Amstaff Vs Sbt

[kima]

Funny you say that, my Stafford Marlo ran away from the esky and hid under the dining room table the first time we brought it out.

Definitely NOT tough :p

[Salukifan]

A further question:

If looking for a SBT, can i search Australia-wide or am i best off sticking to Victorian breeders?

Thanks guys

Given the importance of solid temperament in this breed and the fact that it's not rare, I'd suggest you stick to breeders and litters you can visit.

And do yourself a favour and DON'T buy a blue Stafford. They're NOT rare, they shouldn't cost more than other colours and the colour comes with health issues. Responsible SBT breeders do NOT breed for this colour.

Edited November 5, 2012 by Haredown Whippets

[juice]

Run a mile if you see an ad with any of the following.

Massive heads or rare blue colour :)

[Staffyluv]

Run a mile if you see an ad with any of the following.

Massive heads or rare blue colour :)

Or the word 'English' any where near the words Staffordshire Bull Terrier...

Edited November 5, 2012 by Staffyluv

[Roova]

I was reading this thread with interest and after the last couple of comments on what not to look for in a puppy I had a look at the puppy listing on DOL. There's 54 advertisements (wow!) and it seems every second one has either blue puppies or the breeder has blue/blu somewhere in their name. I noticed one ad. saying they had blue English staffordshire bullterrier puppies.

Does that mean those coming on DOL to look for reputable breeders are going to find less than ideal litters to choose from?

Is it the blue colour genetics which causes health problems or is it because breeders aiming for blue may not be factoring health into the equation? Some with blue litters state they test for various heridary problems - are there other health worries with blue puppies? Sorry for all the questions but one more..why is blue part of the standard if the colour can cause health issues? From what I can see its stated "Black and tan or liver colour highly undesirable", why isn't blue mentioned?

The puppies are the cutest...little chunky monkeys!

Edited November 5, 2012 by Roova

[Staffyluv]

Roova I will let the more experienced and knowledgable breeders answer about the genetic side of things for you, as I am not a breeder but just a lover of the breed.

From my experience, every second blue pup/dog I have come across cost the owners a fortune and has some sort of allergy of the skin..

They are not worth more than any other well bred Stafford pup because of their colour but until people stop paying these ridiculous prices for a colour then they get everything they deserve...

My old Stafford had skin allergies and ended up with Mast Cell Tumours. I read a web page (and i will try to find it but it was years ago), where the writer believed there was a link between allergic dogs and MCT as MCT is on the rise along with the amount of dogs with allergies.. Also MCT release histamine, the same thing that allergic dogs release when they come into contact with things that they react to...

There are a great number of health tests that can be done and if you are breeding dogs that could be prone to these issues then you should be testing for everything.. I would expect this would be very expensive, perhaps that is how some justify the cost..

However, these days Blue is not rare, there are so many of them.

We met a 6 month old blue girl that her new owners had walked from one side of town to the other, then she played with my boy for half an hour or so before they walked her home again.. To top it off, all they could talk about was finding a blue boy to give her a blue litter when she is ready..

She was a very pretty pup and I tried to educate them about breeding blue to blue and that the breeders I have spoken to would never do that but the guy was pretty adamant that he knew about it all..

However we have loads of great breeders and they do the right thing by the breed...

[booge]

I wouldn't describe Boxer temperament as being like the other two breeds.

What sort of temperament DO you like in a dog - can you describe it?

Hard question to answer, but I'll try. I like a (dare I say it) "masculine' type dog, I like the appearance of a muscular dog and I like a dog that is willing to defend it's owner and property.

In terms of temperament, I would say I prefer a dog that is CAPABLE of holding it's own in a fight, but takes a lot of pushing to do so. I'd like to think a stranger could approach me and my dog and be able to pat it.

i hope that helps !

Cheers

Sorry, but after reading this post, I don't think any Bull Breed or large breed is for you.

[megan_]

DOL adverts are for registered breeders - doesn't mean they're ethical or go any sort of health testing. In some states all it takes to register is to Kay a fee and then breed any two main registered dogs of the same breed together.

[booge]

I know with my boxer, he's very good at defending the property, he's bailed up the meter reader before! Just backed him into a corner and stood imposingly in front of him. Wasn't growling or aggressive at all but did his job well. As far as holding his own in a fight....i understand what you're saying, my dog could, but it just causes you problems if it does happen and i do everything i can to avoid that situation. At our dog park he's only off lead when we're alone, if other dogs turn up we're on lead or just leave. He's not aggressive but enjoys rough play which has caused scuffles in the past and I've had dog owners yell at me because he seems quite imposing. His idea of a greeting is run up and stand tall chest puffed out, if the dog wants to play he's great but if not that's when there's a problem.

My Boxer boy is quite aloof with strangers when out and about. If someone comes through the park when he's off lead he'll never want a pat, he'll keep his distance and maybe circle them a few times before moving in for a closer look. Good trait for a guarding breed. If you come to my house, he'll sound like the guard dog from hell at the door, but once you're accepted inside he'll drive you insane with licking and won't leave you alone. Very energetic, smart when HE chooses, but a very frustrating breed I've found. Hard to keep them focussed. They take quite a bit of work. Hope that helps. I'm considering Amstaff for our next dog so this is a very interesting thread.

