Anxiety And Physical/mental Exercise

[kayla1]

I was hoping someone was going to bring this discussion into another thread, so here it is copied from a thread in general...

I don't have 4 hours to dedicate to one dog everyday! That's why we have frozen Kongs and rec bones. The simple fact is he's not a happy dog if he has not had enough to do lately. It presents as generalised anxiety and reactivity. I'm not saying he's perfect, but he is who he is. I can get him to settle if he's having trouble, but it doesn't change his ability to settle. What changes it is how much mental and physical exercise he gets.

He must be a mental little dude then :laugh: I've found that dogs are very adaptable and mine don't have an increase in anxiety or reactivity if they don't get as much exercise for a little while. Or maybe you specifically look for little changes in behaviour that could indicate things.

I also have a dog that will become increasingly anxious if not given sufficient physical and mental stimulation. It becomes very noticeable when I have long days at work and less time for training, and I can see his anxiety level increasing. He is extremely intelligent and has a tendency to be quite highly strung.

A very knowledgeable behaviourist said to me "whatever mental stimulation he is getting now, he needs more of it". And he was right, when I increase the physical and mental stimulation, his anxiety and reactivity seem to reduce.

Anyway, perhaps others can provide more info on why this might be the case in some dogs and not others.

[Cosmolo]

I think this is a very interesting topic- particularly because the difference/ variation seems so significant between dogs. I think there are a couple of points to consider-

- Firstly, i just want to mention that i think SOME dogs are simply not taught an off switch. I am sure that's not the case with the more experienced owners here but we do need to be careful that large amounts of exercise are not simply a substitute for teaching a dog to stop and settle.

- For those dogs who are less anxious and less reactive with more exercise i believe that this may have something to do with the chemicals released upon exercise. EITHER these particular dogs require MORE of that chemical in order to be less anxious/ reactive OR the brain does not secrete ENOUGH of these chemicals for the dog to be satisfied with a normal amount of exercise. I think there has to be a physiological explanation like this.

- I think a very important factor is HOW the dog behaves on their walks. If the dog is reactive on their walk, i think sometimes less is more when it comes to exercise. The more frequent the reactivity, the more likely that the dog can be in a constant state of arousal and has insufficient time to get back to a chemical 'base level' if that makes sense.

Look forward to everyone else's thoughts

[Aidan3]

Anyway, perhaps others can provide more info on why this might be the case in some dogs and not others.

The short answer would be gene x environment interactions. Some individuals just don't need as much as others, and some have learned that the best way to get attention/stimulation is to demand it. Some owners have lots of easy going dogs, then one comes along that makes them question their sanity :laugh:

[Cosmolo]

Do you think it's always that simple Aidan? I have seen cases where extra exercise makes things worse and others where it makes it better in dogs of similar temperament.

[Aidan3]

Do you think it's always that simple Aidan? I have seen cases where extra exercise makes things worse and others where it makes it better in dogs of similar temperament.

The formula 'gene x environment' is simple, but it gives rise to complex processes that we're really only beginning to understand. One thing is for sure, we need to be careful not to make too many assumptions or expectations about dogs.

[Cosmolo]

That makes sense. The more i train dogs the more i realise how much we don't know yet.

[Weasels]

I worry a bit though that being over-tired reduces Weez's ability to cope with unexpected stimuli

I haven't been able to tease out what helps/doesn't help him fully because there are too many variables (including ongoing training and counter-conditioning) but the only sure-fire trigger I know is if he's reacted once on a walk, he will be looking for things to react to again

[aussielover]

I think it is entirely possible that some dogs have an ADHD type disorder.

I also think some dogs are very clever and essentially train their owners to provide activities for them.

My dog is spoilt and gets heaps of exercise and training but I don't think she actually "needs" it.

Edited October 25, 2012 by aussielover

[kayla1]

I think this is a very interesting topic- particularly because the difference/ variation seems so significant between dogs. I think there are a couple of points to consider-

- Firstly, i just want to mention that i think SOME dogs are simply not taught an off switch. I am sure that's not the case with the more experienced owners here but we do need to be careful that large amounts of exercise are not simply a substitute for teaching a dog to stop and settle.

- For those dogs who are less anxious and less reactive with more exercise i believe that this may have something to do with the chemicals released upon exercise. EITHER these particular dogs require MORE of that chemical in order to be less anxious/ reactive OR the brain does not secrete ENOUGH of these chemicals for the dog to be satisfied with a normal amount of exercise. I think there has to be a physiological explanation like this.

- I think a very important factor is HOW the dog behaves on their walks. If the dog is reactive on their walk, i think sometimes less is more when it comes to exercise. The more frequent the reactivity, the more likely that the dog can be in a constant state of arousal and has insufficient time to get back to a chemical 'base level' if that makes sense.

Look forward to everyone else's thoughts

That's really interesting.

