Crating N Kennelling Dogs

[mixeduppup]

I have working dogs but they just walk around the yard all day as I keep them separate from the sheep property. I don't know anyone apart from working dog people or Greyhound people that have their dogs caged all day.

My greyhounds aren't caged all day nor are the vast majority of greyhounds I know. However most racing greyhounds are. There are a lot of pet greyhounds around nowadays.

I meant racing greyhounds, I've never met a pet greyhound, apart from a few used for hunting but they were also caged.

EDIT: Actually I have met a couple of pet Greys but they were at the vet so I have no idea how they were kept at hoe but I imagine inside :)

Edited October 14, 2012 by mixeduppup

[mixeduppup]

okay answer this if crates are cruel for your dog to go in during the day bearing in mind I live on acerage

Latte my very active coolie. Gets up in the morning from her crate, goes outside zooms around the yard at a hundred miles an hour. Her dog brother and sister both of whom she adores and they adore her gets put in a roomy pen out the back having also slept in the house. To get Latte into the pen you have to carry her in there as she absolutely refuses to go in there otherwise and when she does she barks.

If you can't find her to put her in the pen, go upstairs,she follows you and open her crate door and she runs into it and settles down immediately. She stays there until about 4 pm when my housemate gets home. Runs around more for hours, comes inside, is generally pretty tired and will more often than not puts herself in her crate and settles down for the night. Otherwise when the others go to bed she goes immeidately into her crate, settles down and not a murmer

So my question is why does Latte prefer her crate rather than a roomy pen during the day?

Habituation perhaps? Or maybe she's a homebody

[moosmum]

I understand te appeal of a "den",my own like their favourite spots in den like places,but I'd be asking whats so wrong with the pen. :laugh:

I was totaly unfamiliar with the use of crates when I 1st joined DOL and it realy jumped out at me the number of people who said they crate while at work and night,and lots of other times as well.I still see it now and again but it kinda sails past and doesn't register like it did,now I'm more familiar with the idea of crating and how usefull it is for some.

Its likely not as prevalent as we 1st think either,but Its there..

Edited October 14, 2012 by moosmum

[Maddy]

I have working dogs but they just walk around the yard all day as I keep them separate from the sheep property. I don't know anyone apart from working dog people or Greyhound people that have their dogs caged all day.

My greyhounds aren't caged all day nor are the vast majority of greyhounds I know. However most racing greyhounds are. There are a lot of pet greyhounds around nowadays.

I meant racing greyhounds, I've never met a pet greyhound, apart from a few used for hunting but they were also caged.

EDIT: Actually I have met a couple of pet Greys but they were at the vet so I have no idea how they were kept at hoe but I imagine inside :)

Thing is, even if a pet greyhound was "caged" all day, I doubt they'd suffer much for it. My eldest hound is "caged" (no crate but there's something blocking the entrance) in the front hallway for about 23 hours a day and he's very happy with that. When we first got him, he had a bed in the loungeroom and wasn't happy there- we tried moving his bed to different places and finally tried the hallway, he was immediately much happier. It's blocked off to give him privacy (and to keep HellPuppy out) and the only times he leaves voluntarily is for toilet or dinner. Out of the house he's quite outgoing and friendly so there's no concern that he's scared of wider spaces, he just appreciates having his own space that others can't intrude on.

He's not really the exception either, from what I've noticed. One of our other hounds has to be moved to the front yard if I'm doing anything in the run as otherwise, she'll go in, hop into the bed there and not move (the run is usually kept closed as that way it's clean and ready if we need it). Had another dog who'd run to his crate and wait for the door to be opened and plenty of others who'd get into crates and then be impossible to get out again (until they felt like moving, which for a greyhound, tends not to be that often).

I think tolerance of crating/penning probably depends a lot not just on the breed but also the individual dog. Some don't cope, others have to be pried out of their crates with treats or promises of walks. To say "it's cruel in every situation because no dog would choose that for themselves.." well.. tell that to all the dogs who do choose it for themselves.

[Teebs]

My stafford would live her live in her crate. I have to bribe her to get out of it at times!

I got home at 7 last night, let her in. She ran around like nuts for 10 mins. Hopped in her crate and I haven't seen her since

She will wake about 6 or when my OH gets home too pee. Then back in till breakfast.

Door is open at all times and she has run of the house.

