Pitbulls Bite Off Teenagers Ear In Savage Attack

[Steve]

Sure - sounds good but in Calgary they police the by laws - Id prefer to see the laws we have enforced before any more nancy laws come in for a just in case a minority are idiots.

Alicense is a temporary revocable permit that allows the licensee to havesomething, or to do something that would be illegal to have, or to do withoutthe license. It makes dog ownership illegal. It turns over all ownership, anduse rights to the licensing agency which can at any time, inspect, confiscate,suspend, revoke, or halt issuance of the license. Licensure is a taking bygovernment without compensation. If you live in a city, town, municipality,county, or state that requires dog owner licensing, then the act of dog ownership hasbeen made illegal without permission of government.

It goes without saying that part of the solution is policing the by laws. The Calgary animal control is self-financed. Not a cent of general ratepayer money goes into it (all comes from registration itself). Our legislation is *OK* but even if rigorously enforced would not necesarily acheive what Calgary has. I say bring in the Calgary Model... ALL OF IT (which includes the fact that it is policed effectively and therefore self-funded).

So is part of the plan to introduce licences and still keep dog registrations or to abolish dog registrations and bring in owner licences?

There is no ownership licensing in Calgary. Just dog licensing (another word for registrations), same as what we currently have here. It's very strongly policed though, which we don't do here (and therefore don't have the funds to do).

O.K. So if licensing equals registration of dogs Im good with that but Im not holding my breath to see them enforcing anything here soon.

[Dame Aussie]

They won't. They will keep on with their rubbish BSL and nothing will change.

I wonder how long it will have to go on till they admit how wrong they were?

Edited November 2, 2012 by Aussie3

[melzawelza]

Sure - sounds good but in Calgary they police the by laws - Id prefer to see the laws we have enforced before any more nancy laws come in for a just in case a minority are idiots.

Alicense is a temporary revocable permit that allows the licensee to havesomething, or to do something that would be illegal to have, or to do withoutthe license. It makes dog ownership illegal. It turns over all ownership, anduse rights to the licensing agency which can at any time, inspect, confiscate,suspend, revoke, or halt issuance of the license. Licensure is a taking bygovernment without compensation. If you live in a city, town, municipality,county, or state that requires dog owner licensing, then the act of dog ownership hasbeen made illegal without permission of government.

It goes without saying that part of the solution is policing the by laws. The Calgary animal control is self-financed. Not a cent of general ratepayer money goes into it (all comes from registration itself). Our legislation is *OK* but even if rigorously enforced would not necesarily acheive what Calgary has. I say bring in the Calgary Model... ALL OF IT (which includes the fact that it is policed effectively and therefore self-funded).

So is part of the plan to introduce licences and still keep dog registrations or to abolish dog registrations and bring in owner licences?

There is no ownership licensing in Calgary. Just dog licensing (another word for registrations), same as what we currently have here. It's very strongly policed though, which we don't do here (and therefore don't have the funds to do).

O.K. So if licensing equals registration of dogs Im good with that but Im not holding my breath to see them enforcing anything here soon.

Nope, not until there's a big overhaul and the state governments all agree to adopt something like the Calgary model and commit to it properly. ACO's currently are overworked and expected to look after way more than they can, therefore they can't be proactive, only reactive.

The Calgary Model fixes all those issues though, so if governments on a state level committed to it and it was followed properly all those issues would not be issues anymore, and we'd see similar massive reductions in dog bites.

[Sheridan]

But people are proving that they can't be responsible dog owners. There is a need to address those that don't want to be educated willingly.

You cannot force people to be educated. No legislation about licensing people to own dogs will work. No amount of education will help stupid people.

So what do we do?

This is why I'd like a licence system and yard check. If people had to do something and pay a fee before getting a dog it would at least reduce impulse buys.

No, it wouldn't. Having laws about not using mobile phones in cars does nothing to prevent people using mobile phones while driving.

How would you police such a thing? You can't. How often does a ranger turn up at your door to see if your dogs are registered? They don't. And if a ranger turned up to a house where an unregistered dog is, 'Oh, the dog's just visiting. No, I can't give you the owner's name for privacy reasons. Gr8thxbai.'

Even if such a thing were policeable, all you'd be doing is creating a black market.

