre testing. The 3 year interval ONLY applies to the core vaccines of parvovirus, distemper, hepatitis (and rabies in some countries) and not to non-core vaccines. For the most part the non core vaccines are bacterial and don't confer the same level of immunity as viral ones and are unlikely to last for more than 12 months (if that long at all). The vast majority of dogs will maintain adequate titres for at least 3 years, but it is a bit more variable beyond that time. Some dogs will maintain life long immunity, some wont. The main inconvenience that we currently have in Australia is that if immunity to CPV, CDV or CAV is low then we need to give a combined C3 vaccine to remedy it - we don't have monovalent vaccines here. The other thing to note is that some dogs will just be non-responders and will not get a measurable titre no matter how many vaccines we give them. It's only now that titre testing is more common that these dogs might be identified (without them getting an infectious disease).

I have no issue with appropriate puppy vaccinations. I'd prefer to see it as just 2 myself, but that of course means a later first dose, and a little longer with their breeder. Not always possible I know... And perhaps instead of the booster at 12 months, how about a titer level? I've done this - and found the antibody levels to be perfectly acceptable for immunity without need for a booster.

I agree, it would be wonderful if we could access monovalent vaccines - many years ago a Great Dane breeder I know brought in her own. Not sure how she manged that, but she did...

But i wish someone would explain the attitude of a number of vets I've heard of recently who refuse to use C3 for a 12 week old puppy that has had C3 at ets 6 weeks (not 8). it's not that this person doesn't want to vaccinate, she simply wants to make a choice - recommended by her breeder and several other knowledgable people - to have C3 only.

I also wish that people would consider not dosing puppies with everything on one day - don't worm and vaccinate all together.

Edited November 11, 2012 by lils mum

[lils mum]

oops, repeat post

Edited November 11, 2012 by lils mum

[Canine Coach]

A group of performance people had success in getting permission to use titre tests in lieu of yearly vaccines &/or to use C #3 in lieu of C 5.

C #5 is NOT reccommended by the Australian Vet Assoc. We did the following

For those of you who are members of ANKC state branches : Contact the office of your state branch Ask who the appropriate perosn on MGMT Committee is

Then a short phone call or E Mail or letter requesting the subject of titre testing in lieu of vaaccines be brought up at the next committee meeting

You may wish to enclose a copy of the Australian Vet Association (AVA) Protocol For Dogs & Cats & a couple of recent articles on the dangers of over vacconating (google Dr Jean Dodds for artciles/links)

Management committe WILL help if you assiat them by providing recent, relevant info.

It also helps to write short articles for Sate Gazettes siting recent easy to read research

Local councils who make the bi laws requiring boarding kennels site C 5 Certificates can also be approached by contacting your local rep. & asking them to put the issue on the agenda

[lils mum]

A group of performance people had success in getting permission to use titre tests in lieu of yearly vaccines &/or to use C #3 in lieu of C 5.

C #5 is NOT reccommended by the Australian Vet Assoc. We did the following

For those of you who are members of ANKC state branches : Contact the office of your state branch Ask who the appropriate perosn on MGMT Committee is

Then a short phone call or E Mail or letter requesting the subject of titre testing in lieu of vaaccines be brought up at the next committee meeting

You may wish to enclose a copy of the Australian Vet Association (AVA) Protocol For Dogs & Cats & a couple of recent articles on the dangers of over vacconating (google Dr Jean Dodds for artciles/links)

Management committe WILL help if you assiat them by providing recent, relevant info.

It also helps to write short articles for Sate Gazettes siting recent easy to read research

Local councils who make the bi laws requiring boarding kennels site C 5 Certificates can also be approached by contacting your local rep. & asking them to put the issue on the agenda

Can I ask if this went to the general management/obedience committee or to the health committee? just curious. I think that maybe if it could go to the health committee, perhaps they could then make a national recommendation at their ANKC meeting. Now that would be revolutionary! :D

[BJean]

I'm thinking of getting my dog's titre tested annually instead of giving them a booster that they might not even need. My holistic vet friend recommended this and I'm really considering it. Just a few questions though.

Does any one do this? Do boarding kennels, competitions and training grounds accept titre test results as proof of protection for your dog?

I am not sure if it is indicative of a wider acceptance of titre testing,

but recently I had a dog o/s whose RNATT and rabies vaccination had expired, but instead of the dog requiring another rabies vaccination, the dog only required another Rabies Titre Test for import to Australia.