Edited November 5, 2012 by booge

[Staff'n'Mutt]

Have you thought about not getting a pup? but getting a grown dog? Diva is a retired show girl She's 3 and yeah she can be a right bitch with other dogs but then she loves others. Just the same as people we don't all love each other and get along so why should our dogs. (flame retardant suit duly donned)

Not saying this because her breeder is on this forum and has replied in this thread.

But. Diva is a perfect fit for our family, we have little kids one with special needs he has fallen on her twice now and she just moves away from him. by fall I do mean she's under him when he lands. I take her for the walks / runs/ jogs and she's great. We're doing Obd classes and Agility she loves both.

She loves people like there is no tomorrow and I'm pretty sure the only injury to anyone breaking into the house would be when they tripped over her in the dark as she angled herself in front of them for a better patting position.

Our last pup was also a SBT . . . however . . . she was not from a breeder I'd ever deal with again and had so many allergies she ended up blistering up just walking outside to wee on the grass. moral of the story Find a reputable Breeder.

Come join the Stafford Fan thread join in and lean what these clowns dogs are like on a day to day basis

[juice]

I think a boxer sounds more for you, they still look a bit intimidating when full grown, or a very well bred staffy would suit.

You could go older as suggested, would cut out the destruction faze, and you can't jog with a pup either.

I too got my BT as an ex breeding dog at 3yrs old and would go that route again .

[dancinbcs]

I was reading this thread with interest and after the last couple of comments on what not to look for in a puppy I had a look at the puppy listing on DOL. There's 54 advertisements (wow!) and it seems every second one has either blue puppies or the breeder has blue/blu somewhere in their name. I noticed one ad. saying they had blue English staffordshire bullterrier puppies.

Does that mean those coming on DOL to look for reputable breeders are going to find less than ideal litters to choose from?

Is it the blue colour genetics which causes health problems or is it because breeders aiming for blue may not be factoring health into the equation? Some with blue litters state they test for various heridary problems - are there other health worries with blue puppies? Sorry for all the questions but one more..why is blue part of the standard if the colour can cause health issues? From what I can see its stated "Black and tan or liver colour highly undesirable", why isn't blue mentioned?

The puppies are the cutest...little chunky monkeys!

The breed standards were written before anyone understood genetics and while blue is in the breed standard it also states that the nose must be black and that is genetically impossible, so no blue can meet the breed standard. They need to either include a blue nose or get rid of the colour entirely but getting a standard changed is very difficult. In many but not all breeds the dilute gene causes skin issues as well and SBTs are one of the worst affected, especially when they breed just for the colour rather than for any sort of quality.

The breeders in the DOL listings have registered dogs but a lot are very shonky. I would not recommend 75% of the Border Collie breeders with litters listed on there. I'm sure it is the same for other popular breeds.

[Sandra777]

Does that mean those coming on DOL to look for reputable breeders are going to find less than ideal litters to choose from?

Absolutely. No different to any other popular breed advertised here. Unfortunately the criteria for advertising on DOL aren't very strict and equally nfortunately a lot of puppy farmers & BYB have cottoned on to the fact that DOL is perceived to be a good place to look for puppies. As already mentioned, anyone using english and staffordshire bull terrier in close proximity needs to be avoided at all costs.

Is it the blue colour genetics which causes health problems or is it because breeders aiming for blue may not be factoring health into the equation?

Some of each. Blue is a dilute - google dilute alopecia for more information on the problems that can cause all by itself. Also blue is a recessive so to be sure to produce a whole litter of blues and so maximise profit, people will mate dogs together because they are blue, not because they are correct, healthy Staffords. I have met three blues in the flesh I would consider to be good examples of the breed - one in Australia and 2 in the UK. More than 1/2 the pups registered in BOTH the UK and Australia are blue, so that's a seriously poor ratio!

Some with blue litters state they test for various heridary problems - are there other health worries with blue puppies?

Yes, you can buy a blue puppy which is dna clear of L2-HGA & HC - that leaves half a million other problems for which there are no dna tests so really means nothing. Badly bred Staffords are very prone to allergies and skin problems - this is part and parcel of the badly bred portion of the breed and blues certainly aren't immune. A lot of Staffords are now very timid - genetically so not because of early upbringing, lack of training etc. Ethical breeders would never breed from a dog with a poor temperament. If the dog is blue these standards are often thrown out - because the dog is blue. A Stafford is an athletic, active dog. Many poorly bred Staffords have straight stifles, sagging toplines, overdone shoulders and massive heads more suitable for a Bullmastiff. Many blue Stafford display all these poor conformational traits.

why is blue part of the standard if the colour can cause health issues? From what I can see its stated "Black and tan or liver colour highly undesirable", why isn't blue mentioned?

Because when blue was included in the breed standard nothing was known about dilute alopecia, and also because it was always assumed people breeding Staffords would know not to breed from dogs with horrendous skin issues, appalling conformation and incorrect temperament. The standard isn't the last and final word on the breed - afterall no where in the standard does it explicitly state that the dog needs to have four legs, it is assumed that the basics are understood.

Black & Tan and Liver being undesirable are because these colours are not wanted in the breed. The COLOUR is not the major issue with blue....