It's interesting to see the difference in how the dogs respond. If my dogs don't get as much exercise or mental stimulation, Annie will just become bored and destroy something. Whereas Maxie doesn't destroy things, he just becomes very anxious - can't settle, jumpy, on edge, and he trembles. The mental stimulation seems to help bring him down from this anxious state. So more like the second example in your post.

[noisymina]

When we first got Kaisie at 4 years old, I wondered what the heck I had taken on. She was clearly a nut case and incredibly highly strung. It didn't help that I was told that the Dobes they were breeding "these days" were very highly strung.

She'd run full speed into trees, compost bins and generally ran beserk, reacted to mops, hoses, vacuums etc by running off as far as she could get.

Two years later, you would not have been able to tell she was the same dog. 100% environment! In that case.

[Guest Panzer Attack!]

I think it is entirely possible that some dogs have an ADHD type disorder.

Slightly OT but I was going to start a thread in this vein - Corvus and I were talking about my dog recently and how there is a definite possibility that dogs also have things like personality disorders etc (my dog displays almost Aspergers type behaviour). I wish more people were doing more research in this area!

[ChristineX]

With Duke, I found that walking him everyday meant he never got a chance to relax and clear the adrenaline from his system - he did much better with a walk every second or third day. And lots more training games at home. He's now 6, and I'm switching to grooming/petting/massage instead of a lot of the training sessions, but I still don't take him out every day. He goes too maniac if I do.

Every dog is different, with their issues coming from different causes. The 'fun' for us is in trying to sort out which cause/s and which approach works best for the dog in front of us.

[wuffles]

Interestingly, I think my anxiety-prone girl is better the more you allow/expect her to "chill" and "relax". Routine is essentially the most important thing to her. Giving her more exercise or training than she is used to doesn't make her more chilled. It almost fires her up.

[Dame Aussie]

Interestingly, I think my anxiety-prone girl is better the more you allow/expect her to "chill" and "relax". Routine is essentially the most important thing to her. Giving her more exercise or training than she is used to doesn't make her more chilled. It almost fires her up.

Yes, that's the same with my girl, she is very hughly strung and very sensitive to us and how we feel, with Lili routine is everything and she can get too excitable with too much stimulation. . Our other dog however is very lazy but he is the one who gets antsy if he hasn't had enough exercise?!

[Nekhbet]

Frankly I think we spend too much time anthropomorphising - hence we think our dogs have things like ADHD, aspergers etc which is not true. We also feed our dogs behaviors to fulfill our ideals, don't say 'no' because everyone does it to a degree. Some people are just blatantly worst then others.

We are shrinking the natural world. Our dogs are living in a more sterile, artificial environment and it's only getting worst. Look at the products available now - artificial treats, artificial chew toys, artificial freaking grass! No wonder our dogs are displaying more and more manic behaviors, they can't be 'dogs' or we think there's something wrong with them. They chew our stuff, they piss on our carpet, they dig a hole in our manicured gardens, they bark when they hear another dog from within their confined space of a yard with high fences they can't see through and suddenly we're up in arms about their behavior.

Routine is also the maker of anxiety - entrench a dog in a massive routine and they will stress when you have to break it. Mix life up, the simple pleasures are often the ones that make a dog the happiest. Chewing a bone, making a mess, zooming about barking, it's all part of the doggy way to let out their innate behaviors.

We stress and obsess about our dogs happiness and needs, somehow so many people forget to actually do things that genuinely fulfill canine needs.

I think this is a very interesting topic- particularly because the difference/ variation seems so significant between dogs. I think there are a couple of points to consider-

- Firstly, i just want to mention that i think SOME dogs are simply not taught an off switch. I am sure that's not the case with the more experienced owners here but we do need to be careful that large amounts of exercise are not simply a substitute for teaching a dog to stop and settle.

- For those dogs who are less anxious and less reactive with more exercise i believe that this may have something to do with the chemicals released upon exercise. EITHER these particular dogs require MORE of that chemical in order to be less anxious/ reactive OR the brain does not secrete ENOUGH of these chemicals for the dog to be satisfied with a normal amount of exercise. I think there has to be a physiological explanation like this.

- I think a very important factor is HOW the dog behaves on their walks. If the dog is reactive on their walk, i think sometimes less is more when it comes to exercise. The more frequent the reactivity, the more likely that the dog can be in a constant state of arousal and has insufficient time to get back to a chemical 'base level' if that makes sense.

Look forward to everyone else's thoughts

I agree with you Cosmolo MANY dogs are not taught an off switch. I think it also comes back to us where we feel the need for constant entertainment and stimuli on a day to day basis. Dogs need quiet time, they need to learn to just go sit down, shut up and relax. I have working Malinois, my GOD if I had to entertain them all the time they would never sleep. From the minute they're mine they learn quiet time. Not go chew a bone or play with a toy, just lay down and relax. If I have days at home they will lounge about me and sleep or just relax for majority of the day. It doesnt mean come dinner time they're vibrating because they haven't been entertained at all, in fact they just keep sleeping. Any dog can do it.