The only time she doesnt do this is when im having a bad night, she then sleeps under my bed till OH gets home then goes into the crate

[eyeopener]

Ok I use crates, dog runs etc but they are not the place any of my dogs(bar 1) spend much time & I am often seeing people saying their dogs are crated all day while they are at work etc. For me crates are for transporting, containing dogs for short periods of time if needed, sick or injuries animals & for beds(we leave door open though). Not a living arrangement & somewhere to leave any dog for more than a couple of hrs & believe those that need to contain dogs while they work etc should invest in a well constructed dog run.

I also see many dogs who are confined to a kennel n run all week & then take out of the weekend or maybe once midweek & I feel if this is all the time you have for a dog don't have 1, my dogs come n go in n out of the house n some have full access to the entire farm & I know they would be miserable spending all the down time n contained times some other dogs have to do in a day or wk.

Am I way off base here?

You "often" see people say their dogs are crated all day while they are at work? You must move in very different circles to me because I don't know of anyone who does this and quite frankly the overwhelming majority of dogs are kept in backyards by owners who don't own crates.

If you wondered why you copped some flack, then consider for a moment the tone of your opening post. Basically you've said "my dogs go where ever they like when ever they like and this is the correct way to keep a dog".

Well, my dogs don't go where ever they like. Like the vast majority of Australians I'm an urban dweller and my dogs are confined to a house and yard. They are further confined by a lead on most days when I walk them. I also work.

So the conclusion I must draw is that you think my dogs are miserable. And you wonder why folk weren't impressed.

Whippets that roam are Whippets that die... often under a car. I'll keep my dogs "miserable" thanks because it keeps them alive.

No I didn't I said I have a couple who can have full access n I said 1 actually spent a bit of time contained. Then in a further post I stated that have containment areas n I do use them as needed.

I have no issues with contained to a yard if walked its the crating while at work then again at night n those that use dog runs as a dogs place n only ever get out at weekend etc.

[eyeopener]

okay answer this if crates are cruel for your dog to go in during the day bearing in mind I live on acerage

Latte my very active coolie. Gets up in the morning from her crate, goes outside zooms around the yard at a hundred miles an hour. Her dog brother and sister both of whom she adores and they adore her gets put in a roomy pen out the back having also slept in the house. To get Latte into the pen you have to carry her in there as she absolutely refuses to go in there otherwise and when she does she barks.

If you can't find her to put her in the pen, go upstairs,she follows you and open her crate door and she runs into it and settles down immediately. She stays there until about 4 pm when my housemate gets home. Runs around more for hours, comes inside, is generally pretty tired and will more often than not puts herself in her crate and settles down for the night. Otherwise when the others go to bed she goes immeidately into her crate, settles down and not a murmer

So my question is why does Latte prefer her crate rather than a roomy pen during the day?

Because that's where she feel safest doesn't mean she thought it through well though or that when u leave she doesn't think damn I should have picked the run either, lol. But seriously all dogs are individuals but I bet if your dog would not stay in crate all day if she had you home or someone to stimulate her.

[WoofnHoof]

I'm pretty sure I can speak for most dog owners when I say we would love to be able to spend all day with our dogs and not have to go to work :)

[minimax]

My guys are inside the house all day when I'm at work - one in the kitchen and one in the sunroom. I don't know what size your dogs runs are, but these rooms are probably a similar sized, or maybe smaller, than a dog run.

They definetly aren't neglected or miserable for this. They sleep 80% of the day, they play with their toys, eat their bones, and redecorate the walls for me - and most of they are safe. I'm not worrying about them digging their way out of the yard, or people taking them out of the yard, or them terrorising the neighbors by barking at every single noise at the fence.

If keeping my dogs safe in a small area makes me a bad owner, well by all means make me a badge, I'll happily be a bad owner.

