Why Not Judge On Function?

[Alyosha]

Pav.

[Rebanne]

I doubt very much that the racing fraternity has preserved form, function or genetic health, what they do however is produce so many animals, that the odds are some of them can run around in a circle very fast, how quickly they break down or live after retiring is of little consideration.

Even if we assumed those conditions you listed were common (which for the numbers being bred, they're actually not) - compare SLO with HD. SLO can't be tested for without removing the last bone of the toe and there is no evidence to suggest it is an inheritable disease. HD on the other hand.. easy to check for (doesn't require any amuptation, anyway) and usually genetic and easy to control if you're breeding from dogs with low scores.

Oh if only it was that easy with HD.

[WreckitWhippet]

I doubt very much that the racing fraternity has preserved form, function or genetic health, what they do however is produce so many animals, that the odds are some of them can run around in a circle very fast, how quickly they break down or live after retiring is of little consideration.

Even if we assumed those conditions you listed were common (which for the numbers being bred, they're actually not) - compare SLO with HD. SLO can't be tested for without removing the last bone of the toe and there is no evidence to suggest it is an inheritable disease. HD on the other hand.. easy to check for (doesn't require any amuptation, anyway) and usually genetic and easy to control if you're breeding from dogs with low scores.

Oh if only it was that easy with HD.

if only it were, we'd have done it by now across the board with every breed known to man.

[Mojopoodle]

Christina, as a breeder & exhibitor of Toy Poodles I totally agree, I have been asked so often why I cut off my show dogs coat once they achieve Aust Champion status, and it is purely for the happiness of the dog. They are so much happier in pet trim and I think they look so much better that way. I think mine would all pass the 'lap dog' test I doubt I will ever exhibit to Grand or Supreme, even if the dog has the required quality as I think the long coat & show trims are just far too uncomfortable for the dog.

So what shape person should sit on the chair to test lapdogs :laugh:

Does this chihuahua, toy poodle or pomeranian look comfortable on this lap :)

It wouldn't work for some breeds.

I do see your point that as long as dogs fit the breed standard & behave at the shows function & certainly health in the lines have no place but it's difficult to find another way to judge that would suit all.

Was only saying to someone yesterday when they were doing my young boy in show clip that I wished poodles could be shown in a pet clip. I hate the show style & its not great for the dog either.

[rebelsquest]

A lot of racing breeders I know are very careful with their breeding as a litter of puppies that aren't fit for racing can end up costing them literally thousands of dollars (money is a great motivator). Greyhound neuropathy is a good example of that- if such a disease appeared within dogs that are potentially worth so much money (which depends upon their form and ability to function), it would be removed quickly and very efficiently. Compare this to the show greyhound population where they had a rate of at least one in four dogs carrying the defective gene for neuropathy- which is disturbingly high for a disease of that sort.

Where you have dogs being bred for function (especially function that is potentially incredibly valuable), it pays to get it right and so many of them do.

Can you please provide your source for your quoted figures of 1 in 4 show greys carry neuropathy?

[Perry's Mum]

This is why the Koolie Club is not seeking to have them become pedigree dogs - we want to maintain their working ability first and foremost - what they look like really is not important and can vary around the country depending on the terrain, climate, and what they are working.

[Faolmor]

Here is a classic example of one person idea of function

Looks like a French dog to me...and their breed club is run by people who do actually work their dogs, and who cull those who don't work. While this is NOT my idea of what an Irish Setter should look like (not even a working one!!!), I would have to argue that this dog probably functions extremely well in the field.

ETA: Though, personally, if this type of dog dictated the future direction and conformation of the breed, I'd die crying... There are far better-made working Irish out there!!

Edited October 22, 2012 by Faolmor

[Dogsfevr]

Here is a classic example of one person idea of function

Looks like a French dog to me...and their breed club is run by people who do actually work their dogs, and who cull those who don't work. While this is NOT my idea of what an Irish Setter should look like (not even a working one!!!), I would have to argue that this dog probably functions extremely well in the field.

ETA: Though, personally, if this type of dog dictated the future direction and conformation of the breed, I'd die crying... There are far better-made working Irish out there!!

Yep they are.

Im trying to find the Gordon photo's that are worse .

[Sandra777]

Not sure if anyone's made this comment earlier or not...

Why not judge on function and not form - well there ARE competitions where dogs are judged on function and not form - sled dogs, sheep dogs, sight hounds (not 'for real' though in Australia), gundogs, earth terriers, weight pulling, Newfoundland clubs run water work days, in the USA Portuguese Water Dogs do water trials which are probably better supported than many conformation shows, schutzhund, french ring sport - I've no doubt missed lots.

Why "pick" on conformation showing - there's endless opportunities for people to test the functionality of their dogs if they choose to, and plenty of scope for puppy buyers to buy from ANKC registered breeders who DO. So how is to "blame" here - the breeders who DO or the buyers who just buy from where-ever and don't ask if the dogs ever "do" anything?

The reason I don't partake in any functional trials is that I don't want to spend a long time in jail for dog fighting.

My dogs lure race & weight pull and some are doing pretty good in obedience & agility too.

Edited October 22, 2012 by Sandra777

[mixeduppup]

This is why the Koolie Club is not seeking to have them become pedigree dogs - we want to maintain their working ability first and foremost - what they look like really is not important and can vary around the country depending on the terrain, climate, and what they are working.

I love seeing the different styles of Koolies. I think this is why the WKC was created, so that the working dogs could be just that and look like anything, floppy ears, too small, too tall etc and the show dogs stayed true to type.

[Aetherglow]

A breed-suitable herding test for Lappies is impossible, due to the distinct lack of reindeer in Australia. Sheep just aren't quite the same!

Incidentally, my girl has her HT, and I'm very pleased that she shows lots of instinct and will be looking at doing PT next year. But given how different the Lappie herding style is to that of Border Collies and Kelpies I can't see them being a common choice for herding trials, let alone as a working dog in Australian conditions. I wonder whether you would actually change the way the herding instinct is manifested in Lappies if it became the norm to only breed dogs that performed at high level at Australian-style herding trials, against breeds with a different technique. It would make the Lappie herding test quieter :), but would it be an improvement of the breed?

Just as well Lappies are described as companions as well as herders, they do that perfectly!

[mixeduppup]

You need to get yourself some reindeer and start a new trend!

[Perry's Mum]

This is why the Koolie Club is not seeking to have them become pedigree dogs - we want to maintain their working ability first and foremost - what they look like really is not important and can vary around the country depending on the terrain, climate, and what they are working.

I love seeing the different styles of Koolies. I think this is why the WKC was created, so that the working dogs could be just that and look like anything, floppy ears, too small, too tall etc and the show dogs stayed true to type.

The Australian Koolie Club does not support show dogs and is dedicated to keeping Koolies bred for work. I think the Working Koolie Council has relatively few members compared to the Australian Koolie Club.

[Kavik]

This is why the Koolie Club is not seeking to have them become pedigree dogs - we want to maintain their working ability first and foremost - what they look like really is not important and can vary around the country depending on the terrain, climate, and what they are working.

I love seeing the different styles of Koolies. I think this is why the WKC was created, so that the working dogs could be just that and look like anything, floppy ears, too small, too tall etc and the show dogs stayed true to type.

The Australian Koolie Club does not support show dogs and is dedicated to keeping Koolies bred for work. I think the Working Koolie Council has relatively few members compared to the Australian Koolie Club.

WKC stands for Working Kelpie Council - and has quite a few members :)

[Perry's Mum]

Oh there is a working koolie council too which does not have many at all.