raz Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 It probably hasn't occured to you because you aren't veg*n - but it's probably crossed the mind of most veg*ns ;) What's with the asterix, Max? I eat vegan food these these days for health reasons but I certainly dont impose it on my dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minimax Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 (edited) It probably hasn't occured to you because you aren't veg*n - but it's probably crossed the mind of most veg*ns ;) What's with the asterix, Max? I eat vegan food these these days for health reasons but I certainly dont impose it on my dogs. Sorry, it's just habit. In the vegetarian & vegan community it's common to splat or hypenate the word so it can stand for vegan or vegetarian without having to write both of them out. Edited October 30, 2012 by minimax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackJaq Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 (edited) Can I ask what the reasons are for wanting to feed a dog a fully vegan diet? Obviously if it is about not wanting to kill another animal for food then there is not much that can be done but if there are "only" concerns as to how ethically the animal was raised, maybe raising your own rabbits or guinea pigs or even chickens for meat might be an option? The reason I ask is that I don't believe anybody would want to feed their dog a vegan diet simply because they believe it is healthier for the dog unless the dog has a medical condition? Or is that the reasoning? If so, I wonder why? I am not trying to offend anyone, just seriously wondering since it has never occurred to me to not feed my dog any animal products, seeing as dogs have been consuming animal "products" (probably mostly meat) for as long as they existed as a species? It seems a little like attempting to feed pigs a purely meat diet? Sure, they are all "omnivores" (not everybody agrees that dogs are, indeed omnivores actually), but that does not necessarily make a diet of only eg or only meat healthy? I would prefer to live a "no kill" lifestyle across the board, I choose to not use products that test on animals as much as possible (ie: the ones that admit to it!) or eat animal products, but in choosing to own dogs I choose to feed them meat. Some people don't want to make the sacrifice in their pets lives and want to continue their "no kill" lifestyle (or whatever term they choose to use) by feeding their pets a veg*n diet. It probably hasn't occured to you because you aren't veg*n - but it's probably crossed the mind of most veg*ns ;) Well it has occurred to me, even though I eat meat, otherwise I would not have mentioned it as a reason :) So if the "no kill" lifestyle is that goal, maybe a dog or cat is not an ideal pet? ETA: Also, with a "no kill" lifestyle, why does the diet have to be vegan? No cow has to die to produce milk? And if a hen is not run with a rooster then the eggs do not contain a valid foetus either? Edited October 30, 2012 by BlackJaq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkhe Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 It probably hasn't occured to you because you aren't veg*n - but it's probably crossed the mind of most veg*ns ;) What's with the asterix, Max? I eat vegan food these these days for health reasons but I certainly dont impose it on my dogs. The asterisk means either vegan or vegetarian, so replaces the 'ega' or 'egaria' :) Minimax, I totally agree with everything you've said. I hate handling the raw meet k feed the dogs, but hey, they need it. So I put up with it! Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minimax Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 (edited) Can I ask what the reasons are for wanting to feed a dog a fully vegan diet? Obviously if it is about not wanting to kill another animal for food then there is not much that can be done but if there are "only" concerns as to how ethically the animal was raised, maybe raising your own rabbits or guinea pigs or even chickens for meat might be an option? The reason I ask is that I don't believe anybody would want to feed their dog a vegan diet simply because they believe it is healthier for the dog unless the dog has a medical condition? Or is that the reasoning? If so, I wonder why? I am not trying to offend anyone, just seriously wondering since it has never occurred to me to not feed my dog any animal products, seeing as dogs have been consuming animal "products" (probably mostly meat) for as long as they existed as a species? It seems a little like attempting to feed pigs a purely meat diet? Sure, they are all "omnivores" (not everybody agrees that dogs are, indeed omnivores actually), but that does not necessarily make a diet of only eg or only meat healthy? I would prefer to live a "no kill" lifestyle across the board, I choose to not use products that test on animals as much as possible (ie: the ones that admit to it!) or eat animal products, but in choosing to own dogs I choose to feed them meat. Some people don't want to make the sacrifice in their pets lives and want to continue their "no kill" lifestyle (or whatever term they choose to use) by feeding their pets a veg*n diet. It probably hasn't occured to you because you aren't veg*n - but it's probably crossed the mind of most veg*ns ;) Well it has occurred to me, even though I eat meat, otherwise I would not have mentioned it as a reason :) So if the "no kill" lifestyle is that goal, maybe a dog or cat is not an ideal pet? In your post you said it hadn't occured to you. I don't