Latest Research On Prong & Check Collars

[Salukifan]

I feel it's just ignorance that creates this fear of prong collars. Most people that hate them have never used one. Sure they look scary but using one quickly shows how useful and painless they are. I have tried one on my upper arm and it is NOT painful when used correctly. As stated earlier flat collar used incorrectly can cause terrible damage too.

I'd suggest that most people who hate them have never seen one and certainly not experienced what one feels like.

[melzawelza]

I feel it's just ignorance that creates this fear of prong collars. Most people that hate them have never used one. Sure they look scary but using one quickly shows how useful and painless they are. I have tried one on my upper arm and it is NOT painful when used correctly. As stated earlier flat collar used incorrectly can cause terrible damage too.

I'd suggest that most people who hate them have never seen one and certainly not experienced what one feels like.

Very true, and I'll add that they don't *want* to learn about them. I have been attacked by people before because I support the use of prong collars if the situation is appropriate. I asked the person if they've ever seen one been used or been educated in their use and she replied 'No and I don't want to! They are cruel!'.

Can't educate closed mindedness.

[Podengo]

Dunno, I tried a check chain on my arm and it hurt lots, caught my skin and left bruises all the way around

Does anyone have a link to that paper that outlines permanent neck damage caused by check/prong collars? Going by that, prong collars are much safer to use.

[hankdog]

I do use a prong, under professional guidance and have used a check chain. Correctly fitted the prong can only tighten to a certain amount, it's not the same as a check that can continue tightening so I believe is more idiot proof. You can thoroughly pinch with it but it won't move around and won't strangle the dog. However I had a stranger admire it the other day, he thought it looked"cool" and wanted to get one. Needless to say I told him it was prescription only through a behaviorist. My dogs alternative is permanent confinement to the yard.

[Crisovar]

Dunno, I tried a check chain on my arm and it hurt lots, caught my skin and left bruises all the way around

Does anyone have a link to that paper that outlines permanent neck damage caused by check/prong collars? Going by that, prong collars are much safer to use.

Well, you were not using the check chain correctly.

[Podengo]

Dunno, I tried a check chain on my arm and it hurt lots, caught my skin and left bruises all the way around

Does anyone have a link to that paper that outlines permanent neck damage caused by check/prong collars? Going by that, prong collars are much safer to use.

Well, you were not using the check chain correctly.

Well it was on the right way, so too fine a chain? Too hard a correction on my arm? This is why general public should not be allowed to use them LOL.

[BJean]

Always been known as check chains as far back as I can remember... only the ignorant and the activists refer to them as choke chains.

Think about it - what good does it do to choke the crap out of your dog? Whereas a check and release is very effective when done correctly... I only have to apply gentle tension to my girls' leads and just the noise of the links moving has them corrected quickly.

T.

I see very very few used as intended. With the way Joe public uses chains I think 'choke' is an appropriate name.

bahaha yeah like a 'gentle leader' :laugh:

[Podengo]

Can't find the actual paper, but the info from it...

A Study on Prong Collars was done in Germany:

100 dogs were in the study. 50 used choke and 50 used prong.

The dogs were studied for their entire lives. As dogs died, autopsies were performed.

Of the 50 which had chokes, 48 had injuries to the neck, trachea, or back. 2 of those were determined to be genetic. The other 46 were caused by trauma.

Of the 50 which had prongs, 2 had injuries in the neck area, 1 was determined to be genetic. 1 was caused by trauma.

(Information about above study taken from an Anne Marie Silverton Seminar).

Wonder who the people in the study were? Perhaps the numbers are an effect of general public using check chains, whereas prong collars seem to be limited to people who are involved in dog training.

[Sabbath]

Removed as redundant.

Edited November 8, 2012 by Sabbath

[Lollipup]

I think a check chain actually has a higher potential to be mis-used and the study mentioned in DiscoDobe's post would suggest that too.

There are some that disagree with any pressure on the neck or head at all and only use harnesses.

I have to admit, I was the same when I first saw a prong collar, and it was just a photo. As soon as I saw one in real life I felt better about it, then learned to use it and now prefer it to a check chain.

I recently had a client who is a vet nurse. She had not been able to walk her very large dog at all for over a year as he had pulled her over several times trying to get to other dogs or anything else he wanted to see. He basically hadn't been out of the backyard since he was a puppy. He was pulling on a check chain and just pulling to the end of it. As a vet nurse, she had been to a training course in Brisbane run by a trainer who was totally against prong collars. His education to the class was to show them a photo of one, tell them they are cruel and abusive and the "worst thing God allowed onto the Earth" She of course accepted what the trainer said - she was there to learn. So when I took it out she was a bit surprised at first but she said the instant she felt it on her arm, her previous views on it went out the window. We took her dog for a pleasant walk - the first one he had had in a year. She said I was an angel in disguise and I laughed - yeah an angel with an EVIL tool! :laugh: Of course we will do some ongoing training with him. Seriously though, the dog barely needed corrections, just some guidance and wouldn't anyone rather that than leaving him in the backyard his whole life for fear of being dragged?

