Crating N Kennelling Dogs

[LizT]

I would never crate a dog for a whole day. Dog runs are a different story IMO, more room for the dog to move.

I have no problem with crates being used, I just dont agree with locking the dog in for long periods of time. I don't assume people who do it it every now and then are bad owners, and I can see where it could be useful if the dog is prone to freaking out and injuring itself, but apart from that I don't get it. It's not something I would ever do.

I find it interesting everyone says all their dogs do is sleep...mine obviously haven't seen the note *rolleyes*. I work full time but on days where I am home, I WISH my dogs would sleep all day :laugh:

THIS!!

Mine follow me from room to room. Mopping and vacuuming is fun with 2 lunging dogs at the equipment (its all a big game to them). The kitchen is seen as where their food comes from and they running around thinking I am making them a feast whenever I'm in it. They bring toys onto my bed and play tug o war when i'm relaxing watching TV.

They are definitely NOT candidates for all day crating. In fact I bought one when I got the puppy and returned it 3 days later after she squealed the house down when being in it. Baby gates at our house.

Can I suggest you don't let your dogs lunge and jump at your mop and vacuum....it's a very annoying and neurotic trait that will become a bane to you eventually.

Doesn't bother me actually, its a game to them, they do it a few times and run off eventually.

So long as it continues not to bother you. :)

[corvus]

It's easy to assume that what we've always done or what we do now is good for our dogs and it's what they want because that's what we want. No one asks the dog. I've been 'asking the dog' in my research and the results so far have disturbed me. I don't have the numbers to draw any conclusions, but honestly, I don't think the way we keep suburban dogs is necessarily very dog friendly. This includes my dogs. They will be noisy in our yard if left there unsupervised for long periods, and they get 90 minutes of exercise and training a day and most of their food in frozen Kongs, bones, and treat dispensing toys. I work from home and they are with me most of the time, but are they happy? Were they happy when I worked in the city and they were cooped up indoors all day every day? I couldn't say. In some Scandinavian countries, it's not really socially acceptable to have dogs if you work full time. It's considered kind of cruel. Wrong? I couldn't say. It makes me very uneasy. Not just because I badly want dogs and full time work, but because so many people here do that it's not on the agenda. What if those northerners are onto something? How can we tell if we won't even consider it? Maybe if we had the data we could petition more businesses to allow dogs to accompany owners to work.

This study sounds very interesting. Have you posted some threads on it that I have missed?

Not since I started it a couple of years ago, I think. I'm not entirely comfortable talking about it here. It's like dog parks. Too many crazies. ;)

Kidding. Mostly.

Look at the language in this thread. Suddenly people are defending themselves against charges of cruelty that were never made. Sometimes I think people are so scared to look the truth right in the eyes and accept it that they build these outrageous straw man arguments to rail against instead. Good work! Must feel good to have established that you're not being cruel to your animals. Even though no one said you in particular were... And even though all anyone on the web can do is take your word for it or not anyway... Why can't we have the courage to think about this really critically and honestly? Welfare is a continuum, not black and white states. Providing imperfect welfare is not a disaster... unless you refuse to admit it and therefore never have any motivation to attempt to improve it. Sometimes we have to make compromises, and that's not the same as being cruel or irresponsible. It's just being realistic.

[kayla1]

It's easy to assume that what we've always done or what we do now is good for our dogs and it's what they want because that's what we want. No one asks the dog. I've been 'asking the dog' in my research and the results so far have disturbed me. I don't have the numbers to draw any conclusions, but honestly, I don't think the way we keep suburban dogs is necessarily very dog friendly. This includes my dogs. They will be noisy in our yard if left there unsupervised for long periods, and they get 90 minutes of exercise and training a day and most of their food in frozen Kongs, bones, and treat dispensing toys. I work from home and they are with me most of the time, but are they happy? Were they happy when I worked in the city and they were cooped up indoors all day every day? I couldn't say. In some Scandinavian countries, it's not really socially acceptable to have dogs if you work full time. It's considered kind of cruel. Wrong? I couldn't say. It makes me very uneasy. Not just because I badly want dogs and full time work, but because so many people here do that it's not on the agenda. What if those northerners are onto something? How can we tell if we won't even consider it? Maybe if we had the data we could petition more businesses to allow dogs to accompany owners to work.

This study sounds very interesting. Have you posted some threads on it that I have missed?

Not since I started it a couple of years ago, I think. I'm not entirely comfortable talking about it here. It's like dog parks. Too many crazies. ;)

Kidding. Mostly.