[Alyosha]

I haven't read the whole thread but looking at the video footage and reading the news reports, if I was involved with the Amstaff Breed at a recognised level I would be wanting to know if those dogs were papered. They don't look to remotely comply with the standard and the ANKC recognised breed has the potential here to suffer a major image blow due to the "register your pitbull or crossbred as an Amstaff to avoid BSL" brigade.

This sounds to have been a terrible attack, and all sympathy to the victim and his family. I hope he has a swift recovery.

[melzawelza]

I haven't read the whole thread but looking at the video footage and reading the news reports, if I was involved with the Amstaff Breed at a recognised level I would be wanting to know if those dogs were papered. They don't look to remotely comply with the standard and the ANKC recognised breed has the potential here to suffer a major image blow due to the "register your pitbull or crossbred as an Amstaff to avoid BSL" brigade.

This sounds to have been a terrible attack, and all sympathy to the victim and his family. I hope he has a swift recovery.

Or, the Amstaff clubs could recognize that they always have and always will be next on the list while BSL is around and rather than trying to stick their fingers in their ears and distance themselves from the dogs that created their dogs they should instead focus their energies into promoting the ineffectiveness of BSL in protecting the community and the proven solutions that do not use it.

Edited November 2, 2012 by melzawelza

[LizT]

As Sheridan stated "You cannot force people to be educated". No, you can't.

But would some media saturation of a positie kind about education and pet training, socialisation, responisbility of Pet owners etc. on a Community type TV ad go a long way to helping to eduate the unwilling and unwitting?

Why do we never see these types of "Community announcement adverts.

[Sheridan]

1351841895[/url]' post='6007276']

As Sheridan stated "You cannot force people to be educated". No, you can't.

But would some media saturation of a positie kind about education and pet training, socialisation, responisbility of Pet owners etc. on a Community type TV ad go a long way to helping to eduate the unwilling and unwitting?

Why do we never see these types of "Community announcement adverts.

Because they're not as sexy as those vicious monster stories, I'd hazard to guess.

And community service announcements still have to be paid for.

Edited November 2, 2012 by Sheridan

[Tralee]

But people are proving that they can't be responsible dog owners.

There is a need to address those that don't want to be educated willingly.

You cannot force people to be educated. No legislation about licensing people to own dogs will work.

No amount of education will help stupid people.

So what do we do?

This is why I'd like a licence system and yard check.

If people had to do something and pay a fee before getting a dog it would at least reduce impulse buys.

No, it wouldn't.

Having laws about not using mobile phones in cars does nothing to prevent people using mobile phones while driving.

How would you police such a thing?

You can't.

How often does a ranger turn up at your door to see if your dogs are registered?

They don't. And if a ranger turned up to a house where an unregistered dog is, 'Oh, the dog's just visiting.

No, I can't give you the owner's name for privacy reasons. Gr8thxbai.'

Even if such a thing were policeable, all you'd be doing is creating a black market.

Well some very clear thinking here.

Before I say we're going around in circles maybe we should consider this.

It is not possible to create a 'dog utopia' for the same reasons it is not possible to create any other kind of utopia.

The fact is others will always have to suffer at the hands of less moral, ethical or incorruptible people, including those with dogs.

As Dylan said:

Keep a clean nose

Watch the plain clothes

You don’t need a weatherman

To know which way the wind blows

[Sheridan]

I think those who think a utopian society is a good thing ought to read Utopia.

[mixeduppup]

Mum told me that back when she was younger dogs used to walk everywhere and their owners had very little control over them. She said the breeds were usually terriers, working breeds and mixtures of both. She said very rarely did anyone get bitten seriously. When did bull breeds first become popular here?

[Tralee]

I think those who think a utopian society is a good thing ought to read Utopia.

I don't think we are talking about those people who can read. :D

[m-sass]

The issue here was the owner's inability to control the dog. Not it's breed.

Isn't the idea of BSL to restrict breeds so that people with control inabilities can't own them? In other words when a dog owner has a control inability moment and drops the leash, the breed on the end of it is a breed less likely to cause injury to the community.

[asal]

Mum told me that back when she was younger dogs used to walk everywhere and their owners had very little control over them. She said the breeds were usually terriers, working breeds and mixtures of both. She said very rarely did anyone get bitten seriously. When did bull breeds first become popular here?

