Amstaff Vs Sbt

[jamie231]

hey guys,

I'm just wanting a bit of help answering this query if anyone out there has had experience with these two breeds.

I'm very used to english staffords having lived with one for the last two years, but now I am moving house and the dog actually belonged to my friend and his fiance (it was getting a bit you, me and dupree there towards the end!). so i had to leave Duke behind. although i still visit him a lot !

I will be getting my own dog when the timing suits (heading away for a couple of months for some travel over xmas). When I get home I want to get myself either a SBT or an american staff. this will be early in the new year.

A bit about myself; I'm a 27yo dentist currently doing some extra study to specialise so my timetable is a bit all over the place, but it would be fair to say ill be away from home between the hours of 9-4 or so each day during the weekdays, although there are two other guys im moving in with who are students and there will usually be someone home.

the house we have found has a fully contained back yard with plenty of shade etc, no worries there, the house itself has wooden floors and is not in danger of getting too wrecked by a dog. there is a dog park nearby.

i love to keep fit and active and one of the main things I am looking for in a dog is a companion to go for walks every day with. i want a dog that is very steady around other dogs and people, but above all else a best mate and loyal companion. I have no concerns asserting dominance over a staffy and am used to doing so with duke when we go for runs. a stable temperament is a must for me. duke has always been exemplary in this regard. he likes to test who is the alpha male every now and then, but is very repectful when i have to reprimand him. he is able to go off leash when we go to the park and i trust him in doing so. never had any issues with anybody/any other dogs (occasional playfights that have to be broken up, usual stuff)

i really would just appreciate anyone spitballing some ideas/personal experience etc, i really appreciate any recommendations. some of the questions I have are:

- male vs. female? any notable dfferences in behaviour here?

- are amstaffs a LOT bigger? (duke is around 25kgs and i wouldnt want too much heavier than that ideally...). the ones ive seen around all seem to vary quite a bit.

- which of the breeds would heads wiser than mine reccommed, based on my personality, lifestyle, etc?)

thanks so much, the forum is really useful. if anyone has any questions shoot away.

jamie

[sheena]

I may be wrong here...but I thought that you were not allowed to have those breeds in Victoria

[Dame Aussie]

Hi Jamie,

Welcome!

I love both breeds! Re size, Staffords are smaller than Amstaffs, but not by too much, Amstaffs have longer legs too so are taller.

From my experience their temps are very similar. They do need to be well socialised as puppies so things like puppy pre school, and controlled meetings with other friendly known dogs are essential. Sex wise, I have found boys to be much smoochier and girls a bit more cheeky, but both lovely. They are very human focussed so need all of your attention when you are with them.

From your lifestyle I honestly think either breed would be fine. I don't know how much you know about Breed Specific Legislation (?) but in VIC any bull breed without papers can be seized, so once you've decided on breed, make sure to find a good registered breeder who does all the necessary health tests etc and gives you pedigree papers.

I'm sure there will be loads of others with advice too, but let us know how you go with your decision!! :)

[Dame Aussie]

I may be wrong here...but I thought that you were not allowed to have those breeds in Victoria

Staffordshire Bull Terriers and American Staffordshire Terriers are allowed, if they have papers. It is American Pit Bull Terriers or unpapered bull breed mixes which are in danger.

[megan_]

Pedigreed amstaffs are allowed in Vic, not pedigreed aren't.

Is going to the dog park important to you? All the responsible breeders of those two breeds that I've met have all said they're not suitable for the dog park.

[Animal House]

Firstly, it's great you want to do the research. :)

Being in Vic, whichever one you decide upon, make ABSOLUTELY SURE they have pedigree papers, as the new dangerous dog laws in Victoria are well and truly in force...meaning any bull breed (or their cross) that fits the criteria can be seized and destroyed. So buying from a registered breeder and having the pedigree papers is important in that regard.

Temperament is another, as well as health.

Personally Id go with a Staffordshire BT, a male, and probably look for an older puppy/young dog....unless you specifically want a puppy.I think males get on better with other dogs, bitches are aptly named. :laugh:

Edited November 4, 2012 by Cazablanca

[jamie231]

Pedigreed amstaffs are allowed in Vic, not pedigreed aren't.

