Just Sad.

[mr.mister]

I must say I'm surprised the dog wasn't desexed by the breeder before they rehomed him the second time round.

When I was younger, we rehomed several adult dogs undesexed as according to my mother, 'let desexing be the new owner's responsibility!" Even as a young child I pleaded mum to desex them but it never happened. All of those dogs went on to be backyard bred several times apiece.

[Simply Grand]

Actually SG, what i am saying ( abeit badly :laugh: ), is that if someone is going to make money and breed from a dog they are just as likely to do it at any age, not just a mature dog.

However ,yes i see more of a reason why a mature dog should be desexed before being rehomed. I suppose it could be because they don't fetch the money pups do so

don't want to pay for the op too.

Cross over posts!

I do see what you're saying juice, and there are breeders who agree with you and desex babies of various species before they go to pet homes.

As you say, there is much less room for debate in adult dogs being rehomed from rescue or a breeder, the arguments against desexing young for developmental reasons just don't apply.

[juice]

i do understand that many breeds shouldn't be done early,its a really hard one, but mature dogs, no reason really

[eyeopener]

Why sell any dog without desexing it? no different to a breeder selling a litter of pups as pets not desexed .

I would prefer all breeders to desex dogs not suitable to be bred from, but thats never going to happen.

Of course breeders always know what's suitable to be bred from at 8 weeks. NOT

Rescue may have decided that breeding another generation of dogs is the greater evil than adverse development caused by juvenile desexing but thank God many breeders have not.

AMEN... They whine n bitch about health but have no idea the damage the lack of diverse bloodlines will lead to & that many breed may become so bottle necked they won't be viable at all. Not everyone needs to desex a dog to keep it from breeding until appropriate health checks n maturity has been reached so they can then make a fully informed decision as to whether the dog should b breed or not.

[Greytmate]

Yes I thought that would be your argument juice. I guess most breeders decide that the definite risks of desexing their puppies as babies outweigh the potential risks of the people they place them risk breeding irresponsibly from them.

It's a bit disingenuous to declare some risks definite and some risks only potential. By definition of the word, all risk is potential and not definite.

This dog should have been desexed before rehoming as he was an adult dog being rehomed as a pet. There are risks associated with the success rate of rehoming adult dogs, and desexing reduces those risks to the dog being rehomed.

[SkySoaringMagpie]

It's a bit disingenuous to declare some risks definite and some risks only potential. By definition of the word, all risk is potential and not definite.

This dog should have been desexed before rehoming as he was an adult dog being rehomed as a pet. There are risks associated with the success rate of rehoming adult dogs, and desexing reduces those risks to the dog being rehomed.

Bingo. The other relevant factor for me was the dog had already bounced once. The second time, god forbid the third time, I think the responsibility increases to reduce risk as much as possible. There is no reason to leave a 15 month old entire if it has already bounced once and is destined for a pet home IMO.

I don't desex my dogs but I do desex every rescue that comes through here.

[Simply Grand]

Yes I thought that would be your argument juice. I guess most breeders decide that the definite risks of desexing their puppies as babies outweigh the potential risks of the people they place them risk breeding irresponsibly from them.

It's a bit disingenuous to declare some risks definite and some risks only potential. By definition of the word, all risk is potential and not definite.

Sorry, what I meant by that was that if you desex as a baby you ARE risking certain consequences, which may ore may not happen.

However your puppy buyer MAY or may not desex the dog when it has matured more but before it has any opportunity to breed, so the breeding risks are potential depending on what happens in the future.

Hope that makes some sense!

[Greytmate]

Yes I thought that would be your argument juice. I guess most breeders decide that the definite risks of desexing their puppies as babies outweigh the potential risks of the people they place them risk breeding irresponsibly from them.

It's a bit disingenuous to declare some risks definite and some risks only potential. By definition of the word, all risk is potential and not definite.

Sorry, what I meant by that was that if you desex as a baby you ARE risking certain consequences, which may ore may not happen.

