Vegan Pets?

[Diva]

That's interesting Espinay. I read a while back a paper that compared the milk of dogs and wolves and found that dog's milk had a different fat/protein composition, although I'd stress that the differences were not large.

Have you ever come across that research? I can't find the paper now, it's been a few years.

(apologies if this is too off topic, it's a far way off the vegan question)

As far as I can remember, there is one study conducted in the late 60's which sampled one arctic wolf with a comparison made to two dogs, and a variation was found between them. More studies have been done just on dogs and there have been a variation in results between them as well. I would note that in this context no real comparison has been done on the effects of maternal diet on these results. Though there are other studies looking at individual effects on milk composition of maternal diet, for example in relation to long chain polyunsaturated fatty acid content. Mech does mention that some commercial dog milk replacement formulas are too low in arginine for wolves and pups may develop cateracts without additional arginine supplementation. However, this issue is not restricted to wolves: http://jn.nutrition.org/content/132/6/1688S.short

Thanks

[Nekhbet]

Vegans and vegetarians get defensive because they get questioned and challenged constantly. And teased a lot. In the 20+ years I was a vego I didn't once tell someone that they shouldn't eat meat but had to deal with people constantly trying to trip me up. Did I use leather etc etc

I wouldn't eat a humanely raised and killed cow. I feed meat to my dogs. And I fed meat to the hubby. A friend used to give me bones from her cows, humanely raised and killed. I struggled more feeding those bones than I did the ones from the supermarket. As I knew the cows. I was a vego because I am a sook though not because of any environmental issues. You are going to get different answers to your question depending on why the person is a vego/vegan.

I'm genuinely interested in the thought process of such an extreme diet for a dog that does not require it medically. Keeping chickens for eggs by definition is not a vegan ideal I thought so if the dogs are getting eggs why not give them humanely raised meat? Again, chemical wise it cant just be the issue since the dogs are not fed a 100% certified organic diet.

By the way certified organic does not mean chemical FREE it means residues are below a threshold level in some cases.

[kayla1]

I actually asked a question about what your thought process was. Why are vegans so defensive all the time?

Again I was asking would you have a problem feeding your dogs a home made diet if you saw the animals were raised humanely and killed humanely.

Vegans and vegetarians get defensive because they get questioned and challenged constantly. And teased a lot. In the 20+ years I was a vego I didn't once tell someone that they shouldn't eat meat but had to deal with people constantly trying to trip me up. Did I use leather etc etc

I wouldn't eat a humanely raised and killed cow. I feed meat to my dogs. And I fed meat to the hubby. A friend used to give me bones from her cows, humanely raised and killed. I struggled more feeding those bones than I did the ones from the supermarket. As I knew the cows. I was a vego because I am a sook though not because of any environmental issues. You are going to get different answers to your question depending on why the person is a vego/vegan.

Agree with this! I've been vegetarian for 26 years and have had countless people who, for some reason or another, think it is their right to question or challenge my choice not to eat meat. Like you, not once have I attempted to force my views on to anyone else. Whether the next person chooses to eat meat or not is not my concern, and I have no interest in questioning others why they do eat meat. Those that choose not to eat certain foods should not be made to feel as if they need to justify their choice. Fortunately though it has become more accepted, compared to when I first became vegetarian, and I find not as many people question it now.

[chuckandsteve]

I actually asked a question about what your thought process was. Why are vegans so defensive all the time?

Again I was asking would you have a problem feeding your dogs a home made diet if you saw the animals were raised humanely and killed humanely.

Vegans and vegetarians get defensive because they get questioned and challenged constantly. And teased a lot. In the 20+ years I was a vego I didn't once tell someone that they shouldn't eat meat but had to deal with people constantly trying to trip me up. Did I use leather etc etc

I wouldn't eat a humanely raised and killed cow. I feed meat to my dogs. And I fed meat to the hubby. A friend used to give me bones from her cows, humanely raised and killed. I struggled more feeding those bones than I did the ones from the supermarket. As I knew the cows. I was a vego because I am a sook though not because of any environmental issues. You are going to get different answers to your question depending on why the person is a vego/vegan.