[corvus]

It's easy to assume that what we've always done or what we do now is good for our dogs and it's what they want because that's what we want. No one asks the dog. I've been 'asking the dog' in my research and the results so far have disturbed me. I don't have the numbers to draw any conclusions, but honestly, I don't think the way we keep suburban dogs is necessarily very dog friendly. This includes my dogs. They will be noisy in our yard if left there unsupervised for long periods, and they get 90 minutes of exercise and training a day and most of their food in frozen Kongs, bones, and treat dispensing toys. I work from home and they are with me most of the time, but are they happy? Were they happy when I worked in the city and they were cooped up indoors all day every day? I couldn't say. In some Scandinavian countries, it's not really socially acceptable to have dogs if you work full time. It's considered kind of cruel. Wrong? I couldn't say. It makes me very uneasy. Not just because I badly want dogs and full time work, but because so many people here do that it's not on the agenda. What if those northerners are onto something? How can we tell if we won't even consider it? Maybe if we had the data we could petition more businesses to allow dogs to accompany owners to work.

[eyeopener]

I never said it was bad to work or to contain your dogs just not sure all day in a crate while someon goes to work or kennelled all wk n only taken out of a weekend is right thing.

I just try & make my dogs life's as full n varied as I possibly can & only contain in crates or smaller runs when necessary but see no prob with dogs inside houses of a day or backyards n decent sized dog runs as long as they are exercised daily n have enough interaction with their family etc.

I just know my dogs would hate to be crated for several hrs everyday n then again at night constantly, of course bitches whelping, sick or injuries dogs are different again.

[Aphra]

Yep. I'm lucky enough to live on acreage. When I'm home my dogs have the run of the property, but unless I'm with them, they don't leave the house yard by choice, and generally they're either just poking about or sleeping in the grass. If I go out onto the rest of the property they come with me, but they don't run of their own accord.

When I'm not home they're confined to their runs or inside the house. I'm not interested in them getting out and chasing stock, running onto the road or otherwise getting into trouble.

In my experience dogs are most active in the morning and evening, during the day they're mostly asleep or just hanging about. I suppose it's the pattern of predators, most active at dusk and dawn when prey animals are around.

Fact is dogs do not "self exercise". Unless they are neurotically running along a fence barking at something or someone!

Whether a dog is asleep on his bed on in a crate for a period of time is irrelevant provided they receive adequate daily exercise and toileting time.

My dogs spend a great deal of time in a conglomerate lump on either my bed or the couch..it would make very little difference if they were in a crate. They sleep a hell of a lot....but when we go out to play...BOY! do they play! :)

In my opinion crating is a useful tool in dog husbandry and management. Unfortunately, like most things has the potential to be abused if overused.

[eyeopener]

It's easy to assume that what we've always done or what we do now is good for our dogs and it's what they want because that's what we want. No one asks the dog. I've been 'asking the dog' in my research and the results so far have disturbed me. I don't have the numbers to draw any conclusions, but honestly, I don't think the way we keep suburban dogs is necessarily very dog friendly. This includes my dogs. They will be noisy in our yard if left there unsupervised for long periods, and they get 90 minutes of exercise and training a day and most of their food in frozen Kongs, bones, and treat dispensing toys. I work from home and they are with me most of the time, but are they happy? Were they happy when I worked in the city and they were cooped up indoors all day every day? I couldn't say. In some Scandinavian countries, it's not really socially acceptable to have dogs if you work full time. It's considered kind of cruel. Wrong? I couldn't say. It makes me very uneasy. Not just because I badly want dogs and full time work, but because so many people here do that it's not on the agenda. What if those northerners are onto something? How can we tell if we won't even consider it? Maybe if we had the data we could petition more businesses to allow dogs to accompany owners to work.

Well I can say some of my dogs where miserable when we where in town but they already knew farm life n where guardian breeds, yet my poodle thrived in town loved going for a cuppa at an outdoor cafe etc. So I decided, maybe some dogs are better suited to suburban lifestyles than some other breeds. I think as long as we keep their minds stimulated n their bodies well exercised on a daily basis most dogs cab adapt to most lifestyles. What worries me is when people talk of of getting their dogs out n about of a weekend n maybe a quick mid wk walk & keeping them confined to crates while at works etc as I just know that would not be enough daily mental n physical stimulation.

[Salukifan]

I never said it was bad to work or to contain your dogs just not sure all day in a crate while someon goes to work or kennelled all wk n only taken out of a weekend is right thing.

I just try & make my dogs life's as full n varied as I possibly can & only contain in crates or smaller runs when necessary but see no prob with dogs inside houses of a day or backyards n decent sized dog runs as long as they are exercised daily n have enough interaction with their family etc.

I just know my dogs would hate to be crated for several hrs everyday n then again at night constantly, of course bitches whelping, sick or injuries dogs are different again.