However your puppy buyer MAY or may not desex the dog when it has matured more but before it has any opportunity to breed, so the breeding risks are potential depending on what happens in the future.

Hope that makes some sense!

Unless you know how high the risks are, you can't really make a comparison.

If an adult dog is being rehomed for the third time, there is a much higher risk (than average) that the dog will be unwanted again in future. These dogs are very attractive to unscrupulous breeders because it is much cheaper to get an adult dog and breed with it straight away than it is to buy and raise a pup. Desexing dogs before rehoming means that you can be sure the dog won't be bought just to be used like this.

This topic is not about desexing as a baby. It is about desexing an adult dog that needs to be rehomed and is unsuitable as a breeding prospect.

[Squidgy]

Why sell any dog without desexing it? no different to a breeder selling a litter of pups as pets not desexed .

I would prefer all breeders to desex dogs not suitable to be bred from, but thats never going to happen.

Of course breeders always know what's suitable to be bred from at 8 weeks. NOT

Rescue may have decided that breeding another generation of dogs is the greater evil than adverse development caused by juvenile desexing but thank God many breeders have not.

AMEN

[Jed]

If, as I understand it, the OP's partner's parent had the dog immediately prior to it going to its present home, why didn't they desex it?

It seems that the dog was returned to the breeder as an older puppy, so, he too should have desexed it.

Juice, my research leads me to believe that early age desexing is not in the dog's best interests. As there is no standard for rescue dogs, people have no idea how tall they should be, or what their coat should be like, etc. With registered purebred dogs, they do, and they are mighty unimpressed when their dog which was desexed as a babe grows too tall with the wrong coat.

There also seems to be a lot of evidence that early desexing leads to a lot of future health problems.

Edited October 19, 2012 by Jed

[Little Gifts]

Why sell any dog without desexing it? no different to a breeder selling a litter of pups as pets not desexed .

I would prefer all breeders to desex dogs not suitable to be bred from, but thats never going to happen.

Of course breeders always know what's suitable to be bred from at 8 weeks. NOT

Rescue may have decided that breeding another generation of dogs is the greater evil than adverse development caused by juvenile desexing but thank God many breeders have not.

AMEN... They whine n bitch about health but have no idea the damage the lack of diverse bloodlines will lead to & that many breed may become so bottle necked they won't be viable at all. Not everyone needs to desex a dog to keep it from breeding until appropriate health checks n maturity has been reached so they can then make a fully informed decision as to whether the dog should b breed or not.

Sorry but I take offence to that. The rescue group I work with and the majority of the rescuers who post on DOL are not whining and bitching about the actions of good breeders. They are distressed at the number of healthy dogs that have to be pts because there is nowhere else for them to go. I will stick my neck out and say I think only a very small percentage of those dogs can be traced back to a breeder or be identified as pure bred so their value to bloodlines is irrelevant. Of course rescue contact the breeder where possible to see if they can take the dog back. I agree that informed people who are in the business of breeding to improve the breed (as opposed to BYBs or PFs) may not find desexing necessary but the reason rescue desexes is because most of the dogs that come through their doors are going to simply be pets and the cycle of unwanted dogs of indeterminate heritage is currently far too high. Your average pet owner is not going to be as savvy about breeding cycles and blood lines and health checks as a good breeder so desexing removes the risk.

As a foster carer of shar pei I also know that supposedly pure bred dogs of this breed are coming into rescue for serious health reasons. I don't think it is fair to the dog to be suffering from breeding flaws that regularly cause them significant eye, ear and skin issues. I can't speak for other breeds but it is heartbreaking to imagine the suffering they go through, with some ending up blind from their lashes rubbing on their cornea for many years or having ears so infected that you can't even see into them, or bald and malnourished as a result of untreated skin conditions. I also fostered a boy that was so heavily wrinkled that the only option to help him see was a forehead lift. He had a wrinkle at the base of his tail as deep as my fingers so you can imagine how easy skin infections would be. He was supposedly pure bred and probably looked magnificent as a puppy. He walked on the fleshy wrinkles on his back legs until he was over a year old and his legs grew longer. He had enough skin for three shar pei. He coped and was a lovely boy but I wouldn't wish that body burden on any dog. He had to be rehomed to very special and commited people. So desexing even of pure bred dogs who should only ever be pets is also sometimes necessary. Health over beauty.