Agree with this! I've been vegetarian for 26 years and have had countless people who, for some reason or another, think it is their right to question or challenge my choice not to eat meat. Like you, not once have I attempted to force my views on to anyone else. Whether the next person chooses to eat meat or not is not my concern, and I have no interest in questioning others why they do eat meat. Those that choose not to eat certain foods should not be made to feel as if they need to justify their choice. Fortunately though it has become more accepted, compared to when I first became vegetarian, and I find not as many people question it now.

Very well said. I never bring the topic up but it seems to be a constant conversation in my life. Your correct vegetarian people are dealing better with but not vegan.

Edited November 2, 2012 by chuckandsteve

[espinay2]

Personally I don't care if a person chooses to eat meat or not (and was vegetarian myself for a while). A person has the right and the capacity to choose what they put into their own body.

The case of the dog is different though as they do not have the capacity to choose for themselves because we have taken that right away from them.

There is therefore a GREATER responsibility when it comes to feeding a dog than when it comes to feeding ourselves.

The two really can't be compared.

[trojka]

Because nothing about the domestic dog is as nature would have it. If you live in an apartment is that not ok for a dog as nature would have them live outside? If they are happy and healthy whats the problem?

And that is not a reason I would accept.

Actually, it is natural for a domestic dog to live with humans, that's why it's called a domestic dog. The fact that we no longer live in caves, and some of us live in apartments, to me says more about how far we have moved away from what is natural, and certainly doesn't mean we should change our pets' diet. Some things have changed between when wild dogs/wolves started to become domesticated and now. Their digestive systems and dietary requirements don't seem to be one of them.

Vegans and vegetarians get defensive because they get questioned and challenged constantly. And teased a lot. In the 20+ years I was a vego I didn't once tell someone that they shouldn't eat meat but had to deal with people constantly trying to trip me up. Did I use leather etc etc

I wouldn't eat a humanely raised and killed cow. I feed meat to my dogs. And I fed meat to the hubby. A friend used to give me bones from her cows, humanely raised and killed. I struggled more feeding those bones than I did the ones from the supermarket. As I knew the cows. I was a vego because I am a sook though not because of any environmental issues. You are going to get different answers to your question depending on why the person is a vego/vegan.

I'm genuinely interested in the thought process of such an extreme diet for a dog that does not require it medically. Keeping chickens for eggs by definition is not a vegan ideal I thought so if the dogs are getting eggs why not give them humanely raised meat? Again, chemical wise it cant just be the issue since the dogs are not fed a 100% certified organic diet.

By the way certified organic does not mean chemical FREE it means residues are below a threshold level in some cases.

This. And not just the chickens, the same goes for the dogs.

And I have met plenty of "missionary" vegetarians and vegans (although vegans less so, as they tend to realise that their way of living is a bit more extreme than what most people are willing to do) who try and guilt trip meat eaters. On the other hand, I have never questioned my vegetarian/vegan friends' choices (although I do like to discuss them) as, like I said, I have huge respect for vegans in particular. I draw the line when people choose to "break the rules of veganism" in certain areas, such as keeping pets, but then force their rules on said pets.

[kayla1]

Personally I don't care if a person chooses to eat meat or not (and was vegetarian myself for a while). A person has the right and the capacity to choose what they put into their own body.

The case of the dog is different though as they do not have the capacity to choose for themselves because we have taken that right away from them.

There is therefore a GREATER responsibility when it comes to feeding a dog than when it comes to feeding ourselves.

The two really can't be compared.

No they can't be compared, which is why I have always fed my dogs meat.

But even though I do believe in feeding meat to dogs (where possible), I'm not inclined to get up in arms about someone who chooses not to, simply because IMPO there are far worse things that can happen.

[Crisovar]

Personally I don't care if a person chooses to eat meat or not (and was vegetarian myself for a while). A person has the right and the capacity to choose what they put into their own body.

The case of the dog is different though as they do not have the capacity to choose for themselves because we have taken that right away from them.

There is therefore a GREATER responsibility when it comes to feeding a dog than when it comes to feeding ourselves.

The two really can't be compared.

A like button is needed here.

[Guest Labradork]

Personally I don't care if a person chooses to eat meat or not (and was vegetarian myself for a while). A person has the right and the capacity to choose what they put into their own body.

The case of the dog is different though as they do not have the capacity to choose for themselves because we have taken that right away from them.

There is therefore a GREATER responsibility when it comes to feeding a dog than when it comes to feeding ourselves.

The two really can't be compared.

Yes, yes!

Very well put, espinay2. This is what I was trying to say earlier.