Not Sure Who Was In The Wrong

[Atanquin]

Okay it was the first night of training with all the other dogs's zorro was on lead all night except for when it was our turn to run the course. Anyway there was another lady there with her dog I have never seen before and as I walked past her dog with zorro the dog attacked zorro .

Anyway zorro tried to get away yelping and when the other dog walked away I made sure zorro was okay, anyway the owner shot me the dirtiest look and didn't come over to help or apologize.

Anyway later I hear her complaining to the instructors about new people not knowing not to go near her dog, like what happened was my fault?

Zorro and I where just walking past her dog was not on a lead or muzzled?

Should I talk to one of the instructors about it?

Ps sorry about spelling and grammar

Edited November 7, 2012 by Atanquin

[Greytmate]

Okay it was the first night of training with all the other dogs's zorro was on lead all night except for when it was our turn to run the course. Anyway there was another lady there with her dog I have never seen before and as I walked past her dog with zorro the dog attacked zorro .

Anyway zorro tried to get away yelping and when the other dog walked away I made sure zorro was okay, anyway the owner shot me the dirtiest look and didn't come over to help or apologize.

Anyway later I hear her complaining to the instructors about new people not knowing not to go near her dog, like what happened was my fault?

Zorro and I where just walking past her dog was not on a lead or muzzled?

Should I talk to one of the instructors about it?

Ps sorry about spelling and grammar

Instructors will usually ask new people not to go to close to other dogs - but they can't make people do anything . It should have been made clear to her by the club that people with aggressive dogs are responsible for them and should muzzle them if aggressive.

This should be reported in writing as an incident. Even if Zorro is ok, the lady needs to be given extra help and reminded of club rules.

[Staff'n'Mutt]

I'm sorry you and Zorro had a crappy episode. Hope your guy is ok. Sometimes you can't win no matter what you do. To me and I'm no expert she's at fault you had control of your dog she didn't. If her dog is reactive why didn't it have the fluro ribbon (or whatever your club uses to denote agressive/reactive dogs) attached? if it had you'd know to give a wide berth to the animal.

[Dxenion]

To me it seems like she was an irresponsible owner who failed to keep control of her dog. She failed to warn you to give her dog some space and I'm guessing this club doesn't use yellow bandannas as a visual warning either. How on earth were you supposed to know that particular dog needed more space? It upset me to read that she didn't even apologise. I would have had more than a few choice words for her (to remind of her legal responsibility to effectively control her dog) and then I would have reported the attack. I have absolutely zero tolerance for irresponsible owners.

Edited November 7, 2012 by Dxenion

[Jumabaar]

I would probably be inclined to ask the club if there is a system in place to identify dogs that are reactive- and gently suggest the create one if they don't. It will help everyone in the club and hopefully give you a more positive outlook next time you visit, rather than dwelling on the negative.

[Atanquin]

Okay it was the first night of training with all the other dogs's zorro was on lead all night except for when it was our turn to run the course. Anyway there was another lady there with her dog I have never seen before and as I walked past her dog with zorro the dog attacked zorro .

Anyway zorro tried to get away yelping and when the other dog walked away I made sure zorro was okay, anyway the owner shot me the dirtiest look and didn't come over to help or apologize.

Anyway later I hear her complaining to the instructors about new people not knowing not to go near her dog, like what happened was my fault?

Zorro and I where just walking past her dog was not on a lead or muzzled?

Should I talk to one of the instructors about it?

Ps sorry about spelling and grammar

Instructors will usually ask new people not to go to close to other dogs - but they can't make people do anything . It should have been made clear to her by the club that people with aggressive dogs are responsible for them and should muzzle them if aggressive.

This should be reported in writing as an incident. Even if Zorro is ok, the lady needs to be given extra help and reminded of club rules.

Thanks grey I think I will bring it up at the next club meeting it was hard not to walk past the dog as it was right on the entrance path :p

[Atanquin]

I think the reason why she didn't have anything on to indicate it was an aggressive dog is that it's a really small club I knew most of the others I only didn't know about 3 of them but they where all on lead and apparently her dog had ago at Molly too ( she is another cocker spaniel who went up with me and is zorro's GF ) as she walked in.

[Greytmate]

Okay it was the first night of training with all the other dogs's zorro was on lead all night except for when it was our turn to run the course. Anyway there was another lady there with her dog I have never seen before and as I walked past her dog with zorro the dog attacked zorro .

Anyway zorro tried to get away yelping and when the other dog walked away I made sure zorro was okay, anyway the owner shot me the dirtiest look and didn't come over to help or apologize.

Anyway later I hear her complaining to the instructors about new people not knowing not to go near her dog, like what happened was my fault?

Zorro and I where just walking past her dog was not on a lead or muzzled?

Should I talk to one of the instructors about it?

Ps sorry about spelling and grammar

Instructors will usually ask new people not to go to close to other dogs - but they can't make people do anything . It should have been made clear to her by the club that people with aggressive dogs are responsible for them and should muzzle them if aggressive.

