Sporn Halter

[Katdogs]

I can't answer the question about how our obedience club would accept a Sporn harness. They seem very keen on selling their half-check/martingale and halti collars and leads to newbies. It's one of the reasons it took ages for me to go back for a second lesson, after being told our check chain was cruel and unnecessary.

Jodie (Kelpie) doesn't go to obedience but we love her Sporn harness. She wouldn't wear a halti no matter how carefully introduced, but seems to see the Sporn as her 'work' clothes and although she still pulls, she's more carefully listening to correction and is sensitive enough to it to not walk if it's still in the off-lead position of slightly tightening the bobble so she can't get tangled in it. It's made a massive difference to the strain on my shoulders and back and so Jodie's being walked more than she used to be.

Stevie is perfect at loose lead walking now on flat collar, but Jodie's a bit 'special'.

[minimax]

I can't answer the question about how our obedience club would accept a Sporn harness. They seem very keen on selling their half-check/martingale and halti collars and leads to newbies. It's one of the reasons it took ages for me to go back for a second lesson, after being told our check chain was cruel and unnecessary.

Jodie (Kelpie) doesn't go to obedience but we love her Sporn harness. She wouldn't wear a halti no matter how carefully introduced, but seems to see the Sporn as her 'work' clothes and although she still pulls, she's more carefully listening to correction and is sensitive enough to it to not walk if it's still in the off-lead position of slightly tightening the bobble so she can't get tangled in it. It's made a massive difference to the strain on my shoulders and back and so Jodie's being walked more than she used to be.

Stevie is perfect at loose lead walking now on flat collar, but Jodie's a bit 'special'.

I'd love to take my pugs to a club and watch them try and make them wear a halti

[m-sass]

Aidan2' timestamp='1352418604' post='6014737']

The dog with the halter was suffering a constant avervise simply by wearing it. Have you seen a dog suffer a constant aversive simply by wearing a prong collar Adian? I certainly haven't.

No, but I've seen dogs who suffer a constant threat of aversive or a constant fear of an unpredictable correction from a prong collar in inexperienced or incompetent hands.

By the same token, I've never made a dog walk in a head halter that was a "constant aversive". Head halters, properly, should be response prevention - much the same as a harness or flat collar, but with leverage. If a dog is not comfortable wearing a head halter, they shouldn't be wearing it.

When I condition a dog to wear a head halter (a rare event), they do everything but buckle the clip themselves. Given that there is no threat of correction for not willingly putting their nose in the loop and willingly holding still while I buckle the clip, I'd have to put faith in the evidence that the head halter was not a constant aversive for these dogs.

I think incorrect use of any tool is a potential problem. I have seen cringing dogs from incorrect use of aversive tools and dogs constantly pawing at the nose straps on head halters, both situations I don't find inspiring. I have however found a prong collar far less threatening to a dog's comfort than a head halter when used properly as the prong has no conditioning time for the dog to get used to, no nose straps etc etc to contend with or limited head movement, dog doesn't know the difference between a prong and any other neck collar on a loose leash and if you introduce prong correction gradually which I have done with two collars and leashes intitially to avoid the dog receiving a massive prong correction suddenly to spook it and cause collar fear, I have actually transformed cronic lesh pullers in this method within 20 minutes, dog's that have been on harnesses and head halters for two years without success. Having said that, it's something I can do but it's not something that is easily taught to newbie dog owners with little handling skills juggling two leashes and collars intially, but I have transformed strong dogs, my best effort an Amstaff with 3 years of learned behaviour of violent leash pulling in a short period of time with a prong collar, a tool that no other tool used with dog would come close to creating successful rehabilitation :D Edited November 9, 2012 by m-sass

[m-sass]

You know what I think Kavik....if a dog does work well on a harness given the fact that a harness doesn't provide any corrective control, the same dog would work "super" on a flat collar if it was being trained properly??

Probably yes, but the harness may be easier for some handlers, especially inexperienced ones like myself.

A harness does a brilliant job of getting the leash out of the way completely.

My old girl usually wore a harness because she was usually dragging a long line.

What happpened if she dragged a long line from a neck collar?

[Aidan3]

You know what I think Kavik....if a dog does work well on a harness given the fact that a harness doesn't provide any corrective control, the same dog would work "super" on a flat collar if it was being trained properly??

Probably yes, but the harness may be easier for some handlers, especially inexperienced ones like myself.

A harness does a brilliant job of getting the leash out of the way completely.