[Lollipup]

This is the article by Emily Larlham (aka Kikopup) about using collars (of any sort)

http://clicktreat.blogspot.com.au/2012/06/is-it-harmful-to-attach-aleash-to-your.html

I like Emily and I see some valid points but I think the key is to not allow the dogs to pull on any collar constantly. If you are going to just let them keep pulling, then use a harness.

[Podengo]

This is the article by Emily Larlham (aka Kikopup) about using collars (of any sort)

http://clicktreat.blogspot.com.au/2012/06/is-it-harmful-to-attach-aleash-to-your.html

I like Emily and I see some valid points but I think the key is to not allow the dogs to pull on any collar constantly. If you are going to just let them keep pulling, then use a harness.

[BJean]

There are some that disagree with any pressure on the neck or head at all and only use harnesses.

It's all very well to disagree, but when it comes to putting into practice what you disagree with in theory

I can think of a handful of dogs I'd send their way

and good luck using only a harness.

Dogs and their owners are so diverse -

so it's such a shame that dog theorists and some dog professionals

feel the need to apply what they *think* is right and will work

as being best for all.

To the point where I now tell puppy homes, not to waste their time and go to puppy classes, as most of what they get told is of no benefit and will not apply to them and their dog.

[Salukifan]

Well all I can say is please God let me NOT encounter people walking powerful dogs on harnesses simply because they've been schooled that all collars are "cruel".

Handlers grass skiing behind dogs belting towards me is not something I want to encounter.

[Lollipup]

There are some that disagree with any pressure on the neck or head at all and only use harnesses.

It's all very well to disagree, but when it comes to putting into practice what you disagree with in theory

I can think of a handful of dogs I'd send their way

and good luck using only a harness.

Dogs and their owners are so diverse -

so it's such a shame that dog theorists and some dog professionals

feel the need to apply what they *think* is right and will work

as being best for all.

To the point where I now tell puppy homes, not to waste their time and go to puppy classes, as most of what they get told is of no benefit and will not apply to them and their dog.

I completely agree. Every dog is different so will need an individual approach. Good idea to look for a trainer who realises this rather than telling everyone to do something one way as the right way.

[BJean]

This is the article by Emily Larlham (aka Kikopup) about using collars (of any sort)

http://clicktreat.blogspot.com.au/2012/06/is-it-harmful-to-attach-aleash-to-your.html

I like Emily and I see some valid points but I think the key is to not allow the dogs to pull on any collar constantly. If you are going to just let them keep pulling, then use a harness.

This is exactly the type of crap I hope my puppy homes avoid:

If dogs bite each other shouldn’t it be natural for us to emulate them to train them?

It all depends on your morals and ethics whether inflicting intimidation or pain on an animal is an acceptable behavior. It is part of human behavior in a society to bully, rape and kill each other, but that doesn’t make it moral or give one the right to do it to other people. Because dogs and wolves bully, fight, and kill each other does not make it acceptable for us to emulate their behavior towards our own dog. Dogs play-fight using their mouths, see the photo above left, but that also doesn’t give us a right to use collars or intimidation to manage or train dogs. Jerking a dog on a collar could suppress a behavior from happening, but it can also cause behavioral side effects such as aggression and frustration

Edited November 8, 2012 by lilli

[dotdashdot]

I grew up with my parents using check chains (properly, no choking happened, non-pulling dogs), so I naturally started using one with Cleo. She didn't respond well to it, I didn't want to hurt her (she was pulling against it) so I now use a halti and have a non-pulling dog.

Each to their own, halti's definately don't work for everyone (and some think my dog has a muzzle on and avoid us but oh well) and obviously check chains didn't work for me.

[mantis]

When you have a 45kg dog & you are only 53kg, good luck trying to control the dog with a harness.

[Jed]

When did check collars become unpopular? When I showed my Cairns in the 70's & 80's, everyone used them in the ring.

I think the RSPCA started an anti check chain campaign - they wouldn't sell them in their pet shop. But then the campaign seemed to fade away.

And yes, check chains, in silver, gold and black, chain and snake chain are still used in the ring

And when they are used properly, you aren't jerking it on the dog. I train mine on flat collars and when they are good on the flat collar, change to a choker. And if the dog is big, it is possible that the check chain just might avert disaster in a bad situation.

I don't understand how those people being towed along by cavaliers on harnesses can tolerate it. I have put it down to a failure to be able to train to a collar

Edited November 8, 2012 by Jed

[mantis]

When did check collars become unpopular? When I showed my Cairns in the 70's & 80's, everyone used them in the ring.

I think the RSPCA started an anti check chain campaign - they wouldn't sell them in their pet shop. But then the campaign seemed to fade away.

And yes, check chains, in silver, gold and black, chain and snake chain are still used in the ring

And when they are used properly, you aren't jerking it on the dog. I train mine on flat collars and when they are good on the flat collar, change to a choker. And if the dog is big, it is possible that the check chain just might avert disaster in a bad situation.

I don't understand how those people being towed along by cavaliers on harnesses can tolerate it. I have put it down to a failure to be able to train to a collar

I'm surprised the RSPCA aren't at shows, trying to charge people with cruelty for using them. Sorry. couldn't help myself.