Jednkirrasmummy Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 I am new to this forum but I am in desperate need of information and advice. My 12 week old husky puppy has been diagnosed 4 days ago (monday) with an intrahepatic liver shunt. They started him On medication and once he was stable, he came home with us the next day tuesday. We continued giving him his medication and started him on a low protein diet. He was crying and walking around aimlessly and this didn't stop so we took him back to the emergency vet on essendon. He stayed there overnight and came home again the next day Wednesday by Thursday he was almost back to his usual happy self! Then today Friday, he began to act strange again, walking aimlessly very slowly and head pressing, when I noticed him foaming at the Mouth I put him in the car to take him back to essendon emergency. On the way , he began to have seizures which was themist terrifying thing I have ever seen. I didn't think he would make it to the vet. He did, they stabilised him and told us he was blind , and that it may or may not be temporary. He is booked in for his surgery on Wednesday, but we are too terrified to bring him Home before then in case he seizures again, and we live about an hour from The emergency vet. We are also in a very difficult position as the surgeon said now that he has had seizures, he is more likely to have them after the surgery. Apparently the surgery has a 70% success rate. I dont want to put this poor little puppy through any more pain. It is a possibility survey may not work and he may continue to suffer. My partner and I would appreciate any information and advice anyone could give we have been in tears for days and are heartbroken that our little man is going through this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 Hello, sorry you are going through this. I have a border collie with multiple shunts, which means she can't be operated on. She has had a lot of the symptoms that you describe and it is very distressing to watch. The seizures etc are caused when toxins build up in the brain. If the shunt operation is successful then I can't see any reason for your pup to have seizures after the operation. My understanding is the dog is normal after the operation if it works. I'm controlling my dog with medication and food and she hasn't had a seizure for over a year. I get a few head pressing issues still. The operation doesn't always work and sometimes dogs don't make it through the op. Has the specialist told you all this? One of our members has a dog that had the operation successfully, I'll try and get her to talk to you too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoofnHoof Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 Hi there I've replied to your PM but I will add a bit more info too, Jules is correct the seizures should stop once the liver is doing the job it's meant to do, when my husky fell into a coma at the time it was I diagnosed he had also started with the pacing and head pressing, when he came out of the coma he couldn't see or hear and the vets didn't know if he would have long term damage but he recovered well enough to be diagnosed and have the surgery. Maybe they were talking about post-op seizures? These are a pretty major risk with this type of surgery I don't know whether the risk is higher if they have had a seizure but like I said my boy had one and the vets didn't mention anything about an increased risk for him just that there is a risk for all dogs undergoing this surgery. When my boy was done the success rate for the surgery was about 50/50 so it looks like the odds are getting better. Did they explain what type of surgery they are planning to do? At the time (2007) they weren't having good results with the ameroid constrictor rings which are good for extra hepatic shunts so they used a simple partial ligation of the shunt vessel closing it off partway to reduce the blood flow through the shot and increase the amount of blood going to the liver. As a result there is a danger of portal hypertension which is caused by the liver not coping with the new workload, that is the risk but the younger dogs do better as the liver is still good, after a few years an unused liver will start to shrink. So anyway the long and the short of it is the operation is costly and risky but if it works and there is no residual brain damage from the seizures then you should have a perfectly normal husky, there are no guarantees so you need to be aware of that but my dog is proof that when it works it works well and he returned a perfectly normal biochemistry profile a few months after the surgery on a normal diet (he is the redhead in my signature pic) :) I'm assuming that they've put him on lactulose, antibiotics and Hills L/D? That's the standard treatment as far as I can tell, it helps but it doesn't fix the problem that's why he's still having symptoms. See if you can get onto one of the specialists at the Sydney Uni vet centre that used to work with Dr Geraldine Hunt, she's the best so hopefully someone there will give you a bit more info mine is possibly a bit out of date being 5 years ago my guy had the surgery. Hope that helps and I hope your boy is feeling better soon :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 Before you spend any more money also contact the breeder and let them know what is going on. Personally with a 12 week old puppy, if I was the breeder, I would ask for the puppy to returned and pts or offer a refund of the purchase price to go towards the cost of surgery. The breeder is not to blame because liver shunts can be difficult to detect and pretty much impossible to avoid but for the puppy to be affected this young, it must have been sold with this congenital defect. Others may think differently but I tend to believe that you shouldn't be spending more on fixing a defective puppy under 6 months, than it cost in the first place. Better to give them their wings and start again with a healthy puppy. Good luck with whatever decision you make as only you can make that decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 Hi How awful for you, seeing this puppy so ill. I will