dasha Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 As the title says, if you only had limited access to use the sire and you wanted to use him, which days of the cycle of the bitch would you choose to mate her. I don't have access to vets to do the hormone testing either so it is just a matter of mating and hoping for the best. Due to busy lives, access to the dogs will be limited. She is day 2 now. The options are 1) drop her off Sunday and pick her up Monday. 2) try her Thurs then Sun which would be day 11 and 14. Those days will not be able to be changed as I will be taking her to a dog trial on Thurs and not back til Sun. 3) Try a different dog and be able to have him here for a week or so to be able to access him when she is ready. 4) Use another dog that lives a lot closer that I can prob access during the week next week but not between Thurs and Sun.(day 11-14) So many decisions and any advice would be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Those days will not be able to be changed as I will be taking her to a dog trial on Thurs and not back til Sun. Not exactly fair to the dogs competing ..with her scent everywhere :p Sneaky tactic!!!! Hope there are no mishaps during that time ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 I wouldn't take her to the trial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyosha Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Definitely day 11 & 14. But I didn't think bitches in oestrum were allowed at trials? I know they're ok at most conformation shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 I usually work on between 10 - 14...or depending on the colour of discharge ... change from red to a light straw coloured .. and that's about right. I also don't think trialling her when she will be at her fertile period is wise .. for anyone .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasha Posted November 6, 2012 Author Share Posted November 6, 2012 Its a sheepdog trial so they are allowed to trial and believe it or not, people never seem to complain about their dogs not working as there is bitches around. Those dogs live and work around bitches every day and they are used to it. Obviously people are careful and not toilet their bitches at the entrance to the trial ground. The rules were changed a few years ago in favour of trialling bitches rather than not as they said people have the bitches there anyway as they are generally travelling the circuit and won't leave bitches at home for someone else to look after and risk accidents. They are safer at the trial in their cars or cages than out of the owners control. If the bitches are there anyway they may as well trial. There isn't really any accidents and complaints. She will be safely secured inside the trailer and exercised alone. The dog in option 3 is a litter brother to the preferred dog so genetically the same. So as close to the real thing. He is also a cheaper service fee!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 (edited) If the litter and using that sire was important I wouldn't go to the trial. They may be close genetically however there is a reason one is a higher service fee and first choice. Not all puppies are born equal Edited November 6, 2012 by OSoSwift Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 I'd be progesterone testing and taking her on her best day/s There will always be other trials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasha Posted November 6, 2012 Author Share Posted November 6, 2012 No more trials til March next year and have been training dogs for months to get them to this one. He is a higher service fee because his owner says she can sell pet pups for $800 with no papers so thats how much she wants. Normal working dog stud fees are $300- $500 max. The top dog in Australia was only $400. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 I'd be skipping the trial. Wouldn't matter if there was nothing else on until March. If you want to use the best dog (in your opinion) then that is what it takes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piper Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 If you really want that dog I would wait until next season if you can't get access this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diva Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 (edited) [quote name='dasha' timestamp='1352193578' post='6011490' The dog in option 3 is a litter brother to the preferred dog so genetically the same. So as close to the real thing. He is also a cheaper service fee!!! Litter brothers are not genetically the same. They may have inherited a very different combination of genes. Go to the dog you think works best for the bitch, or take the more convenient option and save a few dollars, I know which I would do. Edited November 6, 2012 by Diva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasha Posted November 6, 2012 Author Share Posted November 6, 2012 (edited) The dollars aren't the problem really. I only paid half that fee last time. She doesn't think he is good enough for breeding as he hasn't won any major trials yet. I am not keeping a pup out of the litter so sire isn't really that important to me at this point. I am not waiting til next season as I have already had people waiting for pups for months and want these people to get one as they are extremely top quality sporting homes. I just don't want to miss this season which is why I was hoping to get some ideas of which days are best or if it is too unreliable to use dog 1, I could just use brother and save the hassles. Edited November 7, 2012 by dasha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 I wouldn't have anything to do with anyone breeding unregistered Choc Borders. Does he have all his health tests - DNA for TNS, CL and CEA as well as hip and elbow scoring? I also hope your bitch is registered and has all the health tests as well. As to what day I have had dogs mate successfully any time from day 4 to 28 so she will be ready when she is ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parkeyre Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 (edited) Why are you breeding a litter which you do not plan to keep a puppy from? Edited November 6, 2012 by Parkeyre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Go for day 11 and 14 - statistically, they are the most likely, but keep checking her yourself for changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelsun Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Why are you breeding a litter which you do not plan to keep a puppy from? I've done this in the past quite a few times...the bitch needs to be bred (first litter and she's not getting any younger) others are interested in the upcoming mating for their own reasons to tie into their lines and I have what they want but it's not my path to follow exactly, Cash litter..yes that's right..and nothing wrong with it...sold the entire litter to pay for a bitch or dog that would be a better mix to my overall long term plan. Dogs were still all up on health tests, registered and such....it's not considered a 'bad breeder' to breed a litter and not keep...there are many other things at play, so implying such a thing is really assuming the breeder is 'out for profit' only, which isn't always the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piper Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Why are you breeding a litter which you do not plan to keep a puppy from? I've done this in the past quite a few times...the bitch needs to be bred (first litter and she's not getting any younger) others are interested in the upcoming mating for their own reasons to tie into their lines and I have what they want but it's not my path to follow exactly, Cash litter..yes that's right..and nothing wrong with it...sold the entire litter to pay for a bitch or dog that would be a better mix to my overall long term plan. Dogs were still all up on health tests, registered and such....it's not considered a 'bad breeder' to breed a litter and not keep...there are many other things at play, so implying such a thing is really assuming the breeder is 'out for profit' only, which isn't always the case. Agree with Angelsun here, I bred my first litter with no intention of keeping something. I n my case I am in a suburban yard and can't have too many dogs and wanted to put an extra 18 months or so of age between the 2 youngest but I did not want to breed a bitch for her first time at 5 years of age so I gave her a litter when she was 3. I can understand Dasha's reasons but based on the extra info she has now mentioned on the sire I wouldn't be using him out of principle and if the brother is still a good match and has the same health clearances then I would be inclined to use him if I could nto wait until the next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
becks Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 what happened to the 'if he is the best dog for your bitch but owned by your worst enemy, you should still try to use that dog'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasha Posted November 6, 2012 Author Share Posted November 6, 2012 Never come across that rule before Becks. I don't think there is only one dog around that would be the best for your bitch, that the beauty of having diverse lines in you breed. Plenty more fish in the sea. If its never been used before how do you know its the best. I am not keeping a pup as it would be a repeat mating. I am breeding it to supply other like minded dog people with top quality dogs bred to perform the function the breed was developed for, surely you wouldn't judge someone for that!!!!! And believe me, there is no profit made on selling working dogs for working dogs at the price they pay. The only way to make money is to supply pet homes believe me. I already kept 2 bitches from the previous litter and my friend has two other bitches from the litter. I really don't need anymore of that line. My bitch has had her heath testing done so I know what her status is. Thanks Jed for providing one of the non judgemental replies. I think thats what I will do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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