My old girl usually wore a harness because she was usually dragging a long line.

What happpened if she dragged a long line from a neck collar?

They step on them, and if they get snagged on a rock it gives them a collar pop.

Not a big problem though.

[Guest Labradork]

Oh I forgot to say...

It was only recently that she became annoyed with the head halter. She is 5 months old, but from 8 weeks old it wasn't a problem for her until now. She would still get excited whenever I showed it to her, and she would happily put her nose into it, but after only a few minutes of walking she would try to get it off.

I asked my vet to help me re-fit the halter when I was last at the clinic, but it didn't make any difference and it still irritated her. It was my vet who suggested the Sporn harness. My puppy was like a different dog as soon as we put it on her.

I just want her to be comfortable. Ideally, I want her to wear a flat collar but we're not there yet.

[milacon]

What is the difference between the sporn harness and a normal harness Labradork?

I've tried using a normal harness on Koda (Samoyed) with no luck and we are now using the Gentle Leader which works wonders, but he isn't 100% comfortable with it.

He is fine with it on if he is distracted like when we are walking, otherwise he would roll around on the grass trying to get it off. Would prefer to use something that he is 100% comfortable with.

[Guest Labradork]

What is the difference between the sporn harness and a normal harness Labradork?

I've tried using a normal harness on Koda (Samoyed) with no luck and we are now using the Gentle Leader which works wonders, but he isn't 100% comfortable with it.

He is fine with it on if he is distracted like when we are walking, otherwise he would roll around on the grass trying to get it off. Would prefer to use something that he is 100% comfortable with.

A Sporn harness has sherpa sleeves that go under the dog's arms...

http://sporn.com/training/sporn-halter/

It's confusing because it's actually called a halter, but it looks more like a harness. Also, it might be best for you to wait for the dog training people to respond to your question. I'm not an expert on dog walking accessories in any way. I just use the Sporn harness because my dog is happier wearing it :)

Edited November 19, 2012 by Labradork

[Zug Zug]

I have used a halti (face halter that loops over the nose) and a sporn harness (which loops under the armpits)

My comparison would be as follows:

- the halti/halter gives better control with a dog that pulls

- the sporn harness is also quite good (but not as good) with a pulling dog

- the sporn harness positions the dog slightly in front of you rather than alongside you and that can encourage them to be walking ahead of you (this is because you are attached to them from behind the withers, so the dog is naturally further forward while you're walking along)

- of the two, my dog certainly prefers wearing the sporn harness (he would be happy never to see the halti again - but once it's on he accepts it)

So for a strong pulling dog I would go with the halti. If your dog is not strong, and you don't mind them walking a bit further forward, the sporn harness is also pretty good and your dog may prefer it.

[Guest Clover]

There is a 'club' in ballarat that only allows flat collars, Sporn harnesses and I think martingales. They are hardcore postive only training.

[Nekhbet]

People ... people ... people ...

we have totally forgotten the thing that will actually fix the dog!

TRAINING! *faint*

throw the equipment in the bin and train the dog. Really, stop worrying about what the dog likes and doesnt like, it's why the dog is needing more equipment and changing it.

[megan_]

While you are training a dog you still need to be able to take the dog out and about. No point in letting them pull then. Plenty of the top trainers in the world recommend that you walk a young dog/pup/untrained dog with a harness at first, then train them to walk with a collar.

[minimax]

People ... people ... people ...

we have totally forgotten the thing that will actually fix the dog!

TRAINING! *faint*

throw the equipment in the bin and train the dog. Really, stop worrying about what the dog likes and doesnt like, it's why the dog is needing more equipment and changing it.

Yes, let's train a dog to walk nicely on a leash by throwing all tethering equipment out and walking it off leash :p

[Nekhbet]

While you are training a dog you still need to be able to take the dog out and about. No point in letting them pull then. Plenty of the top trainers in the world recommend that you walk a young dog/pup/untrained dog with a harness at first, then train them to walk with a collar

Why a harness? All my pups get started on collars and leads and no one has died a horrific death or suffered some unimaginable emotional distress. None of my clients dogs have either. Harnesses and all this fiddle faddle equipment are fairly recent, we did fine without them for many many years before.

I believe in starting how you want to end. Why use a harness or some other rubbish if you want to end up on a collar. People want too much. They want to be able to go on big walks and have a well mannered dog without 1) learning handling skills and 2) without successively training the dog to respond to them. Sorry but you NEED handling skills. Its why everyone used to go to dog club, to learn how to handle the dog and others you bought afterwards. Now people think you head straight to the pet shop and the equipment will help you.