So do most caring, responsible dog owners, regardless of where they live.

Most of us contain our dogs. All we are now talking about is the size of the containment. Have you seen the U-tube clip of the greyhound on the couch. It doesn't move.. all day!!

And as for what makes a dog "happy"?? I certainly don't agree with the complete social isolation that many urban dogs are subjected to (kept in backyard, not allowed inside, not walked). Frankly I'm surprised more of such dogs aren't stark raving mad.

Edited October 14, 2012 by Haredown Whippets

[WreckitWhippet]

It's easy to assume that what we've always done or what we do now is good for our dogs and it's what they want because that's what we want. No one asks the dog. I've been 'asking the dog' in my research and the results so far have disturbed me. I don't have the numbers to draw any conclusions, but honestly, I don't think the way we keep suburban dogs is necessarily very dog friendly. This includes my dogs. They will be noisy in our yard if left there unsupervised for long periods, and they get 90 minutes of exercise and training a day and most of their food in frozen Kongs, bones, and treat dispensing toys. I work from home and they are with me most of the time, but are they happy? Were they happy when I worked in the city and they were cooped up indoors all day every day? I couldn't say. In some Scandinavian countries, it's not really socially acceptable to have dogs if you work full time. It's considered kind of cruel. Wrong? I couldn't say. It makes me very uneasy. Not just because I badly want dogs and full time work, but because so many people here do that it's not on the agenda. What if those northerners are onto something? How can we tell if we won't even consider it? Maybe if we had the data we could petition more businesses to allow dogs to accompany owners to work.

or maybe if we had the "data" we'd be another step closer to no dog ownership, because someone has decided it's best we not owns dogs at all, heaven forbid some dogs are unhappy.

I'm sure work would be happy if I rocked up with ten or so dogs and told them that bringing my dogs to work would improve the quality of their life.

[eyeopener]

I never said it was bad to work or to contain your dogs just not sure all day in a crate while someon goes to work or kennelled all wk n only taken out of a weekend is right thing.

I just try & make my dogs life's as full n varied as I possibly can & only contain in crates or smaller runs when necessary but see no prob with dogs inside houses of a day or backyards n decent sized dog runs as long as they are exercised daily n have enough interaction with their family etc.

I just know my dogs would hate to be crated for several hrs everyday n then again at night constantly, of course bitches whelping, sick or injuries dogs are different again.

So do most caring, responsible dog owners, regardless of where they live.

Most of us contain our dogs. All we are now talking about is the size of the containment. Have you seen the U-tube clip of the greyhound on the couch. It doesn't move.. all day!!

And as for what makes a dog "happy"?? I certainly don't agree with the complete social isolation that many urban dogs are subjected to (kept in backyard, not allowed inside, not walked). Frankly I'm surprised more of such dogs aren't stark raving mad.

I am sure they do. Would the greyhound still be on the lounge if he had something to stimulate him? Just playing devils advocate here as I know many a greyhound n yep most r lounge lizards given the chance to be, lol.

[Blackdogs]

It's easy to assume that what we've always done or what we do now is good for our dogs and it's what they want because that's what we want. No one asks the dog. I've been 'asking the dog' in my research and the results so far have disturbed me. I don't have the numbers to draw any conclusions, but honestly, I don't think the way we keep suburban dogs is necessarily very dog friendly. This includes my dogs. They will be noisy in our yard if left there unsupervised for long periods, and they get 90 minutes of exercise and training a day and most of their food in frozen Kongs, bones, and treat dispensing toys. I work from home and they are with me most of the time, but are they happy? Were they happy when I worked in the city and they were cooped up indoors all day every day? I couldn't say. In some Scandinavian countries, it's not really socially acceptable to have dogs if you work full time. It's considered kind of cruel. Wrong? I couldn't say. It makes me very uneasy. Not just because I badly want dogs and full time work, but because so many people here do that it's not on the agenda. What if those northerners are onto something? How can we tell if we won't even consider it? Maybe if we had the data we could petition more businesses to allow dogs to accompany owners to work.

This study sounds very interesting. Have you posted some threads on it that I have missed?

[Diva]

I assume some people over confine /crate their dogs, although I don't know of any personally. I can't think of a management tool that can't be abused, even if unwittinlgy, so staying thoughtful about how we use them is sensible. Mine are only crated at shows, trials and the like, but that is mostly because I just don't need to at home.

