Electric Fence Collar On A Puppy

[Are You Serious Jo]

So what you are saying tralee is that you are unable to understand a hypothetical situation presented to you. Would you prefer that to people thinking you are avoiding the issue because you know your argument doesn't stand up?

I might think it is stupid to not get the required operation done immediately therefore I am justified in stealing that dog you were caring for. Or is stealing only allowed when you decide it is ok?

[Tralee]

So what you are saying tralee is that you are unable to understand a hypothetical situation presented to you.

Would you prefer that to people thinking you are avoiding the issue because you know your argument doesn't stand up?

I might think it is stupid to not get the required operation done immediately therefore I am justified in stealing that dog you were caring for.

Or is stealing only allowed when you decide it is ok?

Forum Rules 2,3 12.

*ignore*

[Salukifan]

It wouldn't have been stupid if they hadn't put an electic collar on a six week old puppy.

So if anything you do to your dogs is "stupid" in my opinion, I should steal them?

Or is it only when you think things are stupid that people should have to follow your advice?

You seem to have a remarkable inability to place yourself in the shoes of people who'd be the subjects of your version of moral liberation of pets.

You may consider yourself to be an exemplary dog owner but if your advice was followed, it wouldn't matter how well your animals were treated if another person found that treatment lacking.

Anarchy....

The OP intervened and so would I.

The OP was quite justified and pity there isn't more like them.

The OP did NOT break the law. Your views were that the pup should be removed from its owner. Hardly the same thing. You appointed yourself the arbiter of standards for dog keeping over and above the RSPCA and pronounced the owners unfit - all based on a second hand reports. Nice work.

But when your dog ownership was theoretically called into question based on a similar level of knowledge you defended your behaviour - a chance NOT given to this pup's owners before you handed down your judgment.

Few folk suggested that the OP's intervention wasn't a reasonable course of action although my view is that removal of a containment collar on an animal kept in non-secure fencing should have been thought through. If that pup had ended up dead on the road, how would the OP have felt?

Do unto others Tralee. If you don't want folk taking the law into their own hands based on minimal information where your dogs are concerned, you might want to reconsider advocating it for other dog owners.

That was my point.

[Are You Serious Jo]

Disagreeing with you is not a personal attack. I still haven't seen you point out where the OP said the dog was in distress. If the dog was no in pain or immediate danger then removing the collar or stealing the dog is wrong. Just because you disagree with how the dog is kept doesn't make it cruel.

If we don't speak up when people post about this sort of thing they won't get a different perspective. No wonder the dog world is falling apart with all the people being lightening quick to judge with no facts.

[Tralee]

The OP intervened and so would I.

The OP was quite justified and pity there isn't more like them.

The OP did NOT break the law.

Your views were that the pup should be removed from its owner.

Hardly the same thing.

You appointed yourself the arbiter of standards for dog keeping over and above the RSPCA and pronounced the owners unfit - all based on a second hand reports. Nice work.

But when your dog ownership was theoretically called into question based on a similar level of knowledge you defended your behaviour - a chance NOT given to this pup's owners before you handed down your judgment.

Few folk suggested that the OP's intervention wasn't a reasonable course of action although my view is that removal of a containment collar on an animal kept in non-secure fencing should have been thought through.

If that pup had ended up dead on the road, how would the OP have felt?

Do unto others Tralee.

If you don't want folk taking the law into their own hands based on minimal information where your dogs are concerned, you might want to reconsider advocating it for other dog owners.

That was my point.

Yes.

Hello old friend.

Don't dictate to me.

I gave my opinion.

The convo is over

*ignore*

[persephone]

The convo is over

have you forgotten?

This is D O L .

the conversation is never over...... :)

It is an interesting point ..and I remember cases where neglect /abuse was being carried out .. and how DOLers worked together to help ..legally ...