Is going to the dog park important to you? All the responsible breeders of those two breeds that I've met have all said they're not suitable for the dog park.

thanks guys,

1) pedigree'd; no worries here I will be buying from a local reputable breeder.

2) yes, ging to the park would be really great, although I can organise my hours ot go when it is less busy. that surprises me to hear that as the place where I usually go with duke (richmond), has quite a few staffies that i have come to know over the last two years, a few americans/english, and a few resident bull terriers as well !

[Cosmolo]

While it's possible to have individuals within both breeds that are good at the dog park, it is NOT what would be recommended and not really typical though i think your chances are slightly better with a SBT than an am staff. If you want a dog social dog these aren't the breeds i'd start with. If not being around other dogs alot or not being off lead with other dogs, not being off lead with strange dogs are all things you're willing to live with, then these two breeds certainly suit the rest of your criteria.

[Clyde]

I'm very used to english staffords having lived with one for the last two years, but now I am moving house and the dog actually belonged to my friend and his fiance (it was getting a bit you, me and dupree there towards the end!). so i had to leave Duke behind. although i still visit him a lot !

(duke is around 25kgs and i wouldnt want too much heavier than that ideally...).

Are you sure? That sounds enormous. I think my girl is around the 14-16 kgs mark Im sure they vary between sexes but 25 kgs sounds way over. I could be wrong,

[sheena]

Pedigreed amstaffs are allowed in Vic, not pedigreed aren't.

Is going to the dog park important to you? All the responsible breeders of those two breeds that I've met have all said they're not suitable for the dog park.

thanks guys,

1) pedigree'd; no worries here I will be buying from a local reputable breeder.

2) yes, ging to the park would be really great, although I can organise my hours ot go when it is less busy. that surprises me to hear that as the place where I usually go with duke (richmond), has quite a few staffies that i have come to know over the last two years, a few americans/english, and a few resident bull terriers as well !

Just make sure your local reputable breeder is a "registered" breeder, registered with ANKC not just the council or some other body. You will need to get either "Mains" or "Limited" Registration papers with him from the ANKC.

Edited November 4, 2012 by sheena

[jamie231]

well, i have to admit that is second hand information from nick (his owner), that figure was given upon his last return from the vet.

but he is certainly very bulky around the chest and has filled out heaps recently. i pick him up sometimes, attached to the other end of his rubber toy and i cant hold him up with out-stretched hands, I have to draw him in closer to myself so at a guess easily over 20kgs, yeah :-)

thanks everybody for your interest and comments !

[Staffyluv]

I'm very used to english staffords having lived with one for the last two years, but now I am moving house and the dog actually belonged to my friend and his fiance (it was getting a bit you, me and dupree there towards the end!). so i had to leave Duke behind. although i still visit him a lot !

(duke is around 25kgs and i wouldnt want too much heavier than that ideally...).

Are you sure? That sounds enormous. I think my girl is around the 14-16 kgs mark Im sure they vary between sexes but 25 kgs sounds way over. I could be wrong,

From memory a full grown male Stafford is about 15-18kg (obviously varying a bit depending on fitness and breeding lines)... Girls are smaller, again, just from memory, about 11-14kg.. Hopefully a breeder will see this and set this right if I am wrong.

Ollie was really big for a Stafford and he weighed in at about 21kg . The other Staffords over the years:

Zac, entire male 17kg

Ellie, desexed female 15kg (she was a tub of lard and used to just hang with mum all the time..

Bella desexed female, was always about 13kg

Paddy, desexed male about 16kg.. He was actually quite a little guy.

Louis, entire male was a hefty 15kg.. Again he was a little guy.

I have Ziggy now (staffy or amstaff cross, unknown heritage) at 18 months he is pretty fit and weighs in at 26kg this week..

I have seen some grossly humongous Staffords over the years.. I remember going to a dogs day out with Ollie when he was a little tacker and seeing these Staffords that had to be 30kg, they were huge, big, chunky dogs... Not at all like the Staffords we had grown up with o we the years...

