Allywil Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Why a harness? All my pups get started on collars and leads and no one has died a horrific death or suffered some unimaginable emotional distress. None of my clients dogs have either. Harnesses and all this fiddle faddle equipment are fairly recent, we did fine without them for many many years before. I thought harnesses and halters were an expression of proof used by positive trainers that they don't support collar corrections. Trainers who recommend the use of harnesses and halters like clockwork I have noticed will have their anti check chain, prong, and shock collar section explaining the potential negative effects of inhumane training tools?. I may be wrong in this assumption but harnesses and halters seem to go hand in hand with positive training methods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 That's certainly not a correct assumption. Lots of people use harnesses for lots of different reasons and lots of trainers support their use for lots of different reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 People have tool preferences. What of it? Build a bridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffyluv Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 We finally took the sporn harness for a run this morning. Ziggy was a totally different dog in it. No pulling at all and his loose lead walking was probably 90% of the walk, so not sure if it was the harness or he was just being a really good boy. He was out front a bit as usual but that's OK as he comes back to me when someone comes towards us. I have a sore back, so I am really limited with his exercise at the moment. He is only getting about a half hour walk a day and one or two 10 minute training sessions in the backyard... This is down from at least 45 minute fast walk and about 5 10 minute sessions for tricks, training and playing.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allywil Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 (edited) That's certainly not a correct assumption. Lots of people use harnesses for lots of different reasons and lots of trainers support their use for lots of different reasons. Can't say in all honesty that I have seen trainers who support the use of check chains, prongs and ecollars supporting the use of harnesses as a walking tool.......just responding to Nekhbet's comment who I understand is a practicing dog trainer? Edited November 22, 2012 by Allywil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Steve Courtney uses harnesses on his working line male when they're working in drive I believe. All the schutzhund people I know use them to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allywil Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Steve Courtney uses harnesses on his working line male when they're working in drive I believe. All the schutzhund people I know use them to. The harness is used in some dogs when forward motion is required without causing a self collar correction and reducing drive. A dog in drive will pull harder on a harness than they will on a collar, the reason I don't understand why anyone would recommend a harness over a collar to train a loose leash walk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Labradork Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 (edited) I think I have confused people by calling the Sporn Halter a harness when it is actually a halter. Though it isn't really like a harness or a halter. It has a collar that goes around the dog's neck, but it sits further down the neck near the shoulders. And the two sherpa loops (where the dog's front legs go through) are attached to the collar and sit snugly under the armpits. Also the lead is attached to the back of the neck near the shoulders (someone mentioned that it was attached to the front of the chest). Edited November 22, 2012 by Labradork Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allywil Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 I think I have confused people by calling the Sporn Halter a harness when it is actually a halter. Though it isn't really like a harness or a halter. It has a collar that goes around the dog's neck, but it sits further down the neck near the shoulders. And the two sherpa loops (where the dog's front legs go through) are attached to the collar and sit snugly under the armpits. Also the lead is attached to the back of the neck near the shoulders (someone mentioned that it was attached to the front of the chest). I get what it is thanks...........so what does it actually do to warrant the use of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Labradork Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 (edited) I think I have confused people by calling the Sporn Halter a harness when it is actually a halter. Though it isn't really like a harness or a halter. It has a collar that goes around the dog's neck, but it sits further down the neck near the shoulders. And the two sherpa loops (where the dog's front legs go through) are attached to the collar and sit snugly under the armpits. Also the lead is attached to the back of the neck near the shoulders (someone mentioned that it was attached to the front of the chest). I get what it is thanks...........so what does it actually do to warrant the use of it? If you get what it is then why are you asking? Edited November 22, 2012 by Labradork Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minimax Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 I think I have confused people by calling the Sporn Halter a harness when it is actually a halter. Though it isn't really like a harness or a halter. It has a collar that goes around the dog's neck, but it sits further down the neck near the shoulders. And the two sherpa loops (where the dog's front legs go through) are attached to the collar and sit snugly under the armpits. Also the lead is attached to the back of the neck near the shoulders (someone mentioned that it was attached to the front of the chest). My sporn doesn't have a collar, it merely has the loops under the legs and the lead attaches to the back like a normal harness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allywil Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 I think I have confused people by calling the Sporn Halter a harness when it is actually a halter. Though it isn't really like a harness or a halter. It has a collar that goes around the dog's neck, but it sits further down the neck near the shoulders. And the two sherpa loops (where the dog's front legs go through) are attached to the collar and sit