Very true unfortunately. I know when I learned the first consignment were here in quarantine my first thought was ho god, a new penis extension is being added. Why on earth isnt someone in authority banning this.

The videos of the attacks in america were available for all to see.

Did it really matter these horrific images only accounted for a small percentage of the tens of thousands of good canine pit/bull citizins.It was a scenario that was not in Australia. Now it is.

How did I know they had arrived?

Because their proud importer was advertising for expressions of interest in the expected puppies at "only" $5,000 each.

Went downhill from there didnt it.

The really tragic part is they are here now, the good ones are heart stealers.

Edited November 3, 2012 by asal

[mantis]

Mum told me that back when she was younger dogs used to walk everywhere and their owners had very little control over them. She said the breeds were usually terriers, working breeds and mixtures of both. She said very rarely did anyone get bitten seriously. When did bull breeds first become popular here?

It's pretty obvious that dogs then were more socialised, because they were allowed to wander willy-nilly. There were still dog fights, people being bitten & many who got hit by cars. It's the media & the introduction of social-media, which highlights the bad things that dogs do now.

Also, are you talking ALL Bull Breeds? If so, then you are talking about many breeds, would you prefer none of them existed in Australia?

[mixeduppup]

Mum told me that back when she was younger dogs used to walk everywhere and their owners had very little control over them. She said the breeds were usually terriers, working breeds and mixtures of both. She said very rarely did anyone get bitten seriously. When did bull breeds first become popular here?

It's pretty obvious that dogs then were more socialised, because they were allowed to wander willy-nilly. There were still dog fights, people being bitten & many who got hit by cars. It's the media & the introduction of social-media, which highlights the bad things that dogs do now.

Also, are you talking ALL Bull Breeds? If so, then you are talking about many breeds, would you prefer none of them existed in Australia?

Of course I want them here, I love the bull breeds. I was simply asking when they became popular. I was wondering as to whether there was a shift in society and its preconceptions of the "game breeds" when they first arrived that created an issue and inadvertently put them on the back foot from the time they arrived, making them more attractive to the less desirable members of society because they were deemed as "scary" and "vicious", which in turn has directly created the issues before us now.

Has this been simmering beneath the surface of society for a long time or is it just a new thing to dwell on and blame in order to create mass hysteria?

Edited November 3, 2012 by mixeduppup

[mantis]

Mum told me that back when she was younger dogs used to walk everywhere and their owners had very little control over them. She said the breeds were usually terriers, working breeds and mixtures of both. She said very rarely did anyone get bitten seriously. When did bull breeds first become popular here?

It's pretty obvious that dogs then were more socialised, because they were allowed to wander willy-nilly. There were still dog fights, people being bitten & many who got hit by cars. It's the media & the introduction of social-media, which highlights the bad things that dogs do now.

Also, are you talking ALL Bull Breeds? If so, then you are talking about many breeds, would you prefer none of them existed in Australia?

Of course I want them here, I love the bull breeds. I was simply asking when they became popular. I was wondering as to whether there was a shift in society and its preconceptions of the "game breeds" when they first arrived that created an issue and inadvertently put them on the back foot from the time they arrived, making them more attractive to the less desirable members of society because they were deemed as "scary" and "vicious", which in turn has directly created the issues before us now.

Has this been simmering beneath the surface of society for a long time or is it just a new thing to dwell on and blame in order to create mass hysteria?

As I posted, there were many problems with dogs back then, just dogs weren't really cared about as much. If your dog didn't come home, or got killed, it was a matter of, OH well, we'll just get another puppy from the neighbour, whose bitch just had a litter of mongrel puppies.

Yes it is a new thing with media beating up hysteria to sell papers, or get ratings.

[mixeduppup]

Mum told me that back when she was younger dogs used to walk everywhere and their owners had very little control over them. She said the breeds were usually terriers, working breeds and mixtures of both. She said very rarely did anyone get bitten seriously. When did bull breeds first become popular here?

It's pretty obvious that dogs then were more socialised, because they were allowed to wander willy-nilly. There were still dog fights, people being bitten & many who got hit by cars. It's the media & the introduction of social-media, which highlights the bad things that dogs do now.

Also, are you talking ALL Bull Breeds? If so, then you are talking about many breeds, would you prefer none of them existed in Australia?

