Puppies Raised Outside By Breeder

[Crisovar]

Pups can be raised outside and learn to be clean, and they can be raised outside and not confined exclusively in kennels. Pups do not need to be brought inside a house to socialise them, many people spend the majority of their days outside out and about doing things especially if they have a number of animals to tend to.

Good Breeders go to great lengths to ensure they raise pups with an excellent start, and these sort of Breeders are the ones you want, where the pups are raised is of little importance.

eta I have purchased pups from both house raised and kennel raised litters with no problems.

Edited November 5, 2012 by Crisovar

[Simply Grand]

The litter Quinn, my 1 year old Aussie Shepherd, is from were raised outside. There were 7 pups, they had a good set up with kennel/sleeping area, covered outdoor area, larger run area and then access to the back garden most of the day when the breeder was home (he was home with pups out and running around most of the time).

All the pups are pets, although some shown and in sports, some are now outside only dogs, some (like Quinn) have access inside as well. As far as I know, all have turned out to be just fine behaviour and temperament wise. I know Quinn (obviously) and one sister quite well, and did puppy school with her brother from 9-12 weeks and can say from that personal experience that they are stable, confident dogs, comfortable around people and other dogs.

Agree with everyone else that in or outside is definitely not the only important criterion, but I don't think pups living outside is in and of itself a problem for pet puppies.

[Simply Grand]

Oh, re toilet training, when I brought Quinn home she definitely had a strong instinct not to toilet in her sleeping area, from the beginning they had access to the covered area outside the sleeping kennel for toileting, and I'm pretty sure once they got "older" (in baby puppy terms) they would try to copy their mum and hold to go on the grass in the back yard once they were let out. Quinn went backwards once I had her at home because she didn't have as free access to the grass at my house, though she was very good with crate training because she was so reluctant to pee in her sleeping area.

Edited November 5, 2012 by Simply Grand

[SkySoaringMagpie]

Agree that inside and outside can both be sub-optimal or fine.

However, if I were after a primarily indoors companion I would be concerned about toilet training and whether the breeders' dogs had ever been observed living inside as family pets. There's a lot you can deal with more easily in kennels that you can't manage anywhere near as easily inside a normal family home.

EFS

Edited November 5, 2012 by SkySoaringMagpie

[espinay2]

IMO toilet training can sometimes be just as much an issue with inside dogs, particularly if the pups have been allowed to toilet indoors in the puppy pen/whelping area as they can get used to toileting on that surface or the bedding in the whelping box. This can sometimes make an inside raised pup harder to toilet train. As mentioned it really depends on how they are managed not where they are. The situation Dunbar mentions is about raising a litter in isolation without stimuli. That certainly is not good but i do not agree with his blanket lumping of all dogs raised in a room or building that is not the kitchen or living room as brong no good for pets. I know of litters raised outside (garage or shed) which are provided with excellent stimuli in a wonderful setup for pups. These pups raised this way have gone on to be well loved pets, grand champion show dogs, hold agility, obedience and other performance titles, have been on stage in the theatre and are all round great dogs. Not being physically raised in the breeders house has certainly not affected them negatively.

Edited November 5, 2012 by espinay2

[Simply Grand]

Yep espinay, of my 3 (2 boys raised inside, Quinn outside) Quinn definitely had the strongest instinct for toileting on grass and not anywhere else. She regressed at my house because of my lazy toilet training.

OP, not that I think any of us are saying toilet training is hugely important, I think most would agree that health, temperament and ethical breeding are more important than easy toilet training :)

[Diva]

One of mine came from a breeder who has no dogs inside.

She was easy to toilet train, has always been scrupulously clean, very social and outgoing, and pretty well bomb proof.

[dasha]

I have bred 2 litters of Border Collie Pups and they were born and raised OUTSIDE and born in June last year.

The bitches have a garden shed divided in half with a whelping area and plenty of room around the bed to get around and about.

There is a light in there and I did put a heater in at night as it gets below zero here. Even with the heater, inside got down to 1 degree at times.

The pups got used to noises of shed doors opening, slamming shut, lawnmowers driving past their door, other dogs barking. They also got used to the sound of thunder storms, loud rain on a tin roof (sounds that inside puppies are often sheltered from) the sound of a hose washing next to their bedding. They also has sun coming in the door and so they could learn about the sun for warmth and shade for cool.

