Pitbulls Bite Off Teenagers Ear In Savage Attack

[Luke GSP]

as I have said before in this thread, why do a large amount of the people who buy these breeds buy them?

Is it because they want to offer a loving a nurturing home for the betterment of the breed? be honest

is it because they just wanted a dog?

do you honestly think that they understand what "managing" the breed is?

the amount of people that I have seen and heard defending APBT with statements like

"a pure breed APBT with HA, never"

"pure breed APBT's are bred not to be HA"

"They are the Nanny dog"

Is it any wonder that unsuspecting people buy in to these kind of statements and make the mistake that these animals that have the physical ability to severely injure and even kill are "safe"?

IMO bull breed owners need to stop being quite so defensive and face the fact that their animals are better equipped than an awful lot of other breeds to inflict severe damage, and have largely been bred for some form of aggressive trait, which whether originally designed to be directed at humans or not, can be redirected upon, or catch a human in the crossfire with very tragic consequences.

This is not about bite propensity people, lets face it which would you prefer

shot with an air rifle or a sniper rifle?

hit your thumb with a hammer or sledge hammer?

get bitten by a beagle or a pit bull?

it is about the outcome when/if someone fails to "manage" the animal!

I wonder how many Bull breed owners are up front enough to face up to the reality, stop talking around the subject and admit that the breeds that they own represent some of the greatest potential of horrific injury or death of any of the dog breeds should the potential owner "get it wrong"

lets face it if you were a novice herper and you went to buy a snake, you would expect the person selling it to you to let you know which of the snakes had the ability to bite versus the ones that had the ability to bite and kill you! That is the responsibility of the breeder, seller and other more knowledgable/experienced herpers to be honest enough to give you the facts, not hide behind language like "gameness" or statements like "this death adder will be fine in your family home, its just a matter of managing it, statistics show that it has no greater propensity to bite than a python"

[Sheridan]

I love Bull breeds and have worked with them in the past, Amstaffs are one of my three favourite breeds. I think people are seeing me saying monster as something much more drenched in malice than it is. My family has always used the term "monster" to describe anything that we see as dangerous or unsafe. "That's a monster of a tree" or "That bridge is a monster" etc is commonly heard in my family. It's a descriptive word I use is all.

Did you call Ned a "monster"?

No.

RIP Ned and your Resolved thread if you want to remind yourself. I am certainly reminded of Ned every time you put forth an opinion on dogs.

I was asking a question. I don't know amstaff colouring. I am aware that a number of breeds have that colouring. I'm not blaming any breed, just the individual dogs whatever they are.

But you said amstaffs were one of your three favourite breeds and you'd worked with them in the past.

Edited October 31, 2012 by Sheridan

[mixeduppup]

I love Bull breeds and have worked with them in the past, Amstaffs are one of my three favourite breeds. I think people are seeing me saying monster as something much more drenched in malice than it is. My family has always used the term "monster" to describe anything that we see as dangerous or unsafe. "That's a monster of a tree" or "That bridge is a monster" etc is commonly heard in my family. It's a descriptive word I use is all.

Did you call Ned a "monster"?

No.

RIP Ned and your Resolved thread if you want to remind yourself. I am certainly reminded of Ned every time you put forth an opinion on dogs.

I was asking a question. I don't know amstaff colouring. I am aware that a number of breeds have that colouring. I'm not blaming any breed, just the individual dogs whatever they are.

But you said amstaffs were one of your three favourite breeds and you'd worked with them in the past.

ned has no place in this thread and I believe your posts are inflammatory and hurtful

Amstaffs are one of my favourite breeds and I have worked with them, I've never studied their colouring and have never worked with an amstaff of the colouring of the dogs in the thread.

Edited October 31, 2012 by mixeduppup

[Luke GSP]

DA is not gameness. Just to add fuel to the fire.

Terrible incident, I feel for the guy that was bitten.

+1

I'm not saying that gameness is DA I reckon this statement from a well know pit bull site would define my understanding of gameness

"Many dogs will fight and be willing to continue to fight as long as they are winning and are not fatigued – as soon as they start getting to tired or start losing, they quit. There are those elusive few who have the will to win and to dominate an opponent regardless of circumstances, fatigue, injury or imminent death. The will to win and to dominate is much greater than the will to survive and live – this is gameness."

Personally, I would not want an animal that has been bred to have the will to win and dominate be much greater than the will to survive living with, or near my family! Maybe that "gameness" explains why a lot of these attacks are so horrific as the will to dominate pushes the dog to keep on going and going until it wins, which sadly means that its target (animal or human) will lose, equalling severe injury or death.

[melzawelza]

Luke GSP you show a real lack of understanding of the APBT.

