Muscle Pro Versus K9 Super Fuel?

[Chequeredblackdog]

Reggie and I are just starting to get into some agility, and we are starting a 'beginners flyball course next week. :D

I would like to help him tone/ bulk up and increase his fitness so he will be better able to cope with the stressors of more/ harder work. Which will likely continue to increase as we get more into it (if he enjoys it)

He isn't the biggest eater and keeping condition on him is hard enough at present. So I'm wondering which supplement would be best?

More info:

Reggie is a 16(ish) month old Kelpie who is very tall, lean and leggy.

He is fed a combination of Royal Canin 4800 and raw. he also gets fish oil and other extras, and is currently on K9 show stopper.

He gets walked 5 days a week, an off leash run at the very least twice a week, we also do training most days at home and go to obedience/ agility once or twice a week as well.

Any suggestions?

[Jumabaar]

Oooh where are you doing flyball?

I cant help regarding supplements- I use Vets All Natural as extra calories but even then my two up and coming flyball monsters are still skinny weeds. I find that until they hit 2yrs of age they tend to work all the extra calories off regardless of how much I feed them!!

I found this article interesting http://www.hilarywatson.com/athletes.pdf and now feed a slightly higher fat diet than I did prior, particularly during summer.

ETA- another article although funded by a pet food company still some good info http://www.purinavets.eu/PDFs/ResearchReport_vol9-issue1.pdf

Edited October 30, 2012 by Jumabaar

[megan_]

Be aware that SuperFuel doesn't agree with all dogs as it is high in fat (~30%). Even though I introduced it very slowly he had horrible, mucousy diarrhea. However, if he is on K9 showstopper he might be fine.

If you want to get your boy in top shape for agility, I recommend doing muscle building exercises. Look up some FitPaws demos on Youtube. You just need to do these for a few minutes a day (this is better than less frequent, longer sessions). You can even build up muscle by getting him to sit/drop/stand on a piece of thick foam for a few minutes a day.

Some other ideas:

* Leash walking is better for building hind leg strength than off leash running (which is good for cardio). This is because leash walking forces a dog to use his back legs. If you can walk him on leash at the beach on the softer sand that is even better. Ditto for walking up hills.

* Get some of the Susan Salo jumping DVD's and teach your boy how to jump properly. This might sound silly because dogs know how to jump, but technique can really make a difference to injury levels. You need to teach a dog learns to use his hind legs.

* Hind leg awareness exercises (look up here in the training forum as their are plently of posts).

Snook also started a thread on the health section on building muscle which may be an interesting read.

FWIW, my dog's physio said that by far flyball is the sport that she sees most injured dogs for.

[Kavik]

Can't help with supplements - I've never had my dog use any.

To add to megan's post - body awareness exercises! Balance discs, walking backwards, hind end awareness stuff, etc, helps the dog to be able to use his body better. My fellow found the balance discs tricky to start with - can now stand with either both front feet on one disc, both back feet on one disc or front feet on one disc and back feet on another disc. ETA: I haven't yet tried all 4 feet on one disc.

Edited October 30, 2012 by Kavik

[Jumabaar]

Be aware that SuperFuel doesn't agree with all dogs as it is high in fat (~30%). Even though I introduced it very slowly he had horrible, mucousy diarrhea. However, if he is on K9 showstopper he might be fine.

If you want to get your boy in top shape for agility, I recommend doing muscle building exercises. Look up some FitPaws demos on Youtube. You just need to do these for a few minutes a day (this is better than less frequent, longer sessions). You can even build up muscle by getting him to sit/drop/stand on a piece of thick foam for a few minutes a day.

Some other ideas:

* Leash walking is better for building hind leg strength than off leash running (which is good for cardio). This is because leash walking forces a dog to use his back legs. If you can walk him on leash at the beach on the softer sand that is even better. Ditto for walking up hills.

* Get some of the Susan Salo jumping DVD's and teach your boy how to jump properly. This might sound silly because dogs know how to jump, but technique can really make a difference to injury levels. You need to teach a dog learns to use his hind legs.

* Hind leg awareness exercises (look up here in the training forum as their are plently of posts).

Snook also started a thread on the health section on building muscle which may be an interesting read.

FWIW, my dog's physio said that by far flyball is the sport that she sees most injured dogs for.

re injuries- it doesnt surprise me with the turns some dogs have and the weight people think its OK to compete them at. Also the lack of training outside training and general body conditioning.