Once they were mobile, the door would be opened and they could go down a step to the grass and they would roll around on the grass while I hosed their shed. Even if it was raining, they were taken outside. The shed floor was concrete with paper on some parts and then there was grass outside.

My nieces would often come to visit as they are young and they regularly were mauled in play by the pups. Their shoes were never the same. I had a plastic chair in the shed all the time so they could play under it etc and also so the kids could stand on it to get away from the puppies. I also have friends with kids and they would also come to show the kids the pups.

Once the pups could walk around a bit they would have a turn at coming inside while we watched TV and get put on the slippery cork floor to slide around on to get used to it and the inside sounds. At about 4-5 weeks, they would get a car trip one at a time with one of the other dogs in a cage in the ute to get used to the movement of cars and sounds of traffic. We live in a semi rural area so not heavy traffic at all. If I was just driving down the road to the shop, or a quick trip, I would put one in for the drive. One of my kelpies was the travel companion as she loves pups and was trying to mother them the whole time and she is a great traveller so she looked after them.

One they got to be about 5-6 weeks old, the 2 litters were combined into a stable during the day to mix and play. They had to follow me down the hill past the pool and horse paddocks to get there but thats when they learned a recall and to follow people. There was also a retaining wall they had to work out how to get down the low end. They ran on the gravel driveway and on the grass. In there stable they had wooden boards and a kennel to play in (or destroy). Some would learn to climb up on top of it to keep the treasure from the others. Others slept in it or they just used it as a roundabout. There was a ramp they could play on and under and got used to any surfaces both rough and smooth, stable and unstable. It was just part of their life.

Each person that got a pup all commented on how well adjusted they were and didn't make a sound at their new homes even on the first night. They had grown up being used to being put in pens and crying doesn't get them anywhere, got used to going new places both with their mother or litters or also by themselves and they had NO problem adjusting to being inside and outside dogs, toilet training was no issue for them either.

My next litter will be born in January in summer so they will have a different start as the shed gets too hot in the day. But the place they sleep will be outside and nothing else will change.

Best advice is to go and check them out individually and their dogs.

Even the best socialised puppy can still have behavioural issues if the genetics aren't their. If there is nervousness in any of the parents it will prob be there with the pups no matter how well it is socialised.

[dancinbcs]

IMO toilet training can sometimes be just as much an issue with inside dogs, particularly if the pups have been allowed to toilet indoors in the puppy pen/whelping area as they can get used to toileting on that surface or the bedding in the whelping box. This can sometimes make an inside raised pup harder to toilet train. As mentioned it really depends on how they are managed not where they are. The situation Dunbar mentions is about raising a litter in isolation without stimuli. That certainly is not good but i do not agree with his blanket lumping of all dogs raised in a room or building that is not the kitchen or living room as brong no good for pets. I know of litters raised outside (garage or shed) which are provided with excellent stimuli in a wonderful setup for pups. These pups raised this way have gone on to be well loved pets, grand champion show dogs, hold agility, obedience and other performance titles, have been on stage in the theatre and are all round great dogs. Not being physically raised in the breeders house has certainly not affected them negatively.

Agreed, the only litter I ever had any trouble with toilet training was a litter of three born during a prolonged heatwave and they had to be kept indoors in the aircon for most of the 8 weeks. The outside litters basically toilet train themselves by going away from their sleeping area, out onto the grass and continue to go out to a grass if they are then moved to sleep indoors when there is only one left. I cannot even comprehend all the poo in the morning from a 6-8 week old litter of 6 or more BCs being in the house, let alone a bigger breed.

[JulesP]

My current dogs were raised outside and are embarrassingly friendly. No issues with toilet training either. They are no different to the previous ones that were raised in a house.