snugly under the armpits. Also the lead is attached to the back of the neck near the shoulders (someone mentioned that it was attached to the front of the chest). I get what it is thanks...........so what does it actually do to warrant the use of it? If you get what it is then why are you asking? I understand how it attaches to the dog, but I don't understand how it works as a training tool, perhaps you could explain that too if you don't mind please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fox Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Steve Courtney uses harnesses on his working line male when they're working in drive I believe. All the schutzhund people I know use them to. For training character work yes, but not for walking. I don't know any Sch/IPO handlers that use a harness or a head collar for walking their dog. Dogs wear a fur saver to trial (including the traffic test) and associate the harness with c-work, so walking them on a harness would be counter productive. Kind of irrelevant to this particular topic though.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Didn't you use a harness when moving your pup around though SK? Before she was fully leash trained? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasels Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 I use a sporn as a management tool rather than a training tool. Sometimes we just want to get from A to B without having a training session, and if the sporn works it allows that to happen without the dog practicing bad habits. One way it could be used as a training tool though is for shaping a LLW, because it would provide more opportunities to reinforce the loose leash which could later be generalised to other tools if needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minimax Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 (edited) I use a sporn as a management tool rather than a training tool. Sometimes we just want to get from A to B without having a training session, and if the sporn works it allows that to happen without the dog practicing bad habits. One way it could be used as a training tool though is for shaping a LLW, because it would provide more opportunities to reinforce the loose leash which could later be generalised to other tools if needed. This is how I use the sporn - as a way to walk my dog without dislocating my shoulder and without giving her new bad habits, or re-inforcing her existing ones. It's her every day walking harness, no different to my other dogs rope harness. Edited November 22, 2012 by minimax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fox Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Didn't you use a harness when moving your pup around though SK? Before she was fully leash trained? When she was a baby yes, but only for the first month or so which was more about getting her out and about rather than 'walking' as such. Probably not something I'd bother with again though. No control and didn't teach her a thing. I honestly can't see the benefit of using any standard harness for control in an adult dog, particularly if your aim is competition obedience. Even less for a Sch/IPO dog when you want the dog to associate the harness with pulling. Though I can see the value of 'no pull' harnesses as a management tool for some pet owners. Just not something I'd bother with personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Labradork Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 I think I have confused people by calling the Sporn Halter a harness when it is actually a halter. Though it isn't really like a harness or a halter. It has a collar that goes around the dog's neck, but it sits further down the neck near the shoulders. And the two sherpa loops (where the dog's front legs go through) are attached to the collar and sit snugly under the armpits. Also the lead is attached to the back of the neck near the shoulders (someone mentioned that it was attached to the front of the chest). I get what it is thanks...........so what does it actually do to warrant the use of it? If you get what it is then why are you asking? I understand how it attaches to the dog, but I don't understand how it works as a training tool, perhaps you could explain that too if you don't mind please? I think everyone here has explained it pretty well. I'm not sure what else I can add. Perhaps you could do a DOL search, or Google it or email the company and ask them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Labradork Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 (edited) I think I have confused people by calling the Sporn Halter a harness when it is actually a halter. Though it isn't really like a harness or a halter. It has a collar that goes around the dog's neck, but it sits further down the neck near the shoulders. And the two sherpa loops (where the dog's front legs go through) are attached to the collar and sit snugly under the armpits. Also the lead is attached to the back of the neck near the shoulders (someone mentioned that it was attached to the front of the chest). My sporn doesn't have a collar, it merely has the loops under the legs and the lead attaches to the back like a normal harness. Perhaps we should make it clear in this thread which Sporn product we are talking about (when we are talking about it)? Mine has a collar and it is called a Sporn Halter. Edited November 23, 2012 by Labradork Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minimax Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 I think I have confused people by calling the Sporn Halter a harness when it is actually a halter. Though it isn't really like a harness or a halter. It has a collar that goes around the dog's neck, but it sits further down the neck near the shoulders. And the two sherpa loops (where the dog's front legs go through) are attached to the collar and sit snugly under the armpits. Also the lead is attached to the back of the neck near the shoulders (someone mentioned that it was attached to the front of the chest). My sporn doesn't have a collar, it merely has the loops under the legs and the lead attaches to the back like a normal harness. Perhaps we should make it clear in this thread which Sporn product we are talking about (when we are talking about it)? Mine has a collar and it is called a Sporn Halter. They both work on the same "under the arm" concept to help stop leash pulling, mines just minus the collar because my fattys have chunky necks and the collars were too small for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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