[BlackJaq]

I am very confused by this statement in one of the articles:

Dr Higgins said there should be laws like those in Victoria to stop people going "underground" and cross-breeding dogs in order to get around breed restrictions.

"We say the laws have got to look at individual dogs, looking at breeds is a waste of time."

http://m.smh.com.au/nsw/teen-has-ear-bitten-off-by-dogs-20121031-28ife.html

Is that not a direct contradiction? How does this make sense? Or does this person just not have a clue at all?

[Jade~Harley~Bella]

Poor kid and his dog, what a horrible thing to have to go through.

[Sabbath]

Luke GSP you show a real lack of understanding of the APBT.

Absolutely.

[melzawelza]

I am very confused by this statement in one of the articles:

Dr Higgins said there should be laws like those in Victoria to stop people going "underground" and cross-breeding dogs in order to get around breed restrictions.

"We say the laws have got to look at individual dogs, looking at breeds is a waste of time."

http://m.smh.com.au/nsw/teen-has-ear-bitten-off-by-dogs-20121031-28ife.html

Is that not a direct contradiction? How does this make sense? Or does this person just not have a clue at all?

Higgins has no idea. He was quoted on TV when Ayen Chol was killed saying that 'fighting breeds are not domesticated', and then went on to say he doesn't support BSL. I think he means well but he comes across as a fruit loop.

[Plan B]

Luke GSP you show a real lack of understanding of the APBT.

Absolutely.

Beat me to it.

[mantis]

I love Bull breeds and have worked with them in the past, Amstaffs are one of my three favourite breeds. I think people are seeing me saying monster as something much more drenched in malice than it is. My family has always used the term "monster" to describe anything that we see as dangerous or unsafe. "That's a monster of a tree" or "That bridge is a monster" etc is commonly heard in my family. It's a descriptive word I use is all.

Did you call Ned a "monster"?

No.

RIP Ned and your Resolved thread if you want to remind yourself. I am certainly reminded of Ned every time you put forth an opinion on dogs.

I was asking a question. I don't know amstaff colouring. I am aware that a number of breeds have that colouring. I'm not blaming any breed, just the individual dogs whatever they are.

But you said amstaffs were one of your three favourite breeds and you'd worked with them in the past.

Great pick up. Are we talking about monsters? :laugh:

[mixeduppup]

The majority of bull breeds are wonderful dogs it's the minority that give them a bad name. I think people need to go through an owner course to own a dog.

[m-sass]

It is now being stated that they were AmStaffs.

I bet they were non papered Amstaff's from a BYB

[Luke GSP]

Luke GSP you show a real lack of understanding of the APBT.

then please feel free to enlighten us with your understanding,

1, As to what you believe the "Gameness" is that APBT's have been bred for.

2, if the APBT is no different to any other breed why do they need to be "managed" what exactly are people supposed to be "managing" i've never heard of someone stating that owners of beagles will be fine as long as they "manage" them properly

Maybe I lack "understanding" because APBT and bull breed owners keep saying that their dogs are no different to any other and then turn around and accuse people of not "understanding" the breed. What is there to understand?

You see the problem as I see it is that people want to hide behind bite stats and neutral language in regard to the breed when it suits them, and then in the very same breath accuse owners of not managing the breed correctly when it all goes horribly wrong. You cant have it both ways either, dog is a dog and no dog has any greater ability to cause serious harm than another, or there is something different.

Which is it?

Rather than trying to belittle people by accusing them of showing a "real lack of understanding" about the breed (ergo less understanding than you) why not impart your understanding as to why this breed/breed type inflict so many horrific injuries?

My explanation would be as I have already stated

A violent encounter with a large powerful animal, that has been bred with the want to win, succeed and dominate as one of the desirable traits is more likely to have a serious negative outcome than with a smaller less powerful animal that was not bred for that trait.

You will note that i did not say "a violent encounter with an APBT", unfortunately it would appear though that an APBT would fit within that definition.

Please also note that i did not say "want to fight" I said win, succeed and dominate.

[m-sass]

But it is what dogs do? Sure it's not a pleasant behaviour or a behaviour that is acceptable, or even a behaviour commonly seen, but some dogs are aggressive, that won't ever change.

That's the idea of BSL, to get rid of the breed types who most commonly display that character

[m-sass]

People should be mad, people should be livid. These dogs are dangerous and should be treated/acknowledged as such. People should be so angry that someone didn't take the time to properly raise and manage these dogs and in turn they viciously attacked a young man. These dogs are doing the breed no favours and that's what I'm furious about.

I agree about being furious with the owners. Being furious with the dogs and labelling them 'vile monsters' does nothing and only promotes the idea that these dogs allowed themselves to be this way when, in fact, the owner has allowed them to be this way.