[Steve]

I have Maremma and they all come inside to whelp even the ones which have been working since they were 6 weeks old and which have never been house trained. Not once not ever have they gone to the toot in the house .They hang around like white rats blind and deaf until they begin to move around and at around three weeks when they are on the move and beginning to be interested in real food I move them onto my very large porch which adjoins my kitchen where I get to trip over them and sit with them at my feet and they hear the house noises etc. When they begin to do poos their mum isnt interested in cleaning up for about 4 or 5 days I have to watch where I walk and I find some little poos on the porch .By the time they are 6 weeks old they would never consider doing a poo or a wee on the porch and every day as they get older they go further and further out to go to the toot. In all puppies it is a natural instinct to move away from where they sleep to go to the toot and if your breeder has them in a shed as long as they can come and go training a LGD is easy in comparison to many breeds as their instinct is stronger to go out as this is how they work - by marking around the boundary of their yard. Its what stops predators from coming in.The older dogs will blow up before they go to the toot in the house or even if Ive had to have them in a pen for a few hours. I have no desire to have a dozen poo factories in my home and

Any breeder who can live with a dozen large breed puppies [ poo factories] inside their home as they grow free range is better than me and if they are enclosed in a pen they cant get out to go to the toot and have no choice than to poo where they sleep which will become bad habit and over ride the natural instinct .

Between 6 and 8 weeks they grow like weeds. I like to have deposits on mine when they are really young because I know then which ones will go to a pet home and which will go to working homes.Im not doing a pup any favours which will leave here at 8 weeks to go to Tassie and be in a paddock all its life if I keep them inside in air con or heating and send them off to an alien life with no creature comforts. Depending on where they are going and what they will be working with I expose them to that species .The ones which are going home as pets I bring into the house and give them more cuddles and replicate for the last week what they will be going home to. If they are going to be pets and live and sleep inside able to come and go at will then thats what they do before they go home just as if they will be working with sheep, goats or chickens by the time they go home they are with that species and get less human time.

Some LGD breeders believe they should not be handled as this will interupt the bonding process when they go home .Its my experience that it really makes little difference. Part of their uniqueness is that they can come into any situation at 8 weeks whether they have seen it before or not , work out the rules ad whats normal in a heat beat and do their job. Just as they work out quickly in a paddock what is normal when they are with sheep they work out what is normal in their new homes and I have them on my porch more for my benefit than theirs.

So as long as they can get out to go to the toot and at various times they are able to run , explore , play and know humans what is normal in your home will be sorted without a problem. Bit harder if they are older but at 8 weeks its a breeze .

[Steve]

this one is 6 weeks old - going home to a pet home with kids so I recruited the grandkids . But can you imagine 13 of these in my lounge room ? The cleaner would go on strike

[smisch]

everyone does it differently I know of a breeder who lives by herself not sure if she has too many visitors but we were talking and she raises her pups infront of the TV in the main area.of the house so they can see and hear everything.

my OH and I have talked about how we would raise a litter as its just us in a quiet house and normally we both work full time, our plan is a CD of sounds played so different things that pups may not get to hear in this time with us like storms. we also have plans to let the neices and nephews come visit and take the pups out once they are old enough to see the world.. just little things like that.

I think being raised outside isn't an issue providing the pups still get to be exposed to and hear the everyday noises.

[dasha]

I agree with the pups will instinctively move away from their eating/sleeping area to go to the toilet.

They certainly start his from an ear,y age. Watching then climb out of bed, drag themselves away from everything then pee or poop, then come racing back to wrestle another is so funny.

Like Steve said, as long as pups whether they are outside or inside kennelled, have somewhere to go to the toilet, the rest of it is just developed as they move to new homes etc.

So they just need a big enough area that they can do this.

[Dree]

Thanks everyone for the great tips on what to look out for when I visit the breeder and for sharing your firsthand experiences. Thank you, in particular, to the breeders - Dasha and Steve - for taking the time to write such informative and detailed posts. Anyone would be lucky to have a puppy from either of you.

I asked the breeder about toilet training in an e-mail. They said that the puppies aren’t crated whilst they’re with them, but the outbuilding is large enough for them to have a very distinct/separate area to eliminate in.

This will be my first puppy from a registered breeder - my previous dogs were adult rescues - so I've been going a little overboard on researching where to get a puppy, who to get a puppy from, how to know if someone is a good breeder, etc., and taking things (e.g. Dunbar's comments) too literally. There's so much information out there on how to raise the 'perfect' puppy that it's hard not to get caught up in all of the advice and feel like a monster for deviating from it, even slightly.

Thanks again for all of your help. :)

[Steve]

Thanks everyone for the great tips on what to look out for when I visit the breeder and for sharing your firsthand experiences. Thank you, in particular, to the breeders - Dasha and Steve - for taking the time to write such informative and detailed posts. Anyone would be lucky to have a puppy from either of you.