Look at the language in this thread. Suddenly people are defending themselves against charges of cruelty that were never made. Sometimes I think people are so scared to look the truth right in the eyes and accept it that they build these outrageous straw man arguments to rail against instead. Good work! Must feel good to have established that you're not being cruel to your animals. Even though no one said you in particular were... And even though all anyone on the web can do is take your word for it or not anyway... Why can't we have the courage to think about this really critically and honestly? Welfare is a continuum, not black and white states. Providing imperfect welfare is not a disaster... unless you refuse to admit it and therefore never have any motivation to attempt to improve it. Sometimes we have to make compromises, and that's not the same as being cruel or irresponsible. It's just being realistic.

Interesting, I wasn't aware of the differing attitude in some Scandinavian countries. I don't remember seeing the results of your research posted previously, but if you do decide to discuss your findings here, I'd be very interested to read about it. :)

[Salukifan]

Not since I started it a couple of years ago, I think. I'm not entirely comfortable talking about it here. It's like dog parks. Too many crazies. ;)

Kidding. Mostly.

Look at the language in this thread. Suddenly people are defending themselves against charges of cruelty that were never made. Sometimes I think people are so scared to look the truth right in the eyes and accept it that they build these outrageous straw man arguments to rail against instead. Good work! Must feel good to have established that you're not being cruel to your animals. Even though no one said you in particular were... And even though all anyone on the web can do is take your word for it or not anyway... Why can't we have the courage to think about this really critically and honestly? Welfare is a continuum, not black and white states. Providing imperfect welfare is not a disaster... unless you refuse to admit it and therefore never have any motivation to attempt to improve it. Sometimes we have to make compromises, and that's not the same as being cruel or irresponsible. It's just being realistic.

But what IS the truth? What IS happiness to a dog?

Is a dog that's allowed to roam, to scavenge, to fight going to be happier than a dog that's more confined?

Is "happiness" the same as "freedom" or is security and the absence of hunger better for the dog?

Is a dog that stands at the front door when you open it rather than bolting out it "happy" or simply habituated to its prison?

And frankly Corvus, how do you know people don't think about this critically and honestly? Personally I wonder quite frequently if I do enough for my dog's physical and social welfare.

What I saw at the beginning of this thread was the beginnings of a"if you don't treat your dog this way, you're not as good an owner as I am" line of thinking (hardly a novelty here).

And what I will always be keen to promote is that there is no one "right way" to raise and keep a dog. There are simply too many variables IMO and you can start with breed. A dog selectively bred for decades or centuries for people focus is going to have quite different needs to a dog that's been bred in another direction.

I don't like "one size fits all" approaches to these issues because IMO that's simply not reflective of dogs. They're not all alike.

[eyeopener]

It's interesting the range of responses.

Sway I contain my dogs to my farm there is no way they would be in someone else's paddocks to be shot. Because I have lived on properties all my life & come from a farming background I was brought up knowing a loose dog on someone else's farm will be shot & questions asked later. Like you I have crates, runs, kennels n yards too & do use them when needed. I have several dogs well enough trained n old enough to be trusted to do their own thing but the 2 bitches still come in at night for 1 reason only & that is so they could never even be suspected if someone's livestock where attacked. My problem is with these forms of containment being over used.

I have 1 rescue here who spends the margority of his time in a well appointed n good sized dog run as its the only way to keep him atm but I do know he is not that happy with it. He gets run 5 km a day walked several km n swims every single day plus training 4 times a wk but it still bugs me as I know he wants more. Slowly he is getting more too but it has to be as he can be trusted etc too. So when I hear of dogs spending a whole working day crated then again at night I do think it's too much.

I never meant I was a better owner etc n think maybe you guys read that into my post. Just because I don't agree dose not mean I think I am better than anyone else.

[OSoSwift]

I don't think mine suffer too much :) Although I am sure they would prefer a leather lounge :)

When I get rich enough to snakemesh 5 acres, then they can have free access to that area

Edited October 15, 2012 by OSoSwift

[Inka3095]

Nice post Haredown, I wonder about this stuff allll the time; probably too much lol

[tdierikx]

Dogs are all different, just like we are all different.

Some dogs like the security of being "confined", some prefer to run around larger areas.

Nearly all of them (that I've met) would prefer their humans for company above all else - regardless of the space involved.

If your dog is happy, healthy, and mentally well adjusted, then whatever you are doing with it when you aren't there might just be OK for that dog.

I do like to crate train my dogs, if only to know that if they ever need confinement for a particular reason, then they will be content to be crated. Vets love crate trained dogs when they have to be there for a procedure - less stress for the dog in an otherwise scary time for them.

T.

[LizT]

The fact is we get dogs to make US happy. We hope that what we do for them is to their liking or at least that they tolerate it well if it is for "their own good", as our responsibility we need to make the decisions regarding their welfare. Ultimately it still needs to be something that fits in with our lifestyle or no-one is 'happy'.