We don't normally just sit on our hands if the need arises , thankfully :)

[Steve]

Settle down. If the dog was being zapped it would not go where it is being zapped - even three week old puppies work out where in a whelping box is more comfortable and any pup would work out pretty quickly where it needs to be to be comfortable - in the state of queensland it isnt against the law . How do you even know the dog is 6 weeks old? There are several different brands and you cant say which one this is and at what min age it is recommended to be used - considering or advising someone to steal the dog based on the use of a shock collar and what has been assumed and written here is crazy when the pup isnt writhing around in pain or distress - wake up !

[Salukifan]

Yes.

Hello old friend.

Don't dictate to me.

I gave my opinion.

The convo is over

*ignore*

And I disagreed with it.

"old friend" eh?

I gave you every opportunity to further explain your advocacy of citizen initiated dog liberation.

Place me on ignore if you must but its for others to determine if that's because you have no decent response to the idea that "dog liberation" might just as validly applied to your own dog by someone forming a quick judgement based on minimal observation

That's the problem with "moral behaviour" being placed above the law. There's no right of response and no agreed standards of "wrong".

It's a free for all.

Edited November 5, 2012 by Haredown Whippets

[persephone]

Settle down. If the dog was being zapped it would not go where it is being zapped - even three week old puppies work out where in a whelping box is more comfortable and any pup would work out pretty quickly where it needs to be to be comfortable - in the state of queensland it isnt against the law . How do you even know the dog is 6 weeks old? There are several different brands and you cant say which one this is and at what min age it is recommended to be used - considering or advising someone to steal the dog based on the use of a shock collar and what has been assumed and written here is crazy when the pup isnt writhing around in pain or distress - wake up !

[Tralee]

On the contrary.

I am not talking hypothetically.

I currently have a dog in care, taken on entirely out of compassion.

Its all well and good to jump up and down and say you should not do this, or that.

I have taken someone's dog that was suffering and given my time and money to its care.

I am sure you have too, steve.

If there is a point, it is I know the difference between talking about it, and actually getting your hands dirty.

Edited November 5, 2012 by Tralee

[Are You Serious Jo]

Its all well and good to jump up and down and say you should not do this, or that.

You finally agree :laugh:

[Salukifan]

On the contrary.

I am not talking hypothetically.

I currently have a dog in care, taken on entirely out of compassion.

If there is a point, it is I know the difference between talking about it, and actually getting your hands dirty.

There's also a difference between stealing a dog and convincing the owner to hand it over.

And you know it.

Appeals to acknowledge your "good works" don't improve the standard of your logic Tralee. You also flatter yourself that your side of this debate is the only one where people have stepped in to help a dog in need.

Edited November 5, 2012 by Haredown Whippets

[Alyosha]

How do you even know the dog is 6 weeks old?

This!

Nobody knows how old the pup is. The OP has guessed based on their memory of the size of their dog at 8 weeks old, four years ago, and their guess that its even a GSD. And what's with all the spying? Go and ask them! "I noticed you had a young pup..." blah blah blah. Interact with them and find out some facts.

Much more useful than jumping to a million misguided conclusions.

[Tralee]

How do you even know the dog is 6 weeks old?

This!

Nobody knows how old the pup is.

The OP has guessed based on their memory of the size of their dog at 8 weeks old, four years ago, and their guess that its even a GSD.

And what's with all the spying? Go and ask them! "I noticed you had a young pup..." blah blah blah.

Interact with them and find out some facts.

Much more useful than jumping to a million misguided conclusions.

Its already been suggetsed.

Maybe some direct personal contact rather than all the subterfuge.

The dogs/pups interest is at stake.

And who knows, since you have a common interest, you may find some new friends.

[Steve]

On the contrary.

I am not talking hypothetically.

I currently have a dog in care, taken on entirely out of compassion.

Its all well and good to jump up and down and say you should not do this, or that.

I have taken someone's dog that was suffering and given my time and money to its care.

I am sure you have too, steve.

If there is a point, it is I know the difference between talking about it, and actually getting your hands dirty.

Yes I have.I have 2 here at the moment - one has been here for 6 years but Ive never considered taking a dog without the owners approval and having all necessary paper work completed.