Of course I want them here, I love the bull breeds. I was simply asking when they became popular. I was wondering as to whether there was a shift in society and its preconceptions of the "game breeds" when they first arrived that created an issue and inadvertently put them on the back foot from the time they arrived, making them more attractive to the less desirable members of society because they were deemed as "scary" and "vicious", which in turn has directly created the issues before us now.

Has this been simmering beneath the surface of society for a long time or is it just a new thing to dwell on and blame in order to create mass hysteria?

As I posted, there were many problems with dogs back then, just dogs weren't really cared about as much. If your dog didn't come home, or got killed, it was a matter of, OH well, we'll just get another puppy from the neighbour, whose bitch just had a litter of mongrel puppies.

Yes it is a new thing with media beating up hysteria to sell papers, or get ratings.

So you're saying that the introduction of game breeds hasn't impacted dog ownership and the social perception of dogs at all in this country?

[dancinbcs]

Mum told me that back when she was younger dogs used to walk everywhere and their owners had very little control over them. She said the breeds were usually terriers, working breeds and mixtures of both. She said very rarely did anyone get bitten seriously. When did bull breeds first become popular here?

The first Bull Terrier I ever saw would have been about 1970 but they were a rare breed and never allowed to roam free like other dogs at the time. In the 70s I used to walk my crossbred dog all over the district and their were plenty of loose dogs but the only one I ever had a problem with was a Scottie who lived around the corner and he was small enough that a swift kick would make him back off enough to get past the house. By this stage terriers were out of favour so there were not many around except for "minnie foxies". No one ever got attacked by a dog if they were walking in the street. We also had a Lab who had moved in on us from next door and when they left him loose he used to bail up passing dogs but never did any harm. I can't remember ever seeing dogs really fighting or causing injuries and they were pretty much all entire males. A friend's dad who had greyhounds said the only dogs who ever hassled the greys when he was walking were Labs. GSDs were about the only serious guard dogs and they were always well confined.

When I started showing in 1983 Bull Terriers had become a bit more popular but SBTs were rare. I cannot recall if there were any at shows at that time or not, when or why they suddenly became so popular. At the time some country shows were flat out to get 10 Terriers entered in the group when the other groups would have 100-150. Pitbulls and Amstaffs didn't really arrive till about the mid 90s and when the Amstaffs were first shown there were some incidents with the dogs but even more so with the owners who often seemed more aggressive than their dogs. Some of the terrier people were not at all happy about the breed being introduced to the group at the time. Thankfully since then some long time breeders of other breeds seem to have taken an interest and managed to produce some dogs with better temperament so as the numbers increased the problems decreased.

[mixeduppup]

Mum told me that back when she was younger dogs used to walk everywhere and their owners had very little control over them. She said the breeds were usually terriers, working breeds and mixtures of both. She said very rarely did anyone get bitten seriously. When did bull breeds first become popular here?

The first Bull Terrier I ever saw would have been about 1970 but they were a rare breed and never allowed to roam free like other dogs at the time. In the 70s I used to walk my crossbred dog all over the district and their were plenty of loose dogs but the only one I ever had a problem with was a Scottie who lived around the corner and he was small enough that a swift kick would make him back off enough to get past the house. By this stage terriers were out of favour so there were not many around except for "minnie foxies". No one ever got attacked by a dog if they were walking in the street. We also had a Lab who had moved in on us from next door and when they left him loose he used to bail up passing dogs but never did any harm. I can't remember ever seeing dogs really fighting or causing injuries and they were pretty much all entire males. A friend's dad who had greyhounds said the only dogs who ever hassled the greys when he was walking were Labs. GSDs were about the only serious guard dogs and they were always well confined.

When I started showing in 1983 Bull Terriers had become a bit more popular but SBTs were rare. I cannot recall if there were any at shows at that time or not, when or why they suddenly became so popular. At the time some country shows were flat out to get 10 Terriers entered in the group when the other groups would have 100-150. Pitbulls and Amstaffs didn't really arrive till about the mid 90s and when the Amstaffs were first shown there were some incidents with the dogs but even more so with the owners who often seemed more aggressive than their dogs. Some of the terrier people were not at all happy about the breed being introduced to the group at the time. Thankfully since then some long time breeders of other breeds seem to have taken an interest and managed to produce some dogs with better temperament so as the numbers increased the problems decreased.

Really well said. And now it seems to be declining again more in pits than ams