The owners didn't have a high enough fence to contain their dogs, the dog's behaviour is genetic

[Tempus Fugit]

As an aside, did any of you watch that TV show the other night - Martin Clunes - A man and his dog - where Shaun Ellis sticks his head between a pair of timber wolves having an altercation over food and emerges with not only his head but both ears intact? And later on there is the terrier man with his rat-killing JRTs saying that through initial selective breeding, terriers were originally far more aggressive than wolves.

In an ideal world no dogs would ever be allowed to escape from their owners' premises but dogs have simple minds of their own, their nature is to roam over large territories which they aggressively defend, and this is coupled with owners that make errors of judgement or fail to realise the capabilities and lengths their dogs will go to assert territory and dominance. Human misjudgment is also the major cause of injury and deaths in traffic and industrial accidents so standards of culpability for dog bite injuries should perhaps be the same as for the latter.

[Jed]

I love Bull breeds and have worked with them in the past, Amstaffs are one of my three favourite breeds. I think people are seeing me saying monster as something much more drenched in malice than it is. My family has always used the term "monster" to describe anything that we see as dangerous or unsafe. "That's a monster of a tree" or "That bridge is a monster" etc is commonly heard in my family. It's a descriptive word I use is all.

Did you call Ned a "monster"?

No.

RIP Ned and your Resolved thread if you want to remind yourself. I am certainly reminded of Ned every time you put forth an opinion on dogs.

I was asking a question. I don't know amstaff colouring. I am aware that a number of breeds have that colouring. I'm not blaming any breed, just the individual dogs whatever they are.

But you said amstaffs were one of your three favourite breeds and you'd worked with them in the past.

ned has no place in this thread and I believe your posts are inflammatory and hurtful

Amstaffs are one of my favourite breeds and I have worked with them, I've never studied their colouring and have never worked with an amstaff of the colouring of the dogs in the thread.

It is truly difficult to read posts such as these from someone who attested she knew everything,and then, unable to manage a Gordon Setter, had him put down rather that let club rescue or some experienced person take and assess him.

It does seem that your kmowledge of bull breeds is about the same as your knowledge of GS - from your own words.

And yes, I do find it very hurtful to hear of a dog being denied his full chance in life because someone thought they knew everthing.

Dogs - whether rescues or from breeders are for life, not until they menace the chooks. If you don't have the experience, let someone else handle it

[Jed]

People should be mad, people should be livid. These dogs are dangerous and should be treated/acknowledged as such. People should be so angry that someone didn't take the time to properly raise and manage these dogs and in turn they viciously attacked a young man. These dogs are doing the breed no favours and that's what I'm furious about.

I agree about being furious with the owners. Being furious with the dogs and labelling them 'vile monsters' does nothing and only promotes the idea that these dogs allowed themselves to be this way when, in fact, the owner has allowed them to be this way.

The owners didn't have a high enough fence to contain their dogs, the dog's behaviour is genetic

Hi m-sass can you produce proper scientific evidence to support your claim? Most of the evidence I have read is totally opposite but I like to be balanced

[mixeduppup]

I love Bull breeds and have worked with them in the past, Amstaffs are one of my three favourite breeds. I think people are seeing me saying monster as something much more drenched in malice than it is. My family has always used the term "monster" to describe anything that we see as dangerous or unsafe. "That's a monster of a tree" or "That bridge is a monster" etc is commonly heard in my family. It's a descriptive word I use is all.

Did you call Ned a "monster"?

No.

RIP Ned and your Resolved thread if you want to remind yourself. I am certainly reminded of Ned every time you put forth an opinion on dogs.

I was asking a question. I don't know amstaff colouring. I am aware that a number of breeds have that colouring. I'm not blaming any breed, just the individual dogs whatever they are.

But you said amstaffs were one of your three favourite breeds and you'd worked with them in the past.

ned has no place in this thread and I believe your posts are inflammatory and hurtful

Amstaffs are one of my favourite breeds and I have worked with them, I've never studied their colouring and have never worked with an amstaff of the colouring of the dogs in the thread.

It is truly difficult to read posts such as these from someone who attested she knew everything,and then, unable to manage a Gordon Setter, had him put down rather that let club rescue or some experienced person take and assess him.

It does seem that your kmowledge of bull breeds is about the same as your knowledge of GS - from your own words.

And yes, I do find it very hurtful to hear of a dog being denied his full chance in life because someone thought they knew everthing.

Dogs - whether rescues or from breeders are for life, not until they menace the chooks. If you don't have the experience, let someone else handle it

Check your facts. I gave him to rescue who after assessment had him pts. But this has nothing to do with anything and I would rather not talk about it.