[Rebanne]

Muscle Pro is not for daily long term use, that's my interpretation of the instructions on the tin. It is used for 7 to 10 days at a time.

[Chequeredblackdog]

Thanks guys, yes we have started working on body awareness exercises. I have the "building the canine athlete" DVD, a couple of books and quite a few websites bookmarked :D

I want to do it right so I can hopefully minimise any potential injuries for him (and me! I'm much less coordinated/ fit than he is!)

Jumbaar, we are doing flyball in Bathurst, I can't for the live of me remember the name of the club! >.<

I do try to give him a good range of varying exercise. Onleash and off, we have some good hills around so do a fair bit of hill work. Unfortunately I am no where near a beach, im in Orange. though I taking him swimming in the creek and dam. (Well he swims, I don't!) he is a very good swimmer and will happily swim out after a ball.

Rebanne, thank you, I didn't know that, I haven't taken a good look at the packaging when I've seen it.

[Jumabaar]

Thanks guys, yes we have started working on body awareness exercises. I have the "building the canine athlete" DVD, a couple of books and quite a few websites bookmarked :D

I want to do it right so I can hopefully minimise any potential injuries for him (and me! I'm much less coordinated/ fit than he is!)

Jumbaar, we are doing flyball in Bathurst, I can't for the live of me remember the name of the club! >.<

I do try to give him a good range of varying exercise. Onleash and off, we have some good hills around so do a fair bit of hill work. Unfortunately I am no where near a beach, im in Orange. though I taking him swimming in the creek and dam. (Well he swims, I don't!) he is a very good swimmer and will happily swim out after a ball.

Rebanne, thank you, I didn't know that, I haven't taken a good look at the packaging when I've seen it.

Bathurst will be a great club- its new so I dont know the name either but know the person who is running it.

Oh and your right about the human injuries- I have seen far far far far more injuries/stacks to the humans than I have to the dogs :laugh:

[Rebanne]

Rebanne, thank you, I didn't know that, I haven't taken a good look at the packaging when I've seen it.

I've just had a good read of mine and it is not for everyday use. All the instructions are about using it for several days at a time then using again in 2 - 3 weeks. FWIW I've had great results with it. Or maybe not as I've only ever used it on one dog and no telling that he wouldn't have been like he is anyway cause he does get plenty of work :D

[Nekhbet]

I use Muscle pro and no, it's not for every day use. You use it a week at a time like Rebanne said but really thats all you need. Look into the Sprinter Gold Energy E oil, it's cheaper then any other fish oil you will find and it's magic stuff. The ACE is an antioxidant you can use before exercise with a meal, I also use Recharge when training and for my bitch that ended up with acidosis I found that Neutradex worked a treat. Before you go too far into supplements get some advice, especially if you want to use some of the more specialty greyhound ones.

Meantime they're best price from www.greyhoundproductsdirect.com.au

Your dog is still young, watch giving him too much 'high energy' and energy giving foods as it increases activity levels which in turn decreases weight gain. I was warned by a Royal Canin rep an already hyperactive dog can just be more active and not conditioned on the 4800, that too is 30% fat so watch adding more oils to the diet :)

At least yours has the excuse of a picky eater, mine eat like horses and still go through skinny minny stages.

[Chequeredblackdog]

Thanks for that Nekhbet, I didn't think about the 4800 making him MORE active. He isn't fed solely 4800 though, and on the 'raw days' I haven't noticed a difference in his activity levels.

In regards to being picky, he isn't 'picky' as such, but only eats what he feels he needs. Other stuff is generally much more interesting than food! I think I could give him the choice of a leg of roast lamb and a ball and he would choose the ball every time!

[Nekhbet]

Feed him indoors with little stimulus and also use them as a way of teaching him to chill out, have a meal and sit on it so he doesnt develop gastric upsets too. You may find he ups his intake. Feeding times and ratios are really important for the long term physical health of your dog particularly if you want to do a lot of structured activity with him :) Look into the sprinter gold, it may be worth just a raw diet then for him as you can fiddle more with the protein vs carb levels and can add you additives. Personally he's still growing, so I wouldnt go too crazy with supplements and high energy diets for a little more, as long as it's enough to keep him up and going he will grow into a more mature look in a few months :)