Bonniebank Posted November 11, 2012 Author Share Posted November 11, 2012 :) nothing too drastic .. depending on the dog .. the 'ambush ' could involve water, or a loud noise ...that sort of thing..... It's usually repeated ..in a different spot .... at different times As to effectiveness ? Not sure ..we do get quite a few snakes, and we have lost dogs..... but not every dog gets a chance to be ambushed/trained ..and if a stumbled-upon snake is unhappy /challenging , then an inexperienced dog really is in trouble. Years ago, we had dogs who would kill snakes ..but that was a different time, and dogs were certainly treated differently . So am I right in thinking that the dog shouldn't know who or where the ambush comes from? or at least not let the dog know you're there until you ambush? Worth thinking this one out! Thanks Persephone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 http://www.steveaustindogtrainer.com/ Steve does it with his dogs. There's no nice way to do it with dogs and if you're going to ambush the dog at least make sure they cant smell or hear the ambusher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 I have never trained mine as such, but we have in the due course of moving around the property come in contact with snakes - they are never out without me. T o be honest I have very soft dogs, if they happent o be near a snake or even looking at one trying to figure out what it is, my reaction is to yell their name - rather loudly and strongly (imagine a human with a holy crap that snake is close kinda panic)then leave it even stronger and so far they all go holy crap and move away quickly, as do I. I then call them to me and praise them lavishly for one leaving it then two coming to me. Not sure if it is actually training them but so far they may pause but they skeddadle very quickly and we had one who would wait until the snake went over the pathway or went around it if there was one in his way. I wouldn't bet their life on it, I just hope like hell it never gets tested really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonniebank Posted November 11, 2012 Author Share Posted November 11, 2012 http://www.steveaustindogtrainer.com/ Steve does it with his dogs. There's no nice way to do it with dogs and if you're going to ambush the dog at least make sure they cant smell or hear the ambusher Thanks Nekhbet. Steve is too far away from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonniebank Posted November 11, 2012 Author Share Posted November 11, 2012 I have never trained mine as such, but we have in the due course of moving around the property come in contact with snakes - they are never out without me. T o be honest I have very soft dogs, if they happent o be near a snake or even looking at one trying to figure out what it is, my reaction is to yell their name - rather loudly and strongly (imagine a human with a holy crap that snake is close kinda panic)then leave it even stronger and so far they all go holy crap and move away quickly, as do I. I then call them to me and praise them lavishly for one leaving it then two coming to me. Not sure if it is actually training them but so far they may pause but they skeddadle very quickly and we had one who would wait until the snake went over the pathway or went around it if there was one in his way. I wouldn't bet their life on it, I just hope like hell it never gets tested really. Ours are kept in the house if we're both away. Same as you when we're home. They're with us and during the summer I don't take them in any paddocks that haven't been mown or slashed. We've had 3 bitten though in the house paddock but as we were home, got them to the vet on time. Even when they're in the garden we listen for barking and run out to see what they're barking at. Also, when we're around the farm it only takes one or two of the dogs to chase a rabbit or go around the other side of a big boulder and I'm scared they'll run into a snake. "Hoping like hell" goes on a lot here too. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyosha Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 People don't actually do things like taping snakes mouths shut and using them alive for dog training do they?! Animal welfare goes in both directions. Even if something's venomous and dangerous doesn't give anyone the right to be cruel. I'm pretty sure most dogs that got ambushed when investigating a dead snake would be more likely to become more wary of their surroundings than of snakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 I'm pretty sure most dogs that got ambushed when investigating a dead snake would be more likely to become more wary of their surroundings than of snakes. Depends if it's done in an effective way or not ..timing is everything, as is presenting the snake in different areas ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonniebank Posted November 11, 2012 Author Share Posted November 11, 2012 (edited) People don't actually do things like taping snakes mouths shut and using them alive for dog training do they?! Animal welfare goes in both directions. Even if something's venomous and dangerous doesn't give anyone the right to be cruel. I'm pretty sure most dogs that got ambushed when investigating a dead snake would be more likely to become more wary of their surroundings than of snakes. I don't know about in Australia. The videos I've seen online are from America but yes, some of the trainers do this. I'm also thinking that the more dogs that are trained not to go near snakes, the less snakes will be killed or maimed by dogs and killed by people shooting them to protect their dogs so maybe a win win situation for the dogs and the snakes?????? Edited November 11, 2012 by Bonniebank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan3 Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 