Dog training is not rocket science despite what some people try and make it out. You dont need to keep buying rubbish, if you cannot walk your dog and it wont listen to you, instead of running off to buy another piece of equipment you need to think 'well hang on, why isnt the dog interested'. Most of the time it's because there is no relationship built between the owner and the dog, and the owner is worth little under distraction. No equipment will fix that.

Save your money and just relationship build. If your dog cant go for a big walk well do a half to one hour training session in your front yard instead. Teach the dog slowly to accept distractions and test yourself how exciting you are when someone walks past.

Yes, let's train a dog to walk nicely on a leash by throwing all tethering equipment out and walking it off leash

Oh I have seen someone that runs on that theory O_o no. I mean gimick equipment that promises to solve the worlds problems. We have also forgotten how to use a lead properly, it is not just a tether it is a tool to help you communicate with your dog and help it learn.

Edited November 20, 2012 by Nekhbet

[Nekhbet]

saying that a lack of leash worked well on the pug Minimax :laugh: you should see those little legs pump away to come back off lead ahh food drive

[minimax]

saying that a lack of leash worked well on the pug Minimax :laugh: you should see those little legs pump away to come back off lead ahh food drive

Oddly enough my pugs walk better off-leash - I think it's part of their stubborn determination to do the opposite of whatever I want them to do! I take them for a run off leash, and they stick to me like velcro, hardly going a metre away from me ... I walk them on-leash and all they want to do is pull and run away

[Red Fox]

Oh I forgot to say...

It was only recently that she became annoyed with the head halter. She is 5 months old, but from 8 weeks old it wasn't a problem for her until now. She would still get excited whenever I showed it to her, and she would happily put her nose into it, but after only a few minutes of walking she would try to get it off.

I asked my vet to help me re-fit the halter when I was last at the clinic, but it didn't make any difference and it still irritated her. It was my vet who suggested the Sporn harness. My puppy was like a different dog as soon as we put it on her.

I just want her to be comfortable. Ideally, I want her to wear a flat collar but we're not there yet.

You put an 8 week old pup on a head collar?? Why??

[Guest Labradork]

Oh I forgot to say...

It was only recently that she became annoyed with the head halter. She is 5 months old, but from 8 weeks old it wasn't a problem for her until now. She would still get excited whenever I showed it to her, and she would happily put her nose into it, but after only a few minutes of walking she would try to get it off.

I asked my vet to help me re-fit the halter when I was last at the clinic, but it didn't make any difference and it still irritated her. It was my vet who suggested the Sporn harness. My puppy was like a different dog as soon as we put it on her.

I just want her to be comfortable. Ideally, I want her to wear a flat collar but we're not there yet.

You put an 8 week old pup on a head collar?? Why??

No, sorry. I'm not sure why I wrote that. She wore a flat collar until I changed to a head halter.

eta

I meant that walking on a lead wasn't a problem for her until recently, which is why my vet suggested the Sporn Halter.

Edited November 23, 2012 by Labradork

[Nekhbet]

Oddly enough my pugs walk better off-leash - I think it's part of their stubborn determination to do the opposite of whatever I want them to do! I take them for a run off leash, and they stick to me like velcro, hardly going a metre away from me ... I walk them on-leash and all they want to do is pull and run away

well the old dear hasnt the best vision so unless we're in a fenced area she has to be on lead, otherwise she just tends to put her head down and not pay attention where she's going :laugh: as for stubborn, yeeesh never knew a pug was happy to bail up a working malinois under the dining table and proceed to hold her there growling like a demon

[corvus]

Sometimes I think rubbing at the head collar may be a displacement behaviour. I've seen it in dogs that otherwise can't get their head in their head collar fast enough. It's usually associated with slightly elevated arousal or vague conflict. Anyway, if the Sporn harness is working great, doesn't seem like there's any reason to go back to a head halter.

I always feel a bit annoyed when people yadda on about flat collars as if it's some kind of gold standard. I don't like flat collars. I like harnesses. Why can't I use a harness if I like harnesses and my dogs are perfectly under control in them? What's the difference? I use a flat collar at training to keep the peace, but once or twice I've accidentally walked in with a harness and no one has complained at vetting. I don't see why it matters what I walk my dogs on. If I decided I wanted to walk them on head collars for the rest of their lives and they were cool with it and I was cool with it I can't see why that is a problem.