This should be reported in writing as an incident. Even if Zorro is ok, the lady needs to be given extra help and reminded of club rules.

Thanks grey I think I will bring it up at the next club meeting it was hard not to walk past the dog as it was right on the entrance path :p

I think you need to write down what happened tonight, and do it while it is fresh in your memory. Then send it in to the club along with the names of anyone who you know witnessed the attack. It needs to be filed as an incident so that the committee are forced to address what happened You could make a suggestion at the meeting for a bandana system, but that is a separate issue to what happened to Zorro.

I don't know that a bandana system is a better idea than not taking dog -aggressive dogs into a group training situation where not everything is 100% reliable and predictable. It is probably an overwhelming environment for that dog, if it feels threatened enough to bite other dogs.

[fuzzy82]

She was clearly at fault, not keeping her aggressive dog on leash, and/or telling you to give him space as you walked past.

My dog has some issues with other dogs, which is why I always have him on leash at training unless we're doing a course, and I always ask the newbies to give him space.

I don't really like the idea of having some system to show which dogs are reactive/aggressive, because that means if the dog isn't wearing a yellow ribbon/orange leash it's ok to approach without asking...? The default should be to keep your dog on leash, give all other dogs space, and always ask before approaching any other dog. You shouldn't need a ribbon on your dog for others to show basic manners.

[Wobbly]

Wow, unbelievable she had the dog off leash. Not your fault at all, she is absolutely in the wrong.

WTH was she thinking?? I'd never let my dog off leash around other dogs in that situation and she has been good with other dogs for more than 4 yrs now. Frankly I have no patience for people who will let a dog off leash when they know has any history of untoward aggression around other dogs.

Did she expect you to be psychic and just somehow magically know you have to compensate for her irresponsible stupidity when you've never encountered her or her dog before? Incredible.

I have to admit, I do like the yellow bandanna idea for myself because my dog is polite and friendly with other dogs these days and that gives people the mistaken idea that they can let their dog jump all over her.

If I put a yellow bandanna on her on the street would other people understand it means she's not to be trusted with other dogs? Probably not, what a shame.

The other day I took my dog to the beach (on leash ofc) and a little off leash fluffer pup (very cute) was just dying to play with her, prancing around doing it's utmost to cajole her into a game. I ended up scooping it up into my arms and bringing it back to it's owner. He was really appreciative that I was concerned for his dog, because judging by my dog's body language she seems really friendly to other dogs, so he couldn't know to call the pup back. The onus to make sure everything is safe is absolutely on me. I don't think she was any danger to his dog at all really, she's very predictable with her trigger being excessive excitement and she can't get to that level of over-stimulation on leash. But I prefer to err on the side of caution, it's the sensible, responsible way to act.

And I guess that's what I don't understand about the lady in your class, surely if you know there's a potential for problems you would err on the side of absolute caution and do everything in your power to make sure nothing untoward can possibly happen?

Does she not realise her dog attacking another can lead to her dog being declared dangerous? I'd be mentioning that to her if I were you, if she's not aware, she should be made aware.

The woman is a fool. Definitely inform the instructors, she's a menace and needs to be made to understand her behaviour isn't acceptable.

Edited November 7, 2012 by Wobbly

[megan_]

O assume this was at agility and that was why the dog was off leash? Yes, she was in the wrong however at training you really need to assume that every dog is reactive and give them space (I'd if every dog is st the end of their leash the shouldn't touch. I don't let my dogs greet Amy dogs st agility- we're there to play with eachother, not other dogs.

We have one person at one of the clubs with a highly reactive BC who stands around at tunnel exits while her dog attacks others. I don't participate in that particular class due to the risks.

Bandanas don't get used in agility as they can get caught and the dog can die as a result. That said, she really should undergo s program like control unleashed before she starts agility.

[chuckandsteve]

I have a reactive dog, he isnt too bad and we have not had issues off lead (in controlled situations with a private trainer)

He wheres a yellow bandana at training and i make sure i stay away from the group if possible and that i dont block parhways etc. it was 100% her fault. I would be so upset and embrassed if my dog did that. I have had him charge at others a few times when someone has come up behind me, i still consider that my fault, even though nothing happened as i pulled him back, but it is not good training for their dog so i have to make sure that doesnt happen

When he does get to off lead we will muzzle him because you just cant know and its not worth it

[mumof4girls]

Maybe she just needs to be told , you said its a small club , I would imagine everyone else knows to stay away.. Sometimes things that are obvious to some are not so obvious to others.. Hope Zorro is OK :-) having another dog have a go at your dog is very unsettoing..

[Dame Aussie]

What a bitch! She was at fault, it was easier and less embarrassing for her to blame it on you. Definitely report it. Hope your boy is ok.

