Inka3095 Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Hey DOL So, so sorry if this has been discussed before, but I'm currently in a deep and ongoing discussion with a vet friend of mine who is very interested in why I am feeding my dog BARF patties and bones as well as a premium kibble instead of 100% kibble. She says all the Australian super premium foods have scientific evidence to increase health and longevity in dogs and has no idea why I would want to play with/deny that science by feeding BARF/raw food I personally do it because my pup loves the BARF patties and I feel it allows her to experience different textures and temperatures and flavours of food to try and prevent her becoming fussy or fixed on one type of food. I also have heard such positive feedback from people who feed their dogs BARF. I haven't, however, read any actual studies in peer reviewed journals doing a head-to-head study with a super premium food vs BARF and don't know if one exists?? Do any more learned, well read people know where I could find actual evidence as to the benefits of BARF to help me stop saying things like 'but lots the people on DOL like it....' Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mashlee08 Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) It depends what you'd define as super premium kibble also, I wouldn't touch Hills or royal canin with a 10ft barge pole but that's just me. I feed TOTW high prairie which has good ingredients as opposed to by products and corn and as has meat meals as the main ingredients. With the Barf is pretty much the same theory for me with a few differences, its a more natural source of protein and less processed. Less carbs. Less ingredients that you don't need and more easily digested. It's a balanced raw diet, which is easy and everyone loves easy. And to me raw is the way to go for dogs, they need protein they thrive on it, so why not give them actual meat rather then kibble. I have some papers on raw feeding on my puter, just have to find them sorry! Edit: I posted this a while a go, not directly related to the subject, but it is pretty informative. And very eye opening. It's long though. http://leda.law.harvard.edu/leda/data/784/Patrick06.html Edited October 25, 2012 by Mashlee08 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inka3095 Posted October 25, 2012 Author Share Posted October 25, 2012 Thanks :) Yes, my friend is a big fan of Royal Canin (says it's one of the best you can get, end of story) and is shocked that now 2 pet shops have asked me why I would want to buy Royal Canin when there are much better foods on the market. Each time I say anything though she asks me for proof as to why corn isn't good, and grains are bad and WHY, "scientifically" I would wish to feed anything other than something like Royal Canin or IAMS or Advance or whatever else you would want to call 'premium' in Australia. (I'm currently feeding TotW Salmon mixed with Big Dog BARF patties btw) I am happy to be proven incorrect or correct, I don't really care, I just want to feed the healthiest food for my dog to have a long healthy and happy life. I know that the 'best food is the one your dog does best on' and agree completely, but I'm just looking for proof in writing with actual studies to continue a sensible conversation with my friend who is just as passionate about this as I am but believes she has a lot more knowledge (which is fair enough given she's a vet lol). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mashlee08 Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) I think you should ask her what studies there have been that prove corn is good :-P etc etc. it can be looked at both ways I think. Also, cost is a huge thing! I refuse to pay 130 for a bag of something where CORN and grains are the main ingredients. I can buy something with meat as the main source for half the price. Not to mention the debate on the DDD animals that companies like purina and proplan use. Prob a lot more companies then that really. Also a dog can't digest corn or rice or grains as well as a human. A humans digestion system as higher amounts of amalayze (sp) which is the enzyme that digests grains etc and a longer digestive tract. dogs have a shorter digestive tract therefor simply do not have the time in their digestive cycle for grains to be nutritionally beneficial as they poop it out to early! Not to mention they have less amounts is the digestive enzyme required to break down the grains in the first place. Ah that was hard on the ol IPad lol. Edit, vets aren't schooled much in nutrition either, the classes are paid go by royal canin or hills and advocate the products without much knowledge about ingredients. Also clinics are paid to sell the food as well. Not all vets are clueless about nutrition, some are great and understand people's choice but then there are some that just astound me. Edited October 25, 2012 by Mashlee08 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzy82 Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 I did some research before I switched to raw, and found that there are studies that find no health benefits with feeding raw vs feeding a high quality dry food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Also clinics are paid to sell the food as well. Really??????? No vet clinic I have ever worked in was paid for selling any food. I would love to know who does actually get paid for selling dog food Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inevitablue Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 It's hard to find a decent study. Remember all the big dry food brands are owned by Colgate-Palmolive, Procter & Gamble, Johnson & Johnson, Mars etc. Massive multinationals with near limitless funds. The margins in these foods are huge, the marketing departments have near endless dollars and, well studies can always be skewed. Compare to almost all of the commercial raw producers that were founded by single vets, the margins are much lower (actually using meat is more expensive than corn or meat meal) and the marketing very simple. There would be very little in the kitty for studies. Common sense as to the dogs evolution is their 'proof'. The fact that the companies whose main goal is profit give the only nutrition lectures to vet students doesn't sit well with me. Studies can be skewed to show a positive outcome, and shouldn't a scientist with no agenda be teaching our future vets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisovar Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Also clinics are paid to sell the food as well. Really??????? No vet clinic I have ever worked in was paid for selling any food. I would love to know who does actually get paid for selling dog food Me tooo....this one always cracks us up at work... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisovar Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 The proof on how well MY dogs do on a RAW diet as compared to a kibble diet is right in front of me....and it shows on my Vet bill as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inevitablue Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 I think Guide Dogs QLD did a study, when they swapped to a raw diet. Don't think it was a published study but their vet bills reduced dramatically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minimax Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 The proof on how well MY dogs do on a RAW diet as compared to a kibble diet is right in front of me....and it shows on my Vet bill as well. + 1 I get comments on the condition of my pugs, especially on their muscle tone and their coats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 The proof on how well MY dogs do on a RAW diet as compared to a kibble diet is right in front of me....and it shows on my Vet bill as well. + 1 I get comments on the condition of my pugs, especially on their muscle tone and their coats. On the same token people always commented on Alvin's coat etc when he was fed a commercial diet, same with my Stafford. I was always asked what I fed due to their muscle tone and glossy coats. I switched to raw a month or so ago and see no external differences as they already looked awesome before. Im not bagging raw as I do believe it is better for dogs and they prefer it, just that I see dogs in peak condition fed commercial food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mashlee08 Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 My old clinic got a monthly payment for having the food and advertising it out in reception. And I know more then one other then does the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Labradork Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) Personally, I'm over the kibble vs raw debate. Dogs are individuals - I've owned a dog who couldn't tolerate raw and a dog who couldn't tolerate kibble. Also, I was a vegetarian for many years and, even though I eat chicken and fish now, I hate the sight of- having to handle- raw meat Edited October 26, 2012 by Labradork Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra777 Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) I'd second asking your vet friend for links to their studies "proving" this. I have recently read an article which praises corn and other cereals as the ideal food for dogs because they have 'evolved to eat human scraps'. I agree that the dog/human link may well have started because dogs are carnivorous scavengers and know a good thing when they see it so dogs DO eat human scraps which can include any manner of cereal food matter - but one look at a dog's teeth clearly shows they are carnivores - they have no grinding molars so the "evolved" bit is a bit too much IMO. All dogs are individual and while I prefer raw feeding mine have done perfectly well these last 4 years on a mixture of cheaper dry food and meat/bones. Edited October 25, 2012 by Sandra777 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Panzer Attack! Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 My old clinic got a monthly payment for having the food and advertising it out in reception. And I know more then one other then does the same. Who paid you? Our clinic would love a kick back, my boss has never been paid for stocking Hills, Advance, RC OR Euk and our practice has been open for over 20 years, I think we are being ripped off! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mashlee08 Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 My old clinic got a monthly payment for having the food and advertising it out in reception. And I know more then one other then does the same. Who paid you? Our clinic would love a kick back, my boss has never been paid for stocking Hills, Advance, RC OR Euk and our practice has been open for over 20 years, I think we are being ripped off! I'm just going by my experience here, and if this is not what happens in australia then my mistake, i am not from here. people can call it shelf maintenance or benefits, whatever you like and you know what, maybe I'm wrong, I am just a vet nurse, not a practice owner, but like I said, just going by personal experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mashlee08 Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 The article I posted actually has some explanation to it also. Around the 260 reference mark. I know the study is American but the facts are still there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 BARF patties are just another commercial dog food though, made with pet-quality ingredients. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minimax Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) BARF patties are just another commercial dog food though, made with pet-quality ingredients. Not nearly as many chemicals and crap as dry food though, but I make my own raw mix with human grade food so I know what's in it. I wouldn't ever feed something like VAN that comes in vaccume sealed packs in the fridge, I got a sample pack of that from the vet once and it stunk like chemicals and preservetives. The pre-made ones I used to use, Canine Country, were frozen, not fridged, and with human grade ingredients. Edited October 25, 2012 by minimax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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