[melzawelza]

While it's possible to have individuals within both breeds that are good at the dog park, it is NOT what would be recommended and not really typical though i think your chances are slightly better with a SBT than an am staff. If you want a dog social dog these aren't the breeds i'd start with. If not being around other dogs alot or not being off lead with other dogs, not being off lead with strange dogs are all things you're willing to live with, then these two breeds certainly suit the rest of your criteria.

Yes, if going to the dog park is really important to you, and you'd be really, really unhappy if you couldn't then none of the bull breeds are for you. Many turn out to be fine at dog parks but many also don't, so you'd have to be prepared to assess your dog as it grows and give up the dog parks if he or she becomes unsuitable.

I'm very used to english staffords having lived with one for the last two years, but now I am moving house and the dog actually belonged to my friend and his fiance (it was getting a bit you, me and dupree there towards the end!). so i had to leave Duke behind. although i still visit him a lot !

(duke is around 25kgs and i wouldnt want too much heavier than that ideally...).

Are you sure? That sounds enormous. I think my girl is around the 14-16 kgs mark Im sure they vary between sexes but 25 kgs sounds way over. I could be wrong,

25kg is the kind of weight I'd expect from an Amstaff... but people are breeding BOTH breeds way oversize. If you went a well bred, pedigree Amstaff it's likely to be about that weight.

[Jade~Harley~Bella]

I don't have much experience with Staffords, but own to AmStaffs so can help you with them.

In my opinion AmStaffs do not respond well with the whole "Dominance alpha male" way of thinking. The best training method is reward based training. They are fairly intelligent and do need continuous training.

Both of my dogs are alone between 7.30 - 4.30-5.30 Monday to Friday and they do fine, but I leave bones etc for them during the day. We are on acreage so one walk a day is also plenty exercise wise. When we only had Harley in a small yard, he destroyed it though being alone in the day.

If you go for an AmStaff make sure your breeder is breeding for temperament not looks. It will make a difference with the dog when it is older. Also starting socialisation from as early as possible (8 weeks when you get the pup) is important as they are more susceptible to dog aggression. In some cases no amount of socialisation will help stop aggression.

Male v female is all personal preference. I find Harley to be more laid back and happy to just chill where as Bella always needs to be doing something, she is a naughty little witch of a dog! lol I don't like the way males have to pee on everything and are territorial etc so I'll stick with females from now on.

AmStaff Breed Standard says:

The American Staffordshire Terrier should give the impression of great strength for his size, a well put-together dog, muscular, but agile and graceful, keenly alive to his surroundings. He should be stocky, not long-legged or racy in outline. His courage is proverbial.

Harley weights around 29kg, breed standard says between 28-40kg so I wouldn't call them small. They do make fantastic pets, so long as you keep up with training, exercise and socialisation. They aren't really for novice owners though, they need someone who is experienced with dogs which was a mistake I made.

[jamie231]

I don't have much experience with Staffords, but own to AmStaffs so can help you with them.

In my opinion AmStaffs do not respond well with the whole "Dominance alpha male" way of thinking. The best training method is reward based training. They are fairly intelligent and do need continuous training.

Both of my dogs are alone between 7.30 - 4.30-5.30 Monday to Friday and they do fine, but I leave bones etc for them during the day. We are on acreage so one walk a day is also plenty exercise wise. When we only had Harley in a small yard, he destroyed it though being alone in the day.

If you go for an AmStaff make sure your breeder is breeding for temperament not looks. It will make a difference with the dog when it is older. Also starting socialisation from as early as possible (8 weeks when you get the pup) is important as they are more susceptible to dog aggression. In some cases no amount of socialisation will help stop aggression.

Male v female is all personal preference. I find Harley to be more laid back and happy to just chill where as Bella always needs to be doing something, she is a naughty little witch of a dog! lol I don't like the way males have to pee on everything and are territorial etc so I'll stick with females from now on.

AmStaff Breed Standard says:

The American Staffordshire Terrier should give the impression of great strength for his size, a well put-together dog, muscular, but agile and graceful, keenly alive to his surroundings. He should be stocky, not long-legged or racy in outline. His courage is proverbial.