I don't think anyone would agree that crating 24/7 is a good thing, unless in the case of a sick or injured animal, and I don't believe any DOLer does crate exclusively. I mean I won't even keep a Parrot unless it is hand trained, may as well have a pretty statue than a caged animal.

So we are all in agreement, crating is fine when not abused and overused. So what exactly was this thread about...critising the animal husbandry practises of people who crate 24/7 when it's unlikely they will EVER read this thread.

[conztruct]

I don't think mine suffer too much :) Although I am sure they would prefer a leather lounge :)

When I get rich enough to snakemesh 5 acres, then they can have free access to that area

What a fantastic setup OSS - I'm definately gonna ask you for some advice when I get some land to do something like that on :)

[Dame Aussie]

I don't think mine suffer too much :) Although I am sure they would prefer a leather lounge :)

When I get rich enough to snakemesh 5 acres, then they can have free access to that area

What a fantastic setup OSS - I'm definately gonna ask you for some advice when I get some land to do something like that on :)

Agree! That's great.

[OSoSwift]

I don't think mine suffer too much :) Although I am sure they would prefer a leather lounge :)

When I get rich enough to snakemesh 5 acres, then they can have free access to that area

What a fantastic setup OSS - I'm definately gonna ask you for some advice when I get some land to do something like that on :)

Agree! That's great.

Thank you, I started off with the dogs runs, I designed them and dad and I built them. They are 12 years old.

The chainmesh was our cat run but over the years we went from lots of cats to one, so decided that we could use that much more wisely, and enter it is now recyled as the dog yard :)

I know it isn't 100% snakeproof as nothing is, but I am happy as I have done everything I can to make it a safe, secure and happy place for them. It was a god send with Rommi having recently had TPLO surgery and now being in season :)

[eyeopener]

I don't think mine suffer too much :) Although I am sure they would prefer a leather lounge :)

When I get rich enough to snakemesh 5 acres, then they can have free access to that area

Love it!! I have similar but not as good but that's what I want to do with all the weld mesh we have. Can you look the inside bit. I would like that but with a divider through the middle that can be left open too. Actually I love to see heaps of pen ideas as we are about to remodel.

[OSoSwift]

Yes you can shut the gates to the runs and there are two which are fully seperate.

I had two Dobe bitches that were never together if I wasn't there and for the last 4 years couldn't be together at all.

Edited October 16, 2012 by OSoSwift

[OSoSwift]

This is looking inside. They are 5 metres long and 2 meters wide per dog run. there is now flashing completely along the sides at the top as well :) So nothing can get out or in unless it is a mouse :)

[eyeopener]

Thanks so much that is perfect. I only have separation issues when new dogs come in or due to bitch being on heat etc but there are some that are only allowed together supervised. I am lucky to be on a property with 2 separate human housing so 2 yards plus I have 2 good size runs. Everyone bar 1 dog is locked up if I go to town etc & that's a perfect set up for me really specially for the days we go into our reginal big town.

[Salukifan]

Everyone bar 1 dog is locked up if I go to town etc & that's a perfect set up for me really specially for the days we go into our reginal big town.

OP:

my dogs come n go in n out of the house n some have full access to the entire farm

So they don't have access to the entire farm then unless you are there?

I don't genuinely see this as much different from what folk who leave their homes every day do.

[LizT]

Thanks so much that is perfect. I only have separation issues when new dogs come in or due to bitch being on heat etc but there are some that are only allowed together supervised. I am lucky to be on a property with 2 separate human housing so 2 yards plus I have 2 good size runs. Everyone bar 1 dog is locked up if I go to town etc & that's a perfect set up for me really specially for the days we go into our reginal big town.

Do you breed Tibetan Mastiffs?

Edited October 16, 2012 by LizT

[BlaznHotAussies]

My dog has free range when I'm home (otherwise he goes to work with OH, on the farm) and every time I go outside he comes out from under the house or under the car

We go for walks and he loves them and at the in-law's place (where most of the work is on the farm) he gets to see all his dog buddies in the dog runs. Over there they run themselves silly twice a day and half of them go out on the ute (crated safely on the back) for the day. Damn good life I reckon! They get to go places and smell different things.

[eyeopener]

Everyone bar 1 dog is locked up if I go to town etc & that's a perfect set up for me really specially for the days we go into our reginal big town.

OP:

my dogs come n go in n out of the house n some have full access to the entire farm

So they don't have access to the entire farm then unless you are there?

I don't genuinely see this as much different from what folk who leave their homes every day do.

Read my first post I said I have some dogs that have full access n most get heaps free time bar 1. I only let my older bitches have total freedom but as I stated of a night they come inside also( they sleep beside their individual family members bed).