[WExtremeG]

If, as I understand it, the OP's partner's parent had the dog immediately prior to it going to its present home, why didn't they desex it?

Because he believed (I guess like the breeder before him) that the dog was only going to be enjoyed as a pet and not used for breeding at all. He is also unaware of how large scale of backyard breeding actually is- and is in denial that the dog he wanted to keep, is being used in this way.

[eyeopener]

Why sell any dog without desexing it? no different to a breeder selling a litter of pups as pets not desexed .

I would prefer all breeders to desex dogs not suitable to be bred from, but thats never going to happen.

Of course breeders always know what's suitable to be bred from at 8 weeks. NOT

Rescue may have decided that breeding another generation of dogs is the greater evil than adverse development caused by juvenile desexing but thank God many breeders have not.

AMEN... They whine n bitch about health but have no idea the damage the lack of diverse bloodlines will lead to & that many breed may become so bottle necked they won't be viable at all. Not everyone needs to desex a dog to keep it from breeding until appropriate health checks n maturity has been reached so they can then make a fully informed decision as to whether the dog should b breed or not.

Sorry but I take offence to that. The rescue group I work with and the majority of the rescuers who post on DOL are not whining and bitching about the actions of good breeders. They are distressed at the number of healthy dogs that have to be pts because there is nowhere else for them to go. I will stick my neck out and say I think only a very small percentage of those dogs can be traced back to a breeder or be identified as pure bred so their value to bloodlines is irrelevant. Of course rescue contact the breeder where possible to see if they can take the dog back. I agree that informed people who are in the business of breeding to improve the breed (as opposed to BYBs or PFs) may not find desexing necessary but the reason rescue desexes is because most of the dogs that come through their doors are going to simply be pets and the cycle of unwanted dogs of indeterminate heritage is currently far too high. Your average pet owner is not going to be as savvy about breeding cycles and blood lines and health checks as a good breeder so desexing removes the risk.

As a foster carer of shar pei I also know that supposedly pure bred dogs of this breed are coming into rescue for serious health reasons. I don't think it is fair to the dog to be suffering from breeding flaws that regularly cause them significant eye, ear and skin issues. I can't speak for other breeds but it is heartbreaking to imagine the suffering they go through, with some ending up blind from their lashes rubbing on their cornea for many years or having ears so infected that you can't even see into them, or bald and malnourished as a result of untreated skin conditions. I also fostered a boy that was so heavily wrinkled that the only option to help him see was a forehead lift. He had a wrinkle at the base of his tail as deep as my fingers so you can imagine how easy skin infections would be. He was supposedly pure bred and probably looked magnificent as a puppy. He walked on the fleshy wrinkles on his back legs until he was over a year old and his legs grew longer. He had enough skin for three shar pei. He coped and was a lovely boy but I wouldn't wish that body burden on any dog. He had to be rehomed to very special and commited people. So desexing even of pure bred dogs who should only ever be pets is also sometimes necessary. Health over beauty.

Sorry you where offended. I do not mean rescue dogs should not be desexed n think they actually should be its this desexing n placing on limited registry way to young to really know the dogs potential that I think is an issue to gene pools.

[eyeopener]

My belief is if a dog has been rehomed in its first year the likelihood of them being worthy of breeding is slim so I would desex it before it was rehomed again n if I felt that was a waste I would run the dog on myself until I reached a decision I felt was best for the dog n that I was most happy with.

I worked in rescue for yrs n still do just only my own breed now n I have 3 TMs that are desexed rescues here so am not against desexing in anyway shape or form.

[Little Gifts]

Sorry I misread your post Eyeopener. We agree desexing has a purpose, as does the continuance of quality breeding lines.