As for less anxiety with exercise, I think you're right in part but at the same time you're redirecting that internal anxiety that manifests as an unwanted behavior into a structured exercise that the dog has to actually think about. Instead of working on auto pilot, ding ding the light globe has to come on and we have to think about what we do. Once that brain kicks in you see a lot of the reacting stop. A lot of exercise also helps wear the dog out in general and not sit, bottling up all that unused energy into an explosive habit.

We also come back to just plain old training. A hundred bad walks does nothing but reinforce unwanted behavior, the owner gets frustrated and the basic relationship that is used to work with the dog breaks down. The more walks, the worst it gets. The dog is also self rewarding because nothing is preventing it acting poorly. I tell clients with reactive dogs if you DONT feel well or are frustrated/tired/angry spend quality time with the dog AT HOME and dont just force a walk until it all falls apart. The dog learns nothing, you dont get a consistent improvement instead a constant up down because you're forcing it. I would rather 2-3 great walks a week then 7 shite ones, the rest of the time bonding and relationship building at home through other exercises. Dog still sleeps and doesnt tear the place apart.

[Wobbly]

Mine's not anxious at all, quite the reverse in fact, a bit more caution would be a good thing, so my experience may not be so relevant.

But, it's a law of my universe that the more exercise my dog gets the calmer, better behaved and happier she is. Without a serious run everyday she's like a small hairy tornado of mischief and destruction.

[Kavik]

It was a very interesting experience working at a dog daycare. A VERY busy environment. Some of the dogs were on the go the whole time (12 hrs) unless physically shut away eg in crates or separated from the other dogs. I think the environment and having them on the go the whole time increased their anxiety, the exercise certainly did not make them calmer. Also I think after a certain point they were more distracted and less able to be focused.

[Wobbly]

Actually just an addendum to my earlier post - I'm really talking about when she was younger - without the exercise she was WILD. Now she's older and generally calmer, so she doesn't go wild without a day's exercise anymore, but those past experiences are just so indelibly burnt in my brain I tend to assume they're present reality too, but they aren't.

But if she hasn't had a walk, it still seems she's a bit physically uncomfortable by the end of the day. If she's not walked that day, then after dinner (always after dinner - why is that?) she'll be at me, dropping toys in my lap and racing round the house with them in her mouth trying to convince me we NEED to play and we need to play NOW. Half an hour of fetch or tuggy will satisfy her, then she'll go sleep again.

Edited October 26, 2012 by Wobbly

[wuffles]

Actually just an addendum to my earlier post - I'm really talking about when she was younger - without the exercise she was WILD. Now she's older and generally calmer, so she doesn't go wild without a day's exercise anymore, but those past experiences are just so indelibly burnt in my brain I tend to assume they're present reality too, but they aren't.

But if she hasn't had a walk, it still seems she's a bit physically uncomfortable by the end of the day. If she's not walked that day, then after dinner (always after dinner - why is that?) she'll be at me, dropping toys in my lap and racing round the house with them in her mouth trying to convince me we NEED to play and we need to play NOW. Half an hour of fetch or tuggy will satisfy her, then she'll go sleep again.

Do you think that's because that's what she's used to, though, rather than just being restless? My girl could certainly go and go and go, but she knows that evenings are for resting and hanging out, so she rarely tries anything. Not saying that's definitely the case, but it's interesting :)

[Weasels]

We are shrinking the natural world. Our dogs are living in a more sterile, artificial environment and it's only getting worst. Look at the products available now - artificial treats, artificial chew toys, artificial freaking grass! No wonder our dogs are displaying more and more manic behaviors, they can't be 'dogs' or we think there's something wrong with them. They chew our stuff, they piss on our carpet, they dig a hole in our manicured gardens, they bark when they hear another dog from within their confined space of a yard with high fences they can't see through and suddenly we're up in arms about their behavior.

My herding trainer almost doesn't believe me that Weez has problems with reactivity and timidity/nervousness, because as soon as he gets out in those paddocks and around the stock he is the picture of dogginess :) Even better now he is reliable enough around the stock that he can be let off-lead when it's not his turn to train - he can sniff, dig, roll (oh god so much rolling) etc. and it's just awesome to see him so settled and happy :) It's once we get him back to the suburbs with all the weird shiny flooring and garbage trucks and kids on inexplicable noisy rolling devices that he gets the wiggins.

Hopefully only a few more months before we're living on acreage and he'll get to 'be a kelpie' every day

she's like a small hairy tornado of mischief and destruction.

Edited October 26, 2012 by Weasels