I asked the breeder about toilet training in an e-mail. They said that the puppies aren't crated whilst they're with them, but the outbuilding is large enough for them to have a very distinct/separate area to eliminate in.

This will be my first puppy from a registered breeder - my previous dogs were adult rescues - so I've been going a little overboard on researching where to get a puppy, who to get a puppy from, how to know if someone is a good breeder, etc., and taking things (e.g. Dunbar's comments) too literally. There's so much information out there on how to raise the 'perfect' puppy that it's hard not to get caught up in all of the advice and feel like a monster for deviating from it, even slightly.

Thanks again for all of your help. :)

Well if its a Maremma throw the book away .Raising a LGD is not the same as other breeds.

[Wobbly]

My dog had obviously never been in house before I got her.

Watching her fist encounter with various household objects was often pretty comical. Defintiely some milestones in a dog's life worth being present for.

"ZOMG Mirror dog smells like glass, and disappears when I run round behind said mirror for further investigations."

"Carpet is no good for burying pigs ears, I just can't seem to get a good hole going no matter how persistent I am with it. Couch cushions however, provide fantastic spots for burying treasure."

Convincing her that the vacuum cleaner is not a prey item made vacuuming fairly onerous for a while there. I had to stop moving the vacuum cleaner every time she tried to pounce on it till she finally realised that this particular beast is no fun to play with at all.

I think of all the things the surround sound TV speakers blew her mind most. That furrowed brow and quizzical head tilting from one side to the other was just too cute.

There are some really appealing upsides to an outside dog's first introduction to an indoor life. XD

[minimax]

My dog had obviously never been in house before I got her.

Watching her fist encounter with various household objects was often pretty comical. Defintiely some milestones in a dog's life worth being present for.

"ZOMG Mirror dog smells like glass, and disappears when I run round behind said mirror for further investigations."

"Carpet is no good for burying pigs ears, I just can't seem to get a good hole going no matter how persistent I am with it. Couch cushions however, provide fantastic spots for burying treasure."

Convincing her that the vacuum cleaner is not a prey item made vacuuming fairly onerous for a while there. I had to stop moving the vacuum cleaner every time she tried to pounce on it till she finally realised that this particular beast is no fun to play with at all.

I think of all the things the surround sound TV speakers blew her mind most. That furrowed brow and quizzical head tilting from one side to the other was just too cute.

There are some really appealing upsides to an outside dog's first introduction to an indoor life. XD

My puppies were raised inside and still had those same reactions to household objects My 7 month old pug still gets puzzled and excited over Mirror Pug!

[mixeduppup]

The first day I brought Maybe my rescue kelpie inside was rather hilarious. The phone rang and I swear she acted like she was shot, hit the floor and froze. Poor girl, she's fine with it now. The printer still has her running to the lounge room though. :laugh:

[BJean]

Hi all,

In several months' time, I'm thinking about getting a puppy from a breeder who raises the litter outside of the family home, in an outbuilding.

Given that the puppy will be from a guardian breed, which generally require more socialisation (particularly with humans) than, for example, gundog breeds, is this an unwise decision?

I've read Ian Dunbar and Gwen Bailey's books on raising a well-behaved and well-adjusted dog. Both, particularly Dunbar, caution against getting a puppy that was raised exclusively in an outbuilding, kennel, etc.

The breeder did mention that the puppies will receive lots of handling, and will be socialised by meeting visitors and being exposed to their adult dogs.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts. :)

If you are not well versed in raising puppies, I don't understand why you doubt the efficacy of puppy-raising technique of the breeder you've chosen to get your puppy from.

Sometimes you have to afford yourself and your choice of breeder, with having the smarts to know well what it is they are doing.

This will be my first puppy from a registered breeder - my previous dogs were adult rescues - so I've been going a little overboard on researching where to get a puppy, who to get a puppy from, how to know if someone is a good breeder, etc., and taking things (e.g. Dunbar's comments) too literally. There's so much information out there on how to raise the 'perfect' puppy that it's hard not to get caught up in all of the advice and feel like a monster for deviating from it, even slightly.

Yes. Steve's advice was spot on. Throw out the books.

The difficulty in raising puppies is not the act itself, but finding your own calm, common sense approach, that is free from all the noise and PC complication.

Edited November 7, 2012 by lilli