Some years ago my Mum was taken to hospital and she had a little aussie terrier . Every day for the 2 weeks Mum was in hospital my sister went to her house and while she watered plants, collected things Mum needed etc and did the basics her kids played with the dog , then when she had finished doing what she needed to do she would sit for an hour or so each and every day and watch while the kids loved the dog. She could only do this in the middle of the day due to other committments but the dog was exercised, fed and watered and didnt miss a single day of this while Mum was away. Some nosy neighbour decided that the dog was a poor thing which was being left to die alone and lonely because Mum was in hospital. The RSPCA came out and all was well with them. But the next day when my sister went to do the usual the dog was missing . This dog was what Mum wanted to come home to and had been her life - you have no idea what stress not knowing where the dog was created. Long story short we spotted the dog in the neighbours house a week after Mum came home and had to call the police to get it back . The neighbour was at work through the day so didnt see what was happening and had no idea of why the decision had been made to keep the dog in her own yard rather than take it away. Still believed Mum was too old to have a dog and never once gave any hint of apology.

In August a close family member died and she had 8 chooks. The first thing we did was organise for someone to go in twice a day and we were paying them to look after the chooks until we could take a breath and sort out what we wanted to do with them. Nup nosy neighbour called the RSPCA told them Jean had died and the chooks hadnt been cared for - another pain in the neck we had to deal with and put our grief aside to race to find new homes rather than take our time knowing we had organised care for the bloody chooks . In both these cases all the nosy neighbours had to do was to look to see the animals werent distressed and were being given fresh food and water and being cared for - both had contact numbers of family members they could have called first but instead they looked over the fence and decided to save them.

[LisaCC]

Ok this is confusing me. Are people saying its actually LEGAL to steal someone's dog because you subjectively think its being mistreated?

We were reported to the RSPCA when my lab was sick and extremely underweight, all sorted out rather quickly when we gave proof of his continuous vet treatments.

But his illness can pop up again at anytime. Should I be worried if he gets thin again that someone could come in and legally steal my dog because they might think I'm starving him?

I have no problem with people contacting the RSPCA, I would do that myself, but taking the dog yourself, how is that legal???

[dog_fan]

Ok this is confusing me. Are people saying its actually LEGAL to steal someone's dog because you subjectively think its being mistreated?

We were reported to the RSPCA when my lab was sick and extremely underweight, all sorted out rather quickly when we gave proof of his continuous vet treatments.

But his illness can pop up again at anytime. Should I be worried if he gets thin again that someone could come in and legally steal my dog because they might think I'm starving him?

I have no problem with people contacting the RSPCA, I would do that myself, but taking the dog yourself, how is that legal???

It is not legal to steal anyone's property and that includes dogs.

[Salukifan]

Ok this is confusing me. Are people saying its actually LEGAL to steal someone's dog because you subjectively think its being mistreated?

It isn't. Tralee was advocating that people should take the law into their own hands when they thought a dog was being mistreated.

He wasn't getting any support for the idea. Your dog is a good example of why such notions should not be acted upon.

[LisaCC]

Thank god, that actually scared me quite a bit.

Sometimes you should remember old cliche sayings 'Don't judge a book by its cover'.

However I do agree that 6weeks is too young to be using an electronic collar, but if it's legal in QLD there isn't much you can do except maybe try to talk to the owners and educate them.

[Tralee]

Tralee was advocating that people should take the law into their own hands when they thought a dog was being mistreated.

LisaCC

I wasn't doing any such thing.

Although they had a red hot go at beating it up to look as though I had.

I always employ the same triple criterion.

"Which intervention, in which situation, with which dog is the most efficacious."

If it was me, I would have removed the dog.

I don't care what others want to call it, it was just next door.

If one of us were able to prevent an injustice, but instead allowed it to take place, then we could not justify our inaction. If we were to say that although we could have prevented it, we thought it best to protect the perpetrator by allowing him (sic) to carry out his plan, then we would be judged to have made a moral error.

No-one said that it is the universal case that dogs should be removed from their home and spirited away from their rightful owners.