People don't actually do things like taping snakes mouths shut and using them alive for dog training do they?! Animal welfare goes in both directions. Even if something's venomous and dangerous doesn't give anyone the right to be cruel. I'm pretty sure most dogs that got ambushed when investigating a dead snake would be more likely to become more wary of their surroundings than of snakes. I don't know about in Australia. The videos I've seen online are from America but yes, some of the trainers do this. I'm also thinking that the more dogs that are trained not to go near snakes, the less snakes will be killed or maimed by dogs and killed by people shooting them to protect their dogs so maybe a win win situation for the dogs and the snakes?????? Snakes maintain a territory, so killing them does nothing to protect dogs in the long run, and may in fact worsen the risk (snake who has gotten used to dogs is killed, new snake moves in). Not all trainers tape the snakes mouths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wobbly Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Just a suggestion, but why not visit the Herpetology thread in the Off Topic subforum here and ask the snake owners themselves? You might even be lucky & find someone in your area willing and able to help. Either way you will get some knowledgeable advice from people who are concerned with the welfare of both dogs and snakes. Here's a link to said thread: http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/206902-herpers-in-here/page__st__1020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonniebank Posted November 13, 2012 Author Share Posted November 13, 2012 Just a suggestion, but why not visit the Herpetology thread in the Off Topic subforum here and ask the snake owners themselves? You might even be lucky & find someone in your area willing and able to help. Either way you will get some knowledgeable advice from people who are concerned with the welfare of both dogs and snakes. Here's a link to said thread: http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/206902-herpers-in-here/page__st__1020 Thank you so much Wobbly! I'll check out the thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonniebank Posted November 13, 2012 Author Share Posted November 13, 2012 People don't actually do things like taping snakes mouths shut and using them alive for dog training do they?! Animal welfare goes in both directions. Even if something's venomous and dangerous doesn't give anyone the right to be cruel. I'm pretty sure most dogs that got ambushed when investigating a dead snake would be more likely to become more wary of their surroundings than of snakes. I don't know about in Australia. The videos I've seen online are from America but yes, some of the trainers do this. I'm also thinking that the more dogs that are trained not to go near snakes, the less snakes will be killed or maimed by dogs and killed by people shooting them to protect their dogs so maybe a win win situation for the dogs and the snakes?????? Snakes maintain a territory, so killing them does nothing to protect dogs in the long run, and may in fact worsen the risk (snake who has gotten used to dogs is killed, new snake moves in). Not all trainers tape the snakes mouths. Aiden2, I did say that only SOME of the trainers do this, not ALL. Methods can be viewed online. Your comment about snakes who are used to dogs is entirely correct. My problem isn't the snakes behaviour, it's the DOGS behaviour. I don't want to see snakes OR dogs killed so if I can train my dogs to stay away from snakes then again, it's a win win situation for both species. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Sorry can someone confirm whether K9pro does snake avoidance training (couldn't find anything on the website?) or can you recommend someone else equally as good within driving distance from Sydney (North Shore). Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonniebank Posted November 14, 2012 Author Share Posted November 14, 2012 Sorry can someone confirm whether K9pro does snake avoidance training (couldn't find anything on the website?) or can you recommend someone else equally as good within driving distance from Sydney (North Shore). Thanks Hello Aussielover. I know nothing about K9pro. I can't actually recommend anyone as I'm trying to find someone myself. I'm actually looking for someone within reasonable distance from our farm (Southern Tablelands). The only person I have heard of who does this training within reasonable distance from Sydney is Steve Austin. I do know Steve and he is a good trainer but I've never had to use him for snake avoidance training so am unable to voice an opinion one way or the other. I did receive an email from someone who does snake avoidance training at Braidwood/Bungendor (near Canberra) but I'm considering the cost as I have 9 dogs (all except 1 are rescues). Have to go to bed now. Tired from shearing, drenching and marking Angora Goats and Alpacas but will do some more checking tomorrow. Night all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparassidae Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 Anyone who tapes a snakes mouth shut whilst live is incredibly cruel. A dog can theoretically eat a snakes head without being harmed. Snake avoidance training isn't really that hard, the concept is quite basic. When you want to proof around live snakes it becomes hard as you need to look out for the welfare of the dog and the snake. I'd consider moving to a live snake only once I'd done everything I could with dead ones/scent etc. I'd also cool my snake down to slow it down. Just remember, no amount of avoidance training will prevent a bite from a snake the dog doesn't see or smell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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