also ask - has his breeder been notified? You obviously have fallen in love with this pup ... and I know that feeling well :) There is lots to consider regarding agreeing to surgery/treatment - you and the breeder need to discuss all the options with the vet/specialist ..and decide which road you're taking... Not easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 The puppy must be pretty bad to be displaying those sort of symptoms at 12 weeks. Amber didn't start having seizures until her liver had died to about quarter of the size it should be. The symptoms she had as a pup were pretty vague. The cost of the Op is $5000+. I think I agree with Dancinbcs Very hard to do though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jednkirrasmummy Posted October 26, 2012 Author Share Posted October 26, 2012 I haven't notified the breeder yet, as I keep hearing conflicting things- that it wouldn't be their fault and they couldn't have possibly known - and that we should tell them because they shouldn't breed the parents anymore. Either way, we would never just take him back and ask for our money back. I will call them today but I doubt they will give us a refund to help with all of our costs. The surgeon did tell us that he may not make it through surgery, I would just feel horrible denying him of a 70% chance for a normal life. But then again, if it doesn't work, I can't bear to see him go through any more suffering. I just want to do the best thing for him regardless of money or anything else. I just don't know what that is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 Unless the breeders are breeding with a dog that has a liver shunt that they know about then no it isn't their fault. It is just one of those sucky things that happen. There are signs. The puppy is usually small and will be a fussy eater. But at that age you don't tend to think it is anything sinister. The breeder does need to be told though. And a good breeder will offer support. Deciding whether to do the surgery is your choice alone. People can only tell you what they would do. If he survives the surgery but the shunt doesn't close properly then you will be in the same position as me. Special (expensive) diet for the rest of the dog's life. Various medications. Several small meals a day. Worming, vaccinations etc can upset the liver and are not recommended. If the dog gets sick with something else it is hard to treat it. Operations are a problem as the dog may not survive a general. The dog will be skinny as it is hard to get weight on a dog with liver issues. Saying all that my girl is very happy and has a great life but it is hard work and a constant source of worry. Lifespan is also dramatically reduced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 Please contact the breeder ..they do need to know ....perhaps they have seen it before and can offer help/suggestions.... perhaps they have never heard of it ..and so now know it can happen . he is/was 'their' puppy ..and , if I was his breeder, I would be very upset if I was not told this was happening. I hope you are taking care of yourself .... My decision would more than likely be to give this little guy his wings , and be glad that he was no longer suffering . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoofnHoof Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 The puppy must be pretty bad to be displaying those sort of symptoms at 12 weeks. Amber didn't start having seizures until her liver had died to about quarter of the size it should be. The symptoms she had as a pup were pretty vague. The cost of the Op is $5000+. I think I agree with Dancinbcs Very hard to do though. I think the severity of the symptoms can depend on the type of food as my guy got worse when he was on a higher quality puppy kibble (obviously higher protein than the el cheapo stuff he got prior to that) his symptoms were classic shunt but as they popped up at different times in different ways it took a long time for us to put together a diagnosis initially I just thought he had an upset tummy. I was quoted between $3 and $6k for the surgery, they don't know until they get in there how hard or easy it will be to get to, mine ended up at $5k because they had to follow the shunt through the diaphragm and shut down breathing etc, it was a very long op and then 3 days on 24 hour seizure watch but that was all included, I wasn't allowed to see him in that time so he didn't get too excited. If it doesn't finish closing off completely they can do another surgery to finish the job, I used to have a heap of papers with the stats on survival rates etc but my external hard drive has gone AWOL so I'm not sure where they are but f you google a bit you can often find veterinary papers on it they give some good info. It's hard to know I don't know anyone else whose had the surgery so I've only got my experience which obviously colours my view, at the time the decision was easy to make because I had a sick dog and that was the only thing that could fix him long term so I took the punt knowing the risks and now you would never know anything had been wrong with him his hair hides the scar running right down his chest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jednkirrasmummy Posted October 26, 2012 Author Share Posted October 26, 2012 Woofnhoof your experience gives me so much hope but still don't know what to do, I know no one can tell me what to do its just so hard.. Just got a call from the vet saying he has done really well overnight, hasn't had any more seizures since the ones in the car yesterday. The surgery is scheduled for Wednesday but they are talking with the specialist about if they should give him more time to recover since he had a seizure. We are just too scared to bring him home in case he does again. Such a scary thing to see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 This group helped me a lot when Amber was diagnosed. They are mainly overseas folks so take a bit of time to reply. You need to get your membership approved before you can read or post. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/DogLiverShuntandDisease/messages Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 I haven't notified the breeder yet, as I keep hearing conflicting things- that it wouldn't be their fault and they couldn't have possibly known - and that we should tell them because they shouldn't breed the parents anymore. Either way, we would never just take him back and ask for our money back. I will call them today but I doubt they will give us a refund to help with all of our costs. The surgeon did tell us that he may not make it through surgery, I would just feel horrible denying him of a 70% chance for a normal life. But then again, if it doesn't work, I can't bear to see him go through any more suffering. I just want to do the best thing for him regardless of money or anything else. I just don't know what that is! Please contact the breeder asap. You have had this puppy for just 4 weeks but they nurtured him for 8 weeks. They need to know and be consulted. If I was the breeder I would much prefer the puppy be returned as it has only been gone a few weeks and most breeders I am friends with would feel the same way. Dogs have multiple offspring because nature never intended for them all to survive. As JulesP said, unless they are breeding with an affected dog then this is sheer bad luck for them and for you. I know you think you are attached to this puppy but it is nothing like the attachment you get to a dog you have raised until adulthood or have owned for several years. If this was a 2 year old dog then I think you do whatever you can but with a new puppy there is a lot more to consider. If the surgery works, all well and good but if it doesn't are you prepared to pts or live with a permanently ill dog? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 We are just too scared to bring him home in case he does again. Such a scary thing to see It can be ... Think about what may happen if he has surgery , and problems while recovering ... if you have him at home, are you going to be nervous wrecks ...watching/ anticipating/worrying ? For how long? Are you prepared for high extra costs of hospitalisation if something doesn't go as planned ? Heart V Head is a hard one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoofnHoof Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 It doesn't have to be heart v head you can look at the odds and work out if you like those odds or not, if the vets are optimistic I would also take that into account. There is plenty of info out there about shunt surgeries and their success rates complications etc when I get home ill try and find some. I think 70% is not bad odds but I was willing to go with 50/50 so that probably doesn't mean much :) Dancinbcs I'd have to disagree with you about attachment thing it's very individual I get very attached very early in the piece, my boy was a little older than the OPs but still well under a year so I don't think it's accurate to say you can't be that attached in all cases. I'm pretty sure Sonny would disagree with you about nature not intending all to survive, lucky we have good vets ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jednkirrasmummy Posted October 27, 2012 Author Share Posted October 27, 2012 I have to disagree also, I know the attachment to a dog that I've had for 10+ years, and I am still very attached to Jed. Just because I haven't had him for as long, My partner and I have become very attached to him. We also have his sister from same litter at home who we want to have her brother back. Anyway, this isn't about me, it's about him and all I'm saying is if he has a fighting chance I want to give it to him, but if he doesn't then I don't want to put him through any more pain and suffering. Yes we are going broke trying to save him and it is heart breaking to watch it has been a roller coaster so far and isn't getting any clearer as to what we should do, vet has said at the moment he is doing well and not having any more seizures, so how do I just call them and say put him to sleep? Much easier said than done I think. I have tried to contact the breeder just now and hoping I get a return call soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumabaar Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 I have to disagree also, I know the attachment to a dog that I've had for 10+ years, and I am still very attached to Jed. Just because I haven't had him for as long, My partner and I have become very attached to him. We also have his sister from same litter at home who we want to have her brother back. Anyway, this isn't about me, it's about him and all I'm saying is if he has a fighting chance I want to give it to him, but if he doesn't then I don't want to put him through any more pain and suffering. Yes we are going broke trying to save him and it is heart breaking to watch it has been a roller coaster so far and isn't getting any clearer as to what we should do, vet has said at the moment he is doing well and not having any more seizures, so how do I just call them and say put him to sleep? Much easier said than done I think. I have tried to contact the breeder just now and hoping I get a return call soon. Yes its about him but its about you too- make sure that you are looking after yourself while all this happens (I know when my dogs get sick I tend to forget about myself). So long as you know that in this case there is no wrong or easy decision and do what you feel comfortable with as his current owner and carer. And I really hope your breeder is supportive of whatever decision you make. Also know that you will have support on here during the roller coaster- having people that understand the human animal bond will be a big help in the coming weeks. Best wishes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoofnHoof Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 Totally agree Jumabaar :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 Thinking of you and the little fella .... and really hoping the breeder will give you support . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jednkirrasmummy Posted October 27, 2012 Author Share Posted October 27, 2012 Thanks guys.. Wish I knew what the right thing to do was Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now