think it's up to you to judge whether someone should have a animal just because of their beliefs. If someone wants to feed their animal a certain diet, and it doesn't hurt them - so what? edit: I'm not going to get into an ethical debate with you over a "no kill" or vegan/vegetarian lifestyle. Edited October 30, 2012 by minimax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Sorry, it's just habit. In the vegetarian & vegan community it's common to splat or hypenate the word so it can stand for vegan or vegetarian without having to write both of them out. Hey dont be sorry, Max. I was just curious. It's not a swear word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dame Aussie Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 (edited) Blackjaq, dairy products and eggs are not cruelty free, look up battery hens. it's a bit OT so I won't get into it further but if you do some research you'll see what I mean. Edited October 30, 2012 by Aussie3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackJaq Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 (edited) Well no commercial animal products are cruelty free but there are some humane alternatives? Certified free range and such? Everybody seems to think I don't know where animal products come from because I use them? I actually raise a lot of my own animals for my own consumption and for my pets as well because I don't agree with how a lot of animals are raised :) I don't suppose anybody has found any studies that might answer the OP question? Edit: Re battery hens: I am well aware and keep my own chickens on free range. Edited October 30, 2012 by BlackJaq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckandsteve Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Vegan is basically cruelty free lifestlye, we treat both cows and chickens horridly here in order to make maximum profit. Treating animals ethically is not a way to make mone as most dogs breeders will tell you hence why most ethical breeders make no money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dame Aussie Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 (edited) Well no commercial animal products are cruelty free but there are some humane alternatives? Certified free range and such? Everybody seems to think I don't know where animal products come from because I use them? I actually raise a lot of my own animals for my own consumption and for my pets as well because I don't agree with how a lot of animals are raised :) I don't suppose anybody has found any studies that might answer the OP question? Edit: Re battery hens: I am well aware and keep my own chickens on free range. I really wasn't implying you didn't know anything. That's great you raise your own meat and eggs...problem is most people don't Edited October 30, 2012 by Aussie3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackJaq Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 (edited) So is there any difference between animal protein and plant protein? Can you buy artificial protein? I know my OH uses a supplementary protein powder for himself but never considered that this might be a viable alternative to other sources or protein? Are there other things contained in animal products that dogs would miss out on on an animal product free diet? I cant imagine the protein would be the only thing they need? Edited October 30, 2012 by BlackJaq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dame Aussie Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 (edited) The only thing that has been shown to be deficient in a vegan diet is vitamin B12, and supplements are available, this is for humans, I'm not sure about dogs? Protein is protein, a good vegan source is pea protein, but beans/legumes give enough. Edited October 30, 2012 by Aussie3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackJaq Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 (edited) Do veggies have to be artificially broken down to help the dogs digestive tract digest them? It seems many veggies that my dogs like to eat come out the way they went in as the dogs don't (or can't) chew them enough. What about their teeth? Many people seem to be of the opinion that only large meaty bones will thoroughly clean a dogs teeth? I realize there are denta chews and things like that but they seem to go down awfully quickly. Antlers are also animal products? Not sure about doggie tooth paste but most seem to be flavoured (i.e. chicken etc) so probably also contain animal products? Edited October 30, 2012 by BlackJaq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Labradork Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 I was a vegetarian for many years, but now I eat chicken and fish. I fed my dogs raw meaty bones, etc while I was a vego and still do. I only handle meat when it is partly frozen (it is less blood-and-gutsy) and I wear latex gloves :laugh: I draw the line at handling offal, though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espinay2 Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 (edited) "Comparison of effects of vegetable protein diet and animal protein diet on the initiation of anemia during vigorous physical training (sports anemia) in dogs and rats." http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/3612320 "Nutritional and Ethical Issues Regarding Vegetarianism in the Domestic Dog" http://www.une.edu.a...etarian-dog.pdf This one makes no real conclusions, but is an interesting read, particularly in relation to the ethical issues. though I guess it depends how someone views the diet