[Salukifan]

If you know you have a reactive dog then the onus is on YOU to manage your dog, particularly when different dogs and handlers are around. Some people have real blind spots when it comes to their dog's behaviour. If that had happened at a trial, she could find herself on the end of a suspension for quite some time.

You aren't telepathic - how were you supposed to know her dog would do that? That said, I treat every dog I don't know as a potential for trouble and stay clear. If the dog left her side to snap at yours, the responsibility was all hers though.

Some people are bloody hopeless at reading their dogs and preventing trouble. And they are the ones that create issues for the rest of us. Definitely talk to the instructor but I'd cage it in "what should I have done" terms. Clubs can be funny things and as a newb, it pays to be a bit cautious about upsetting longer standing members.

[Pretty Miss Emma]

I have a reactive dog (well sometimes she is reactive, we're much better now) and it is always my responsibility to make sure that she is safe and those around her aren't bothered by her "moments". I'm lucky everyone in my training group understands her. But I always take a wide berth around other dogs, even with my super friendly Hamish because I don't know the other dog, if I see that they are approachable (which is usually through conversation with the owner!) then he can say hello. But standing in an entrance walkway with a reactive dog is just stupidity. And having them off leash (when it sounds like it wasn't a necessity at that moment), again not so clever. At agility training Kenz comes off leash when she needs to be only, because then I can manage the situation for her. Now that she is more comfortable around the other dogs I know our distances and which dogs she can be off leash around - it's just about thinking and reading other dogs.

Definitely agree with reporting it as an incident. If she didn't apologise or at least give you some sort of polite explanation then she might need a reminder from the club about the expectations of managing behaviour and manners.

[Loving my Oldies]

As the others have said: definitely report.

In all areas of life, many people will go immediately on the offensive. They seem to be incapable of even contemplating that they could be in the wrong and a simple apology is all that it needs (and, of course, an assurance that whatever it is won't happen again).

Believe me, I was a secretary for over 30 years and I could count bosses' apologies on one hand when I was blamed unfairly for others' mistakes .... mostly the bosses' - LOL.

And when it comes to dogs and children, the inability to see anyone's point but their own seems particularly prevalent.

[Little Gifts]

I had the opposite problem at training with my heart girl. She simply would not settle (think ear piercing barks) until she had 'met' all the other dogs in the room with her. I understood that two dogs (sisters) were there because they had some DA issues and that another swf hated having dogs in her face but after several weeks of the barking and her not paying attention and distracting everyone else one of the DA dogs got loose, ran over to her, said hello and the trainers realised that the best thing for all of us was to let mine say hello to the other two so we could just all get on with it.

I was terribly embarrassed but she and the DA dogs got on very well from then on so it was also quite beneficial for them. I just had to keep apologising to the lady who owned the swf who remained unimpressed that each week my dog had to come and say hello to all her new friends before we could all get down to business.

I think my dog is just nosy like her mum! :D

[zeebie]

Firstly many dogs in an agility environment become very hyped and ready for action, I have seen dogs who are the calmest most loving dog turn into a jekyll and Hyde scenario when put on an agility field with equipment and action etc.

At our club we have established ground rules for this very reason and it is a big club with many dogs and handlers and several different class structures there on same night from first night beginners through to advanced competitors etc.

Handlers are instructed that all dogs must be crated between runs and when you are walking courses or listening to instructor etc.

Any dogs who are particularly problematic ie run aways, snappers (like what happened in your case) go to a "back to basics" class with one on one or small group and do lots of motivation and control handling and must only stay on lead until proven they are once again controllable.

If for any reason a dog gets away from a handler a cry goes up "loose dog" whence everyone who might be running their dog on equipment or moving on lead between classes immediately places their dog in a down position with dog facing away from loose dog.

Another club use fluro collars with flashing light on them these are put on any dog that needs to be given room when being approached and when out on equipment all other handlers and dogs must be in a designated area, this helps to eliminate any confrontational situations and also allows these dogs to gain confidence in multi dog situations.

[fuzzy82]

How close did you pass the other dog though? Was it less than 2 metres from the dog? If so, your dog would have been attacked even if the other dog was on leash.

The dog being off leash sort of implies that she has good control over the dog, as long as everyone else gives them reasonable space. Passing within 2 metres of another dog at training is rude, IMO. Even if the dog is perfectly friendly, it's a disturbance to have other dogs walk past really close, and the passing dog may be sniffing or staring at the working dog, which isn't fair on the working dog.

I've noticed at my club, some of the newbies let their dogs walk right up to my dog and then giggle as if it's funny. I know for a fact that they're all told to ask before approaching other dogs at orientation night, yet I still have to tell them to give my dog space, and move out of the way of people who would walk right up to us to get through the gate.

So it works both ways. Her aggressive dog should definitely be on leash when not working, but other people should also be giving her and everyone else enough space to not disturb their dogs (i.e. not be within leash reach).

Edited November 8, 2012 by fuzzy82