I feel sorriest for the backyard dogs no-one ever thinks about, and that see people only when fed. That makes me very sad.

I am sure they do. Would the greyhound still be on the lounge if he had something to stimulate him?

Probably. My sighthounds spend most of their day moving from bed to different bed and back again. They seem pretty happy about it though.

Edited October 14, 2012 by Diva

[mixeduppup]

Hey eyeopener, I think I know you in RL :)

If you're who I think you are then you have some VERY challenging breeds of dogs. I think for your set up on the farm and the dogs you have you've done a really good job at containing them and still giving them what they need in terms of freedom. Sadly not everyone has the land and set up you have and also have dogs that can be challenging for different reasons, separation anxiety, over guarding by barking, howling, digging, fence jumping etc and because of where they live (suburbia or townships) leaving for work and leaving this dog free is asking for trouble. a dog on a farm if it escaped would probably stick around but with all the smells and noises in a built up area, it's going to take off. When I go away for periods longer than 5 hours I lock my kelpies up because the guy across the paddock has sheep and I'd hate for my dogs to bark non-stop at the sheep or hurt themselves trying to get at them, or heaven forbid somehow escape and get shot chasing the sheep.

Most people here on DOL are very aware of what their individual dogs need in ways of exercise and stimulation, just because they have a breed that is known for their high energy doesn't mean their particular dog requires the same activity as another of that breed. I understand where you're coming fro though in relation to dogs being locked up most of the day and then not getting adequate activity to work off the excess energy and I also don't agree with that. I honestly however don't think it's a problem on this particular forum but I know some American forums advocate crating for extended periods of time.

Edited October 15, 2012 by mixeduppup

[megan_]

It's easy to assume that what we've always done or what we do now is good for our dogs and it's what they want because that's what we want. No one asks the dog. I've been 'asking the dog' in my research and the results so far have disturbed me. I don't have the numbers to draw any conclusions, but honestly, I don't think the way we keep suburban dogs is necessarily very dog friendly. This includes my dogs. They will be noisy in our yard if left there unsupervised for long periods, and they get 90 minutes of exercise and training a day and most of their food in frozen Kongs, bones, and treat dispensing toys. I work from home and they are with me most of the time, but are they happy? Were they happy when I worked in the city and they were cooped up indoors all day every day? I couldn't say. In some Scandinavian countries, it's not really socially acceptable to have dogs if you work full time. It's considered kind of cruel. Wrong? I couldn't say. It makes me very uneasy. Not just because I badly want dogs and full time work, but because so many people here do that it's not on the agenda. What if those northerners are onto something? How can we tell if we won't even consider it? Maybe if we had the data we could petition more businesses to allow dogs to accompany owners to work.

or maybe if we had the "data" we'd be another step closer to no dog ownership, because someone has decided it's best we not owns dogs at all, heaven forbid some dogs are unhappy.

I'm sure work would be happy if I rocked up with ten or so dogs and told them that bringing my dogs to work would improve the quality of their life.

Should we do no research in case we get answers we don't like?

I wouldn't want no dog ownership, but I do wish we adopted more of the Scandinavian attitude that dogs are a privilege and unless you are prepared to put in the hard yards to give them a good life then you really shouldn't be owning one. Sure would beat the "keep the kids entertained for the holidays" attitude.

I'm sure my dogs would prefer it if I didn't work, however I'm comfortable that they live fairly varied and happy lives. They get walks and training daily, go to agility and obedience (even though I don't trial). They have dog walkers for when I work long hours.

However, I know many dogs in suburbia that would be very lucky to get a walk a few times a week. I'm not talking about old dogs here - young, could be active dogs. Often their owners say 'All he does is sleep all day/he's so lazy etc" - yip, because he is bored out of his brain. If there was absolutely nothing to do 24/7 I'd most probably sleep too.

Mine get the run of the house and the yard (dog door). They aren't destructive and don't fight, so I see no reason to confine them. Yes - it is a risk letting them outdoors, but I feel the enjoyment that they get pottering outside outweighs the risk. My boy spends most of his time indoors, but my girl can potter around the yard on her own for hours on end. I work from home one day a week and it has improved the quality of my life and theirs.