Harley weights around 29kg, breed standard says between 28-40kg so I wouldn't call them small. They do make fantastic pets, so long as you keep up with training, exercise and socialisation. They aren't really for novice owners though, they need someone who is experienced with dogs which was a mistake I made.

thanks so much that's really useful info.

I'm not sure what constitutes a novice dog owner; I owned a border collie myself for 16years until he passed on and, as stated above have been living with an english stafford for the last two years, so I'm very confortable with dogs in the home.

Anyway, your comments are valued and certainly I will be going to a registered breeder and asking to meet the parents of the pups and choosing based on gut feel in terms of temperament, I don't even care which colour I get.

Again, thanks everybody !

[raffikki]

breed standard says between 28-40kg so I wouldn't call them small. They do make fantastic pets, so long as you keep up with training, exercise and socialisation. They aren't really for novice owners though, they need someone who is experienced with dogs which was a mistake I made.

I am not normally one to correct other people , but the breed standard actually says

Sizes: Height and weight should be in proportion.

Height:

Dogs approx 46-48 cms (18-19 ins) at shoulders

Bitches approx 43-46 cms (17-18 ins) at shoulders is considered preferable.

And from the Extended Breed Standard of THE AMERICAN STAFFORDSHIRE TERRIER

The historical dog the Standard was written to describe averaged approximately 46-48 cms (18 to 19 inches) and 21.75-27.2 kgs (48-60 Ibs), with bitches 43-46 cms

(17 to 18 inches) and 19.0-25.0 kgs (42-55 Ibs). These are approximately the

proportions that should be considered preferable

Personally I think 40kg is WAY too heavy/big

Edited November 4, 2012 by raffikki

[Jade~Harley~Bella]

breed standard says between 28-40kg so I wouldn't call them small. They do make fantastic pets, so long as you keep up with training, exercise and socialisation. They aren't really for novice owners though, they need someone who is experienced with dogs which was a mistake I made.

I am not normally one to correct other people <img src='http://www.dolforums.com.au/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/embarrass.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='<img src='http://www.dolforums.com.au/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/embarrass.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />' /> , but the breed standard actually says

Sizes: Height and weight should be in proportion.

Height:

Dogs approx 46-48 cms (18-19 ins) at shoulders

Bitches approx 43-46 cms (17-18 ins) at shoulders is considered preferable.

And from the Extended Breed Standard of THE AMERICAN STAFFORDSHIRE TERRIER

The historical dog the Standard was written to describe averaged approximately 46-48 cms (18 to 19 inches) and 21.75-27.2 kgs (48-60 Ibs), with bitches 43-46 cms

(17 to 18 inches) and 19.0-25.0 kgs (42-55 Ibs). These are approximately the

proportions that should be considered preferable

Personally I think 40kg is WAY too heavy/big <img src='http://www.dolforums.com.au/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/embarrass.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='<img src='http://www.dolforums.com.au/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/embarrass.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />' />

That's just what I got from the Interwebs. I certainly don't think they should be 40kg either, I think that would relate to those over muscular physiques some breeders go for.

ETA- thought I read that somewhere reputable, but just went back through and looked again and it wasn't... Wikipedia I think! Lol stupid baby brain!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited November 4, 2012 by Jade~Harley~Bella

[staffydave]

todays staffordshire bull terrier with early socialisation are more then capable of being off lead in dog parks. while you must be a responsible stafford owner and remember his hystory and monitor his interaction something all responsible owners of any breed should do. My 12 month of staffy attends a doggy day care during the week while i am at work where he runs free with over a dozen dogs everyday and while he is a full on maniac the owner of the daycare loves him and raves about the way he has interacts with dogs big and small. He has been attacked twice once pritty seriously and has never responded simply removed himself from the situation and kept playing. Early socialisation is the key not the breed.

[staffydave]

oh yeah my guy is 17 kilos and 16.5 inches a touch over standard but he is in perfect proportion not overly bulky or to leggy.

[chuckandsteve]

Id try staffordshire bull terrier rescue vic. If you get an adult you can be sure they are dog social and that rescue is fantastic.