of 'production animals' as to whether they agree or not with the opinion, as this in itself raises an ethical issue. In regards to taurine, which is negligible to non-existent in plant based foods (but abundant in animal products, in particular red meat), the following articles are relevant in relation to the link between taurine deficiency and cardiomyopathy: (a vegan diet would have to be supplemented artificially with taurine) "Taurine deficiency in Newfoundlands fed commercially available complete and balanced diets" http://avmajournals....urnalCode=javma "Taurine status in normal dogs fed a commercial diet associated with taurine deficiency and dilated cardiomyopathy http://www.vetmed.uc...pdfs/Torres.pdf Edited October 30, 2012 by espinay2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaCC Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 (edited) That's the stupidest thing that anyone can do to their pets. And I've met people like that too, unfortunately there is often no reasoning with them. Technically a dog could survive on a vegan diet, but it sure as hell won't be healthy (unless it's to battle a meat allergy). Go study animal and veterinary anatomy if you don't agree. Cats fed a vegan or vegetarian diet will die. There is no way around It. Unlike dogs they need that extra essential amino Acid Taurine only found in red meat (or redbull :) ). It's called an ESSENTIAL amino acid for a reason. Edited October 30, 2012 by LisaCC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mixeduppup Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Alicia Silverstone is an advocate for Vegan Pets, I think it's crazy to feed animals that are mostly carnivorous on a vegan diet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minimax Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 That's the stupidest thing that anyone can do to their pets. And I've met people like that too, unfortunately there is often no reasoning with them. Technically a dog could survive on a vegan diet, but it sure as hell won't be healthy. Cats fed a vegan or vegetarian diet will die. There is no way around It. Unlike dogs they need that extra essential amino Taurine only found in red meat (or redbull :) ). It's called an ESSENTIAL amino acid or a reason. Argh these people frustrate me!! that's got to be the funniest thing I've heard all day. Maybe all week. Have you not heard of seaweed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckandsteve Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 "Comparison of effects of vegetable protein diet and animal protein diet on the initiation of anemia during vigorous physical training (sports anemia) in dogs and rats." http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/3612320 "Nutritional and Ethical Issues Regarding Vegetarianism in the Domestic Dog" http://www.une.edu.a...etarian-dog.pdf This one makes no real conclusions, but is an interesting read, particularly in relation to the ethical issues. though I guess it depends how someone views the diet of 'production animals' as to whether they agree or not with the opinion, as this in itself raises an ethical issue. In regards to taurine, which is negligible to non-existent in plant based foods (but abundant in animal products, in particular red meat), the following articles are relevant in relation to the link between taurine deficiency and cardiomyopathy: (a vegan diet would have to be supplemented artificially with taurine) "Taurine deficiency in Newfoundlands fed commercially available complete and balanced diets" http://avmajournals....urnalCode=javma "Taurine status in normal dogs fed a commercial diet associated with taurine deficiency and dilated cardiomyopathy http://www.vetmed.uc...pdfs/Torres.pdf These seem quite good and quite balanced Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mantis Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 If i could pick between vegies or gelati for dinner as a child it would be the gelati, doesnt mean anything just that a dog cant make an informed decision, no suprises there. If someone knows what they are doing there is no issues having a vegan dog, and no one so far has come up with a legimate reason not to, other than they personally dont like it but we live is Australia so unless the dog is suffering thts not valid. Well that's great that you would rather have gelati than basic nutrition but not really relevant to this discussion. A dog would not choose gelati over what's hard wired into their brain to eat if they are hungry. It's not rocket science and has nothing to do with what people personally dont like. Dogs are omnivores. Their gut is designed for that. Eat what you like but dont impose it on your dog or cat, which you have said you dont so good for you. Anyone who does is a boring hipster if they're just doing it for fad rather than health reasons, and I would call them an animal abuser. It doesnt need a science project to understand why dogs and cats are not vegans! Just seems like more shit from animal 'rights' activists who, by their own philosphy, shouldnt even own pets. While they're bleating about how animals in captivity are abused by humans not only do they own pets but use pharmaceuticals tested on animals. Hypocritical much? Have to disagree on the bolded part of your post, Kenny would choose gelato or ice cream before meat, he had a sweet tooth. :laugh: I'm not sure with my new girl, I haven't tested her yet as it hasn't been the weather for it. I agree with the rest of your post though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now